You are viewing a single comment's thread from:

RE: Noam Chomsky: "The general population doesn’t know what’s happening, and it doesn’t even know that it doesn’t know..!!"

in #news8 years ago

shrug It doesn't require much evidence as it's not even that great of a claim. The only people who disagree with the notion that the police's purpose is to uphold liberty and justice is anarchists, so it is very much so a disagreement on an ideologically fundamental level.

OPs claim of knowing some deeper truth that others don't. That is quite a bold claim that requires much substantiation.

If you won't drop something discussed in the past, then at this point I'm just going to label you as obsessive over it and hence forth ignore you. Reasonable enough?

Sort:  

The claim that police were established to uphold liberty and justice is a bold faced lie in the face of facts. Police have been established to round up runaway slaves, the police forces we have today have been founded directly from slave patrols.

The OPs claim is not the issue at all, it is your premise that was entwined into your argument repeatedly, that police were established to uphold liberty and justice. Their purpose aside you pointed to their inception and the why and how of that being legitimate and therefore not a gang, when in fact they are a gang through and thorough, which is why I pointed out that quote about challenging your beliefs from this post, granted right now I've very much successfully hijacked it but it wasn't my intention for that I apologize @stephenkendal, sought to point out that if you live by that ideology it makes you a hypocrite, as you abandoned that discussion first of all, where I challenged your argument, but more importantly I brought evidence supporting the fact that police weren't established to maintain liberty, quite the contrary they were established to maintain slavery.

Couldn't let dead dogs stay dead.
Again, we're at a completely fundamental approach. What you're talking about are "proto-police" forces that the south had before the civil war. Before that time during the colonies, they were equal to bounty hunters and that's it. You're morally bankrupt if you have nothing else to compare them to than things that have been long since gone for a decade+. You've committed an ad hoc plain and simple.

'dead dog' is not an argument, it is a cop out.

He brought this drama from another post way before this. There was no argument intended, nor do I care to continue to discuss with him about this topic. His intent is an obsessive meandering of said topics that, if another stops talking to that should indicate that they're not interested anymore, are more or less frivolous at this point.
I already know his position plain and clear, and we're not going to reach any impasse because he's all the way down on the libertarian scale.

People usually find the game is no fun when they are losing.

And that's where we differ. I don't see any position as "winning" or "losing" in regards to each other. It is a discussion that happens, and when one person gets either tired or frustrated (which in this case I became frustrated with Baah's incessant bringing up of unnecessary drama). Again, there is not going to be any impasse. He's either a stonch right libertarian or an an-cap, and those are positions that I disagree with.
Reading into anything other than that is a stretch.

Being correct is in this instance, is it's own reward. If you are more interested in masturbatory marathons of verbally flogging nonsense than achieving possession of understanding, then, mission accomplished. You seem to think there is no object to the search, and no such thing as facts. Being tired or frustrated has no bearing on the reason, or lack thereof, in the argument. Becoming bored with defending the claims you've made does not render your argument correct. If I have gathered anything from my interactions with @baah, I can say that @baah is neither a STAUNCH right libertarian or an an-cap. This misapprehension further demonstrates a need of learning what words mean. It is clear that there is no desire on your part to gain accurate communication, but only to see how carefully you can misunderstand an argument with which you disagree.

You're reading way into this.
Being tired or frustrated is reason enough to be done with something that has no baring on literally anything else, as it was just a discussion. Again, reading into this as anything other than two opposing positions is a massive stretch.

And whatever baah is or isn't has become more so irrelevant to me now, I realize that. Whatever label it is, we're going to disagree regardless.

Your entire argument is derived from the same fantasy as before, now though you've danced around providing any evidence that police were the result of maintaining liberty, instead you focused on marginalizing the purpose of slave patrols to bounty hunters, and their inception and those implications of their purpose into things that have been long since gone, when nothing is further from the truth as you can see in statistics of cop on black violence.

No they weren't bounty hunters, they were institutionalized:

Colonists in Jamestown, Virginia, first purchased African slaves from Dutch traders in 1619, just a dozen years after the colony’s founding. As the number of slaves grew, so did the white community’s need to police them. Borrowing liberally from Barbadian slave laws, colonists adopted slave patrols as a formal institution by the middle of the 18th century. These were among the first police forces in the colonies.

No, these things have not long been gone:

“Complexion has influenced the focus of law enforcement from this nation’s very beginnings; the first organized police forces, according to police historian William Geller, were the varied slave patrols,” Muwakkil wrote. “Policing in this country has always had the dual purpose of maintaining social order and enforcing the racial hierarchy.”

No ad hoc, plain and simple, it's providing evidence counter to your claim that they were established to maintain liberty. Nothing is further from the truth:

“the literature clearly establishes that a legally sanctioned law enforcement system existed in America before the Civil War for the express purpose of controlling the slave population and protecting the interests of slave owners. The similarities between the slave patrols and modern American policing are too salient to dismiss or ignore. Hence, the slave patrol should be considered a forerunner of modern American law enforcement.”

Law enforcement has never been about maintaining liberty, period, and it certainly isn't about that today. It's about the immorality of imposing the will of people that have the delegated rights that individuals cannot have, nor delegate. Moral bankruptcy is to defend such things and to skirt around such issues, as long as a group of people can do what no individuals are allowed to do, such as impose arbitrary mandates, enforce those mandates, kidnap and murder those that break or resist their mandates, extort wealth through the threat of force or coercion, as long as you are for these things you have no moral ground to stand on, your linchpin is defending immorality.

"As a direct result, a series of riots occurred throughout the 1830s in numerous American cities. Many of these riots were the result of poor living conditions, poverty, and conflicts between ethnic groups. These riots directly illustrated the need for larger and better organized law enforcement. Both the watch systems in the north and the slave patrols in the south began to evolve into modern police organizations that were heavily influenced by modern departments developing in England during the same time (Walker, 1999).

There is nothing more to discuss, as you've brought unwarranted drama by bringing a disagreement on another post to a different place. Good day, and good riddance.

I don't think there's any need to express what you're going to label me especially since the discussion was simply abandoned and not concluded, so whatever you wish to label me isn't my problem at that point then.

Coin Marketplace

STEEM 0.16
TRX 0.17
JST 0.030
BTC 70594.76
ETH 2525.57
USDT 1.00
SBD 2.56