RE: "Islamophobia" or Blasphemy Law By Stealth?
No The Catholic problems with the IRA were over territory and nothing to do with religious doctrine.
If you read the Quran and hadiths and the life of the prophet and his companions you will see what i mean.
I think terrorists do things for lots of complex reasons, but they use the teachings of muhammad to justify those acts. The problem isn't with muslims per se but with the theology they are taught. Yes, some cause terror due to wars in their homelands but that doesn't explain British born and bred killing their own.
You can't get away from the fact that these people are trying to emulate muhammad. They expressly killed people for drawing cartoons of muhammad, how is that in any way connected to wars in the middle east?? Its not. It's connected to Islamic ideology that denies free speech and punishes blasphemers with the death penalty. If you think Islamists cause terror just because of foreign policy, you are wrong. I've studied the subject for 15 years.
Your comment about the bible shows your disconnect I'm sorry. Irish catholics were fighting for a united Ireland, nothing to do with religion. Although i'd say the catholic religion is also full of corruption and responsible for a lot of pain.
I know that they are not representative of the whole of Islam but they do follow the same theology from the same book.
I don't understand why that comment is incorrect? it's just a statement of fact. They do interpret the same book and sunnas, believe me.
I understand that people have a knee jerk reaction to this subject but i find it easier to remain open minded. I have no axe to grind i have both shia and sunni in my family. Each see each other as apostates and has torn our family in two!
We don't have foreign policy engagements with many of the jihadists who fight. They come from all around the world and fight under the banner of Islam. Next you'll tell me that Muslim Brotherhood are legitimate political party.
It's simplifying a complex situation to say foreign policy is the cause of Islamic terror, it's not.
If you "breaks came on" at the start then you wouldn't have read that my post wasn't about Islam but any religious group that wants special protection status. I'm talking about freedom. My comment about "the book" was merely commenting that the justification comes from the same place. The point is that most religions have gone through a transformation and the passages in their holy scriptures are not used anymore as they were abrogated.My point is, we have to challenge this in a unified and honest manner if we wish to get this right.
Thank you for your comment.
Perhaps you have not read the crap in the Old Testament. Same god of Abraham.
For the record, as that mention of your family may be intended to give your opinion greater weight, thus far my travels have taken me to Moroc, Algeria, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan and Afganistan. So the islamic culture is known to me in many forms.
My take is that both the Irish "problems" and the Islamic struggle were instigated by colonialism. Do you think you would send your best soldier to be intentionally blown up or would you send some dimwit that believes 64 vestal virgins await him? Is that so radically different than having your christian chaplin blessing "your boys" before sending them off to kill or be killed? Did you know that "God is with us" was on German Military belt buckles in WWII? Sounds eerily simular to "In God We Trust" doesn't it? Do you think Hitler believed in god? Do you think those on the board of the Federal Reserve do?
Make no mistake, this is a war. The difference is that this enemy, as opposed to the Irish, are all in... take no prisoners. There will be no negotiated peace unless their lands are left to them to rule how they wish to govern. Yet the Petro Dollar cannot allow that.
This reply is meant to explain my.position. It is not meant to change your mind or continue this debate as we both seem pretty entrenched in our positions.
You may enjoy colonialism exposed in the short video below.
Sincerly wishing you Peace & Love in your life.
Blaming present generations for the ills of past colonisers is very short sighted. Foreign policy is not the reason for islamic exceptionalism I'm afraid. The quran is.
And, no. My comment about my family isn't to give anything any "weight", i don't need it, my arguments stand alone. It was supposed to show you that Islam isn't one united body. Most of the wars in the middle east are shia v sunni, nothing to do with colonialism.
Your comment about the petro dollar has some weight.
I have read the old testament. It's the reason there is a new one. it's called abrogation and enlightenment, something Islam is yet to do and what it must do if there is to be peace.
I have a salafi mosque on my street, i don't need to travel to see militant Islam.
