Should gene editing technology be used to remove the violent predisposition?

in #politics6 years ago (edited)

Nikolas Cruz
By Broward County Sheriff's Office, Florida / Oficina del Alguacil del Condado de Broward, Florida [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons

In my previous post on the topic titled "Why I do not currently favor gun control as an effective policy to prevent mass shootings" of mass shootings I presented a unique solution to the problem which I have not seen duplicated anywhere else or mentioned by anyone else. So this post is to continue that line of thought. It has been my experience through debate that most gun control advocates are ideological. This ideological thinking narrows the solution space artificially so that there cannot be a real debate or exploration of possible long term solutions. The effectiveness (or lack of effectiveness) of policies is pretty much ignored in these cultural disputes (I do not call them political debates), and the result is typically I see two sides.

Gun hoarders vs gun confiscators

The two sides in this cultural dispute are the gun hoarders which include supporters of the NRA which seeks to protect the rights of US Citizens to hoard guns, and actual gun hoarders who only make up 3% of the population but who own almost half the guns in the country. I will make the statement that gun control which does not include confiscation remains and has always been ineffective in the United States. There are probably more guns than there are people in the United States so any ban without mass confiscation and harsh punishment for underground manufacturing will in my opinion be ineffective (based on current data which shows no effectiveness).

The human being is the weapon and we can deactivate the genes responsible

The stance I take which in my opinion has benefits beyond any solutions being offered by the supporters of gun confiscation is to take the opportunity to look at the actual source of the problem. Gun violence including mass shootings happen because some human being desires to hurt or kill as many people as they can. This requires a person whom most reasonable people would consider to be mentally ill. This can also be a person who is impetuous, who did not think about their actions fully, as is often the case of people under age 25, but there is no guarantee that even people over 50 will have the brain wiring to not be vulnerable to this behavior.

Nikolas Cruz and Stephen Paddock had vastly different ages. This is why I think the policies of raising the age limit are window dressing to make it seem as if politicians are trying to do something even though there is no evidence or data I've seen which shows clearly that 19 year olds are more likely to be mass shooters than 60 year olds. It seems being a white male is more heavily correlated than being under 21, so for this I see it is going to more than likely be completely ineffective. I'm not completely against the policy because why not let every solution be tried and analyze the results but then I don't have my hopes up.

The one way to reduce violence in society in an effective manner (if genetics really do play a role) is to allow by law everyone to actually know their genetics. If people know they have MAOA and CDH13 which in scientific studies has been linked to violent criminal activity then maybe the people who know themselves well enough to know they are vulnerable to violence can edit their genes so as to deactivate or block these two specific genes. Maybe screening for these two genes makes more rational sense than to ban the instruments of violence.

MAOA and CDH13 (the killer genes)

I do not make the claim that genes make people a killer. I do not claim that if people do not have these genes that they cannot kill or be violent. The point here is that these genes create a known predisposition to extreme levels of violence that people without these genes perhaps for reasons we do not yet understand are not as prone toward. In the scientific paper titled: "Genetic background of extreme violent behavior" they reveal which genes are most closely linked to extreme violence. These genes can be shut off and in fact, biohackers who have access to know what their genes are can shut these genes off.

The biohacking solution to violent crime (including mass shootings)

The biohacking solution may or may not work. In my opinion all who support gun confiscation who are also transhumanists should contemplate what they would do if they had their genome sequenced to discover they had these genes associated with violence. If you discovered you had these genes would you edit them out? If you decide to edit them out would you do it in the permanent way which passes down through generations (such as with germ line therapy) or would you do it in the temporary way which does not pass down?

The biohacking solution does not require any government permission. It merely requires access to the information necessary to make a decision. Do you want to maintain the risk that someday you could do something extremely violent or do you want to remove that risk? If you see MAOA and CDH13 as genetic vulnerabilities then why not shut them off and reduce your own risk and the risk to people around you? If you have a child, and that child is told they have these genes, would you allow that child to make the decision to keep or remove these genes?

Conclusion

American society is based on a punishment culture. We have mass incarceration because the first solution we take to most problems is to find someone to blame and then lock them up. The result is we have a lot of people locked up, but the problems remain. The war on drugs in particular resulted in many Americans locked up, creating multi-generation cycles of poverty, and it did not reduce violence, or access to drugs. The Silk Road was shut down, the creator locked up for a life sentence, and this did not and will never reduce access to drugs. In fact, from a harm reduction approach it may have been the case (I do not have the data yet to prove it) that Silk Road reduced the violence necessary to maintain a drug trade. This lowering of violence in my opinion is a good thing, but then is it the case that any amount of arrests or confiscation will prevent people determined to abuse drugs from being able to do so? I have this same skepticism about the gun laws, where mass confiscation will require a government agency to receive massive funding, to kick in doors, to conduct complex sting operations, and to basically target the 3% of the population who are the gun hoarders.

I do not see gun hoarders willingly giving up their guns for confiscation but I could be wrong. On the other hand the biohacking approach is extremely low risk, low violence, does not encourage mass incarceration, does not require mass confiscation, and may also as a side effect reduce violence in the long term including mass shootings. This is not likely to satisfy those who are determined to have mass confiscation but I present this as part two of my initial solution. The gun confiscation solution I see as the solution which will lead to the most bloodshed (statistically likely to be more than the bloodshed from the mass shootings so far). For that reason it is difficult for me to get behind a policy which I know will require violence to enforce it, require years of arrests possibly on the same level of the war on drugs, and create a large black market for guns. Finally, biohacking as an approach to diminishing violence could potentially reduce it at the source (the genes responsible for making people predisposed to it in the first place) and while this may not prevent it all the time, we can combine this with a less warrior oriented culture to perhaps over time reduce the desire of people to collect guns, and or hurt other people.

References

  1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-it-yourself_biology
  2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinder_(biohacking)
  3. https://www.voanews.com/a/second-man-undergoes-gene-editing/4242428.html
  4. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/18/professor-george-church-nebula-genomics-interview
  5. https://steemit.com/life/@dana-edwards/why-i-do-not-currently-favor-gun-control-as-an-effective-policy-to-prevent-mass-shootings
  6. https://www.nebulagenomics.io/

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I don't think we should start breeding ourselves like we do our animals, it's very much reminiscent of Hitler's idea of a Master Race. Look into the history serial killers and you will see two things continually popping up and that is child abuse/neglect and, or some sort of traumatic brain injury. I would have to assume the same to be true of mass murderers and spree killers.

I'm not saying these things automatically make you a killer nor am I denying there may be some genetic predisposition to violence of this type. What I'm saying is this is one more step towards designer children. We already have abortions being done simply because a child is the wrong gender, in some countries by force, or when some sort of "abnormality" such as down syndrome is suspected. It's truly a scary thought to me.

You do realize humans select who to breed with and who not. So it's always been a matter of selection of who to breed with. The problem with Hitler isn't that he let humans select but that sterilization was used to reduce the ability of humans to select. It was to take away options not to add more, and it came from the top down by government.

If you decide to shut off or erase one of your genes who should be able to stop you?

It's not about who is there to stop someone, but what it could lead to, there's just some things better left alone.

Also I think there is a huge difference between two human beings procreating because of a genuine sexual desire rather than being bred like dogs, killing the undesirables and encouraging breeding between the most "pure" or sitting down at a lab and checking off what genes to remove/replace from your future offspring or deciding to abort one that is wrong

Then you shouldn't edit your genes. You can't stop me and and others from editing ours. If it means leaving to go to a country where you can't do anything about it then it's just going to happen one way or another. And this in my opinion is a human right, to have that autonomy.

Human beings get to decide who to reproduce with. If a woman does not want to have offspring with the local Hitler then she has the right to abort the child. If a child or adult has genes which make them vulnerable to problems then they ought to have the right to deactivate it. Would you let someone with a disease suffer when they can edit their genes to live longer?

Gene editing does not work like how you describe in your post. There is no killing involved. Technology has advanced now to the point where they can either cut out the bad genes using a sophisticated splicing technique, or temporarily turn off the undesired genes in a non-permanent manner.

I am all for giving this level of control to individuals to determine their own destiny rather than to leave it up to chance and their genes.

Aw comon... Lets get weird! Chop up those genes.
This is how we future. Even if we turn into strange reptiles, it'll be so cool.

alien oh yeah.gif

I saw a vid the other day about a biology major that cured his extreme lactose-intolerance with "biohacking."

