Nationalism vs Globalism - 2nd. Response to @vieira

profitgenerator (68)in #politics • 7 years ago (edited)

So I have been having a conversation with @vieira about Nationalism vs Globalism it seems like we have some misunderstandings, so here is the conversation so far:

The past military history of Europe has been pretty much market by German domination. Ironically, Germans fighting other Germans.

Talking that Germany has been the evil of the European millennium or just saying that the Holy Roman Empire Germanic are Germany, is false.

You are mis-quoting me, I said that Germans were doing it not necessarily Germany as the current country that is. I was referring to German culture, which has some good things in it, but a lot of bad things as well.

It’s undeniable that the Holy Roman Empire was Germanic: Heiliges Römisches Reich, it had a German Kaiser elected by the member states, it was an elective monarchic empire basically.

Prussia was a merger of northern Germanic states in the 14th-15th century Brandenburg and the Duchy of Prussia, member and the most influential state, and the only de-facto successor of the Holy Roman Empire after Napoleon dismantled it. Originally originating from elements of the Teutonic Order culture which was a weird combination of Germanic Paganism and Catholicism.

The Nazis used many Paganistic elements from inspired from the Teutonic Order as illustrated in this clip:

Although according to Wikipedia the order itself was surpressed, nontheless the symbolism and the paganistic rituals were very much practiced by the Nazis.

The first Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire was Charlemagne, it was an Elective Germanic Empire.

Ironically the EU is pretty much modeled after that, it’s also kind of like an elective empire under German domination.

No wonder the EU loves Charlemagne so much that they literally hand out the Charlemagne Prize to the politician of the year that does the most to advance the EU’s agenda:

If you speak then of the Germanic tribes or peoples, we will have to say that all the European nations have had Germanic elites and rulers since the fall of the Roman Empire, from Spain to Russia, through all the European countries, including the United Kingdom.

Most of them did. Royalties have inter-married and most royalties from Europe are actually Germanic. The House of Windsor (British Monarchy) for example is actually the descendants of the Germanic House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.

The House of Romanov (Russian Tsar) is also the descendants of the Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp and House of Oldenburg.

Europe has literally been mostly under Germanic domination since the fall of the Roman Empire with few exceptions.

By removing the barriers of countries, large German industries tend to impose on much less developed industries in other countries.

Not just that but they actively get encouraged by the regulations. Free trade is not immoral, but it’s not even free trade as opposed to protectionism. It’s actually Germanic protectionism imposed on other countries.

The regulations are not impartial, they definitely favor Germanic capital over other capital.

You should not be so sure about that…

Alright I didn’t know that. I knew that the De-Nazification stopped around the early 50’s, which might be justifiable since the Treaty of Versailles has spawned Hitler so unreasonable penalty might spawn another extremist in the future, so perhaps you don’t want to punish the German people too hard in order to avoid further retaliation.

But this is not what happened, it isn’t just that the De-Nazification has stopped, they actually put back the Nazis into high level positions around the early 50’s.

Most convicted war criminals got 4-5 years of easy sentence and then they were put back into high level positions, like Fritz Ter Meer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_ter_Meer

And many others, they literally put back war criminals into high ranking positions. This was very disgusting.

So it’s one thing that you don’t punish Germans too harsh, which is reasonable since about 61.03% of the population DID NOT support Hitler in the 1933 elections, why punish them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_March_1933

But to actually put back NAZIS in high ranking positions after the Holocaust is just absolutely horrendous. How do you explain that?

Of course, the atrocities committed in the holocaust are not quantifiable in mathematical numbers like money, German reparations should not be even in money, I tried that would be to buy the forced labor done by the Jews and it does not seem right to me.

It should be a reasonable compensation and financial support but it should also be supportive of the existing Jewish communities in Europe. Most Holocaust survivors are now old, they need special care and especially attention from the community.

In 2007 about 30 Holocaust survivors met at the Auschwitz memorial to discuss the post WW2 Nazi involvement that I have been just describing above, they were totally ignored by the media….

Most people don’t even know about the magnitude of the Holocaust, they have just started emphasizing it recently, but I remember when I was in school for example in the 80’s-90’s the Holocaust was barely mentioned and there were many massive Nazi atrocities committed in this region that I haven’t even heard about in school, I had to research them later.