I doubt very much your travels are that recent. I lived in Afghanistan as a kid. I couldn't do it now.
Your comment about people being blessed before battle is a touch disingenuous. Justification for crimes against humanity s lifted directly from the holy Quran and hadiths. You can't equate that to a stupid banner on a dollar bill or soldiers hoping if they die to go to heaven. The quran and hadiths tell them to kill infidels and take their women and children as sex slaves, time after time, amongst thousands of other violent and oppressive gems.
Why should we let a religion treat women in such a manner in the modern age, wherever they are?
it sounds like you think they are right to do as they do?
My post was about the silencing of free speech by using blasphemy law. Maybe you think they have a right to kill people for sins of others but thats how feuds are formed. if you go back way before 9/11 you will find this happening, again and again. Their aim is for sharia to dominate the world, read their literature, it tells you. Islamists from Afghanistan have been shipping heroin to Europe long before 9/11. and they would tell you the aim is to break down western societies. It's very naive to believe this is just a reaction to "colonisation".
The ottoman empire slaughtered 1,000,000 Christian Armenians 100 years ago, for being Christian. That wasn't over colonisation..Read the history of the ottoman empire. The west doesn't hold a monopoly on bloody colonising. The Ottomans slaughtered and colonised the middle east and had designs on Europe! As they do now.
If you think Islam is really just a religion of peace then that's your perogative. if you think they are a bastian of womens rights and minorities thats also your perogative also. But please don't make out this is the fault of colonialism! This has been happening for 1400 years, read the history. The middle east was once Christian. Islam was only stopped when it attacked Europe. Don't shift the blame for their actions to me. i have never colonised anyone. The rich colonised them. It sounds like you endorse their methods and think it is "our" own fault..
If there is a war to be had, i will fight to defend, i don't want my grandchildren living under black flags.
Wars in the middle east are the struggle between shia and sunni and western powers have taken a side. The sunni. But they didn't create the division, that happened in the 4 generations after muhammad.
I agree we will never agree. I have studied the history, not relied on nostalgic trips in a by gone era.
lets agree to drop the subject. I have to correct you when you are wrong though. I live in a salafi neighbourhood...
BTW, I'm not a christian either. i believe in a higher power but not a story made by men.
Have a great day and hope we have the chance to talk over a less divisive subject..
Guess you didn't watch the video. It exposes U$ Colonialism from 2001 till the present. If you think colonialism is restricted to ancient history you are more asleep than first suspected.
Didn't get past the above quote so can't really blame you for missing the 2 minute video. 😎
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I didn't watch it as i understand US exceptionalism and the wars it is waging around the world. But what has that to do with the children of Manchester?
Religions want to force their will on others. I'm afraid you can't get away from fact that the imperialism you mention is driven by mega wealthy liberal elite and nothing to do with the citizens of a nation.. Especially when the political infrastructure has been hijacked so the citizens get no choice on foreign policy. People voted for Trump in the US to keep out an even bigger war monger in Clinton.
Like i told you at the start i have studied this for over 15 years in an advisory capacity. I know what imperialism is and i know all sides have through history, took turns at the colonisation game. You don't think the Ottomans did it??
No one is colonising islamic countries. The rich are fighting wars that benefit them financially and ideologically.
I think it may be you asleep. I'll go back to my previous comment. If you are determined to say, "X are doing it, so it's OK for Y to do it"!
then the feuds will continue forever.
I'm not so sure you understand Islamic exceptionalism and the dogma and literature that keeps it striving for a world caliphate.
Do you just think Islam has only been waging war since colonisation? It hasn't. it's been doing it for 1400 years. It's how the middle east and swathes of Africa became Islamic when they were originally Christian.
How do you think all this happened? Right up to the doorstep of Europe 100 years ago? Because contained in Islamic literature there are passages that tell them they are superior and the rest are infidels at best, or pigs or monkeys. These same books tell them not to stop until sharia encompasses the world. It tells them to not associate with others but to convert them. The same books tell them to throw homosexuals from rooftops and that women and children are a mans property. This "religion" needs to go through the enlightenment and abrogate those passages from their books.