He hasn't turned green or scale-y yet, but there's still hope...

Reptile People 2018

The human being is the weapon and we can deactivate the genes responsible

Most dangerous statement of all time. If they are able to somehow take that gene out that is responsible for violence they will be able to do with you what they want.

The civilized modern world never fails to show me that it can degenerate even further.

If I'm able to find out I have the genes for violence and I decide to deactivate these genes then there is nothing you or they can do about it. I say let the individual decide and give complete autonomy to the person who must live with the genes. If certain genes make a person more likely to be a violent criminal and they want to reduce their risk of that then all solutions in my opinion should be put on the table and the best solution for the individual should be chosen by the individual.

Apply this to Planned Parenthood and abortion, and the revolting fact that for centuries its been a room of old men deciding what is legal and illegal for individuals (females) to do with their own bodies.

I agree with Valor, it's awesome in theory, just like how AI could maybe solve a bunch of problems that plague a vast majority of people but is most likely going to be used to benefit the elite until civics & governance catches up with technology.

This is the exact same argument I'm using here. People, children, who have discovered they have the genes to make it easy for them to be extremely violent, should in my opinion have the option to shut these genes off, if the technology exists to do so.

Gene editing exists, so the technology allows it. Yet no one discusses it, and so people are expected to basically live their lives with a clear genetic predisposition which could put their lives at risk or their freedom at risk? I don't get it.

Yes it is true that the genes do not determine outcomes. Some kids have these genes and never become violent as adults. But this is a matter of stats and probabilities. DIY gene editing (biohacking) is not something only for the elite, I mean the genome sequencing still is because it costs around $1000 but the price is coming down very fast and eventually all of us will have our genes sequenced for nearly free. What to do then?

Technology & Science has led us to a spiritually dead world of comfort, meaninglessness and stupid people.

It is human nature to be curious and to learn more, however, gene editing is a step too far in the wrong direction.

Cannot forbid people to learn more tho, so it will never stop till the masturbatory western civilization destroys itself (which it is already doing).

It's been a while since I last read Huxley's Brave New World. Maybe I should pick it up again? What's great in science-fiction isn't always that smart in reality, though.

Dang, I love the topics you pick :) I disagree with bio-hacking simply because that is right up there with Hitler's agenda. I think it boils down to parents need to be parents, not their child's "buddy" (I hate when I hear a parent call their child "buddy". No one likes a feral animal whether it is a dog or cat, so why is society letting their children be feral. When a child is undisciplined, make their own rules, not taught to respect, no consequences for their actions, the result is unfavorable. I agree with you that guns need to stay. It's just simply many years of bad parenting imo.

Sir! Is science evolved enough to edit genes I don't think so... Else I think gun confiscation is a better option.. What u think

Definitely think gun control is the better option haha! But I'd hope that it goes hand in hand with the demilitarization of America's local police forces and control of their oppression of marginalized minority communities.

The majority of violent crime is committed by a small group of anti-social, repeat offenders and researchers sought to find out why? 'Cos someone keeps letting them out of gaol perhaps? Or is that too simple?
I my opinion i think that If parents do their duty & teach their kids respect of other people & fear of the law & reinforce this message daily as they are growing up , then this won't happen or will happen very much less. I mean ... what do parents think they are there for ??? The problem these days is, common sense really isn't common enough.

For me it is too dangerous for everyone

Having a gene means nothing. Its the expression of that gene that matter.

Your environment is what controls your gene expression. Healthy behaviors encourage healthy gene expression. The opposite is true for unhealthy behaviors.

The biohacking solution has to be a voluntary decision. It will be a brave new world if we give the state power to do medical interventions against people without their consent. Especially when the intervention is against a person's own genes.

There are genes involved with addiction too. It is shown people who have these genes for alcoholism for example are more likely to die from alcoholism. If these people could shut these genes off should they?

If you have a gene which makes you vulnerable to an early death or harder than average life why would you not shut the gene off? If you have a gene which could get people killed why would you not shut it off?

This is slightly off topic, but if recall I remember you mentioning the AGRS token back many months ago. I was informed recently that Bittrex is going to delist it. If you are still a holder of AGRS, is there a safe wallet that we can transfer any AGRS to?

thak you follow you blog.

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