How can people have a discussion about the history of Europe if tragedies like these are not emphasized on in the media or in education?

There is still a massive Nazi coverup going around that needs to be exposed. So yes the Holocaust survivors above all need their voice to be heard, and let them explain how did it all happen from their perspective so that people can understand the dark history of Europe to make sure it’s never repeated again.

But now I ask you, to know that it is not a matter of double standards; What other country in history has paid reparations for wars? Did France pay reparations for Napoleon? Did Russia pay the Jews for the persecutions that you claim they committed? Will the United States pay reparations for Nagaski, Hiroshima or for putting Americans with Japanese ancestry in concentration camps?

I am all in for it. History was definitely white-washed and censored. Yes it should all be exposed.

Well of course nobody will hold Napoleon or Genghis Khan responsible for the plunder and disaster they have caused, but the least we can do is to have a factual history without propaganda and disinformation.

What did happen and why did it happen so that we can ensure that it will never happen again.

Definitely the biggest gift we can give to the world is to stop the violence, if that can be stopped then history will just be looked back as a dark dream.

That is why it’s important to pursue Libertarian/Voluntary political goals, it’s the only good thing that can happen.

I do not really know the in-depth situation of each of these countries, but the reality is that currently they are very bad. If you tell me that the fault of his malaise is not for the British, what makes me think then that the reason for the welfare of Singapore, Hong Kong or Australia is British responsibility?

I don’t know the details either. Perhaps it was just random luck, or perhaps the strategic location of Hong Kong from a commerce standpoint is what made it so prosperous. Nontheless the British Navy did help that out.

Yeah I think you are the Anti-Semite here.

Is that the old reliable one? Now it turns out that I am anti-Semitic, what a surprise!

Well you are the one that keeps bringing up the Jewish-Bolshevism myth and claiming that Stalin was Jewish when it’s obviously an absurdity.

In 5 minutes of research you can debunk this myth, yet you failed to do that, so what is the explanation then?

I am quite libertarian, I do not discriminate of any kind, none, I am not anti-Jewish, or pro-German or anything of that rubbish with which you can label me. I am pro-truth and anti-lie.

Then why are you promoting well known lies like the Jewish-Bolshevism myth?

I only repeat what I have learned in reading history, and just as the Nazis were Germans, I am pretty sure that the socialists, the ideologues and their main promoters were Jews. In fact, that is why they had enough problems at the time, where true Anti-Semitism was present and being Jewish publicly in a European nation was seen as negative. So they had to hide their ethnic origins so as not to be discriminated against.

Well have you considered that maybe the history books are corrupted?

Again you are still clinging to the anti-semitic Jewish-Bolshevism nonsense when I proved to you earlier that about 1-2 Bolsvheviks were Jewish and the rest of them were not. Bolshevism was not Jewish.

There were Jewish leftist at the time like Rosa Luxemburg but they vehemently opposed the Bolsheviks.

Everyone hated the Bolsheviks, the Aristocrats, the religious Jewish community in Russia and even the farmers. They violently seized power and had very low popularity in many zones. Just like Hitler only had about 40% support, the Bolsheviks had even less, I believe Lenin had something like 25% or something like that.

I do not think it was a concentration camp for them, since most of them were not there.

Start reading here, the Jews had a very hard history in Russia:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/siberia

The Tsar sent Jews to Siberia to become manual laborers, and they also sent Jewish convicts there in exile, it was basically like a labor camp. A very sad and harsh history of Anti-Semitism well before Stalin. Stalin made it a lot worse.

The Soviets did not attack the Nazis, but it was the other way around, unless you tell me that the British pushed the Nazis against the Soviets, what you mean is meaningless.

They did, recent declassified documents prove:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html

Stalin had a dilemma whether to ally with Hitler against the UK and France or whether to ally with them against Hitler. He finally decided to turn against Hitler, but it was very close of becoming an ally with him.

From before and even during his term, Hitler felt an atrocious and vehement revulsion against the Bolsheviks, wrote it in Mein Kampf and applied it during his term.

That was just theather. The geo-political game is complex, they can ally with their worst enemies or backstab their best friends.

As they say there are no allies in politics only common interests.

It’s like in Orwell’s 1984, they literally change their enemies and friends every 50 years, and then they forget about it totally. I described this here: