RE: I don't owe you anything... You may form a gang and take it by force, but that still does not mean I OWED it.
Sure its the same thing.
Giving up part of the revenue your labor creates to your employer is not voluntary either, you have to do it or else the employer would not give you a job.... I guess everyone could become self employed unfortunately that is not realistic in our current economy.... worker coops are a more realistic solution to this problem.
Your labor creates revenue. Your employers takes part of that revenue as profit for themselves.
You earn an income. The government takes part of that income for itself.
These are both forms of taxation/theft, the major difference is at least when the gov takes your money you know it will spend 100%+ of it back into the economy and create jobs. When your employer takes your money a lot of it will end up sitting in bank accounts not doing anything, and that is why we have the most unequal wealth distribution in human economic history http://fortune.com/2017/01/16/world-richest-men-income-equality/
Let's agree to disagree. I see a huge difference, you do not.
Ok, yep, there is no difference to me, I think the whole picture needs to be discussed of how money flows through the economy. The gov is not the only one who taxes/steals from people. Private corporations/employers do the same thing. If they did not our economy would not look as it does today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States
Different people are skilled and motivated differently. I might be glad to go to work daily, with no responsibility to be sure the work was there to perform, rather to have a secure "job". Others are more motivated to take risk, or to develop skills that pay more. As a business owner, I had to make payroll to keep good employees, even when I had to do without pay for my family. My sales people did not have to worry if the product would be there, and my "producers" did not have to worry if I would find them useful work. Every year there was a dry period, and the only one who did not get paid was my family. I believed in my ideas, and I was blessed by Providence to make it through. Every man got paid what we agreed upon, dry season or not. Was that a tax???
My intention was not to rant against businesses. All businesses and business owners behave differently (some more successful than others). I was simply explaining how the economy works and how money flows through the economy. The reason the rich get richer is because the people who perform labor give up part of the revenue they generate to them. That is just the math behind how the economy works. If you look at the overall big picture of the state of the US economy today (not just USA many other countries also), you can see where most of the money that the Gov and the Federal Reserve (and banks) have created has ended up. The reason most of the money is at the top is because that is how the economy is designed to work. So complaining about gov taxes is only a part of the overall problem.
I see focusing on wealth equality as just kicking the can down the road. It is paying attention to the smoke and mirrors while ignoring the magician. There are issues of power and influence whether money is involved or not. Money just happens to be one of the easiest of tools to express that, but it is certainly not the only one.
Though I do think the way money is used needs to be explored. I don't give a shit about WEALTH equality. I only care about equality of opportunity. The only issue I have with wealth is when it is used for undue influence. Yet when I get around to tackling my perspective on how I think we could attack this that'll give you more meat to latch onto and talk about. I'm still thinking about it at the moment.
In my opinion the way our economy works and the distribution of wealth is the reason our gov works the way it does. The US gov is completely corrupt (not just US many gov around the world) because when a small group of the population has all the money they buy and influence politicians with money to create laws/regulations that benefit them...