What you see in Iraq, or Afghanistan, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Yemen is Shia fighting with sunni. One supported by Iran and others and sunni Saudi and others. Its a sectarian war and the liberal wealthy elite chose to help one side due to trade interests.
The problem is the religions fault in failing to keep up with progression and not removing the passages from its holy scripture thus allowing fundamentalists to use them to promote Islamic exceptionalism.
Don't you listen to them? They don't quote colonialism they quote islamic scripture.
If you think that withdrawing from all Islamic nations will solve it all, that's another issue. It will leave a lot of dead in its wake.
Thanks for the convo, lets not descend into calling names or questioning each others honesty eh? I say things how i see them and you yours. I'll apologise here and watch your video.
I loosely agree with you on some things. However i don't think you can blame ordinary citizens for the actions of governments that were long ago hijacked by a wealthy liberal elite, giving citizens no real say. Can we agree on that at least??
About as much as an Italian pope has to do with the Irish. The Irish felt more Catholic than English as the Muslim lad feels more allied to their birth culture than the place they were born. My point of the video was to show you colonialism is alive and well and not some historical artifact.
You however seem to want to press your hate for Islam than to seek any real dialogue.
So this ends here for me even though you will probably want to get your last bit of hate speech in. Go for it. Hoped this would not come to an unfollow.
May you find love and compassion for all sentient beings, even those who hold the Koran as sacred.
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I don't hate anybody. hate is a waste of energy and a wasted emotion. I try to understand things then tell them how they are.
Catholics and others were fighting for a united ireland. They didn't use religious dogma to justify their actions, they used ideology taken from marxism and other "freedom fighters". I saw active duty in the "troubles".
I don't care if you follow me or not.
Could you point me to the thing i said that is hateful or untrue? Your narrative is one that says, "blame the messenger, it's easier.
I have love in my life and some of that is with people who read the Quran.
You had to start accusing me of things and then say it's me who needs to get the last word..Rich.
You are another who thinks that muslims by definition must have a different "birth culture" as you called it. Most of the people i know who follow Islam were born in the UK so their culture is British. You may say people we "colonised" have an excuse for attacking us, what about those who come from UK, or Belgium, or France?? Or do they belong to an Uhma where an attack on one muslim is an attack against them all.
Next time you want to make excuses for violence remember the innocent victims, they did nothing wrong..
Have a great day.
In my last comment i asked to drop it there and you had to come back with your hate twaddle. When did facts become hate but in the minds of the weak?
Like i said last time, maybe i'll see you again in a less emotive subject.
Like i told you, i have studied this for over 15 years. I have fact to back up anything i say, my conscience is clear my friend..
Have a good night..
The "hate speech" came into my mind like a noun of its own instead of adjective and noun. My apologies.
My feeling is the cause is much greater a factor than method of motivating the troops. In both cases the targets were/are their respective colonizers. It could be Martians blowing up Elon's Mars Colony and it would be the same colonial catalysts for all three "terrorist" activities from my perspective. TTFN.
I resent the fact you imply that i say things just to cause hate, i don't.
Alot of these people are attacking the places they call home.
It's a mess and i long for a world that isn't controlled by ages old religious doctrine. I long for a sensible world that bans anything that inspires violence, whoever writes it or preaches it.
Exceptionalism is a danger to the free world. people who think themselves superior because of what they believe.
Colonialism is a crime against humanity. It's predominantly done by the wealthy against the poor. Not by religious groups.
Most western empires were in the persuit of wealth, not religious superiority. . There is a distinction to be made.
If you study the religious literature you can see this quite obviously.
I'm sorry that you felt the need to move the convo into the territory of bracketing me as a Tommy Robinson figure. But I'm glad i found that out now at this early juncture.
Thank you for all your comments and for taking the time. Have a great day.