Are We in the Matrix?

in #philosophy7 years ago (edited)

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While pondering on what to blog about today, I reflected on an interesting chat I had today with @kyriacos about this post: There Is No Such Thing As Free Will.

The post drew quite a bit of conversation, most of it with contradictory views. However, kyriacos and I had an interesting side conversation about it (see below). This post caught my attention because I study this kind of stuff and I read books like “The Power of Your Subconscious Mind” and “Power vs. Force”. I’ve been accused of being a bit weird because of it but I find matters of the mind, heart, soul and spirit very fascinating.

Here’s the conversation:

@amarie: Wow @kyriacos, thought-provoking post. I do believe though that we have free-will but yes it can be influenced by circumstances or events. But that is not arguable. This is a cause-and-effect universe. Every effect has a cause whether known or unknown and whether seen or unseen. This does not negate that we are free to will things and to make choices with whatever options are before us or however the deck is stacked for or against us. It's just like in The Matrix when Morpheus gave people the choice of taking the Blue pill or the Red pill, even though the Matrix controlled everything. Free will exists, to a point, but it exists just the same. My 2 cents...

kyriacos: If everything is bound by cause and effect then how do you know which actions decision belong to you? Neo was found there to make that decision because a series of events predetermined that course of action. That act of choice itself was not even his.

amarie: You don't know all the time. But SOMETHING causes everything. Neo still could have gone against the grain and chosen the Blue pill, but he was compelled to take the Red pill due to the series of events that led him to the decision in the first place and the type of person he was. But he still had the power of the choice. Granted, if he had chosen the Blue pill, then another series of events would have taken place. Predetermined? My view is that each choice has a preset outcome, just like with a computer. For example, If I hit the space bar, I'm going to get a space on the screen, unless there's a malfunction with the keyboard or the computer. If we think about that, we see that everything revolves around that concept.

kyriacos: If something causes everything all the time then everything Neo did was predetermined.

amarie: Ahh. But my point is every little thing we do must have some sort of predetermined outcome, depending on the choices that we make. I look at it like a tree with branches. The branches represent paths based on choices. Each path leads to a "pre-programmed" outcome via an event or it could be a series of events, and each of those series of events have their own branches and each of those branches have branches, and so on. So, there are literally an infinite amount of outcomes for each path, branch, and sub-branches, to infinity. But, my theory is that each path leads to some sort of pre-determined outcome.

For example, if someone chooses to walk out into the street in front of a moving truck, then the outcome of that chosen path will be being hit by the truck, but branches of that include death, paralysis, being missed by the truck, etc. Or one could choose not to walk in front of the truck, which would lead to an alternate path, but there is still something waiting on that path as well. We can choose because of free will, which includes the ability of knowing right from wrong, etc., but choices have outcomes, which are predetermined or pre-programmed, like with a computer. This stuff is deep. This is the kind of stuff I spend time studying. It's all so fascinating!

So are we in a Matrix for real?

I always said the concept in the movie The Matrix is really not that far-fetched.

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The principle of causality is not incompatible with the existence of free will.

From a physical point of view, the principle of causality is a statement regarding the time ordering of events which have some causal relation between them. Simply put, it states that effects cannot chronologically precede causes. If you take time as an absolute concept, this is a rather trivial idea, but in a relativistic model of the universe, which requires dropping the notion of time being absolute, different observers can make very different reconstructions of the history of a given set of events. What they absolutely need to agree on, in order for causality to be in place, is in finding causes happening before their respective effects.

Now this principle of causality is not synonymous with determinism, particularly causal determinism. Briefly, it states that every single event in the universe is a necessary consequence of a set of preexisting conditions which may be regarded as the causes of the event, and the event their effect. And while the principle of causality is profoundly embedded in any formulation of the accessible reality, probably because it reflects a basic feature of the universe, causal determinism is completely put at bay by quantum mechanics' description of the most basic constituents of reality that we know of.

At the quantum level, an event is not a necessary consequence, but a compatible consequence of a set of preexisting conditions. For a given configuration of a system at some given instant, there is not a single necessary point in configuration space for the system to move to. In a not very rigorous way, one can think of the system as accumulating potentials for evolving into a (possibly large) set of points, from which one is eventually chosen according to a probability distribution. Even though there are causal relations between events (in the sense of the principle of causality), there is no causal determinism in quantum mechanics, at least not in the classical sense.

Now, how does this relate with free will? A completely farfetched argument would be that the inherent uncertainty underlying the quantum mechanics' form of causality proves that there is free will. I think it should be easy to see how this is an unreasonable stretch. However, quantum mechanics does tell us that, at the most basic level that we are aware of, reality is not really deterministic, but more of a stochastic nature. If we assume that consciousness and, therefore, volition, operate on the basis of biochemical and electrical processes in neural networks, and that at least some of these processes occur according to quantum rules, then there is a lot of space for some level of non-determinism to be part of consciousness processes.

In summary, even if the classical realm of physics seems completely deterministic, free will might still be perfectly compatible with it, because at the smallest scales the apparently deterministic reality in which we live is actually a very fuzzy succession of probable configurations and outcomes.

If we are or not living inside the Matrix, that seems to be an entirely different question. If one can test this hypothesis, then it should be worth trying. Until then, I believe the question to be of no relevant consequence. If we were indeed living inside a Matrix and it was inaccessible in any way to us, whatever we might learn about how this simulated universe worked would be effectively indistinguishable from learning the same thing about a non-simulated one. So, give me some way to test it or just disregard it altogether.

Interesting. My view of a real matrix is not like in the movie with the physical computers and harvesting the people for energy. My thought is more of an organic matrix of sorts. I think the "concept" of that in the movie is not too far fetched from life as we know it and believing in a higher power that governs it all. There are so many things in life where we can categorize people who have proverbially taken the red or the blue pill. Human nature falls into those categories. I think there are just many parallels in the movie with real life, but no I do not believe that we are actually in a physical matrix made by machines that have taken over the world. But then again...who knows? ...thought-provoking.

Thank you I love matrix stuff!

The concept of us living inside of a matrix has fascinated me for a long time and is something I spent quite a bit of time studying.

I believe that in our search for answers, humans tend to over complicate things.

There are many layers that make up the matrix which collectively simulate what we think of as real.

These range from very complicated which we try to understand with quantum physics, to the very simple.

The easiest one to see is the one created by the Power Structures for the purpose of social control.

For example power structures like the Deep State use tools like the mainstream media, Hollywood and other outlets to create a reality that favors their agenda.

We think it's reality, but it's not...it's distorted reality.

As soon as I gather up some more subscribers I will be writing quite a bit about this.

Cheers,

Michael

This is true. There are many layers of the movie that match much of what goes on in real life.

I hit post before I finished that post...I updated it.

Yes, very much like the movie except we are connected to the "machine" that sustains the matrix at this level psychologically (energetically) instead of physically by being inside a pod.

Yes. This is sort of how I see it. Have you read "Power vs. Force"? It explains a lot about collective consciousness and levels of consciousness. Great read.

Maybe we don't quite live in the Matrix, because the Matrix system was centralized. Maybe we live in a predetermined simulation, but it is decentralized--sort of like a crytpocurrency-- there is no central governor, and no agents in black suits making sure we stick with the script.

@quintree Maybe the Agent Smiths are disguised as something else like whatever is causing such a rise in chaos and evil in the world. I believe Prince called it "the elevator". I do like your cryptocurrency analogy. Interesting. And as far as a central governor, what about the higher power? Just like in the Matrix. Arsenio Hall used to say, "Things that make you go...hmmmm."

Well I am the chosen one ;)

And I'm the Oracle! LOL!

We could be. What about the basilisk?? Also, how did you get $17.06 with 4 votes?

Hi @spun. What's a basilisk? And IDK. shrug

check out rokos basilisk

The Matrix is really not that far-fetched.Spirit of Peace.jpg@amarie Thank you please look at the Videos

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