We Can't Agree On Pizza Toppings But We Can Save The Planet?

in nature •  last year


Meta Pizza: You argument is Invalid

Have you ever tried to order Pizza with a group of friends? In 10 minutes the disagreement can escalate to a point where even your friendship might be put under questioning. Yet, somehow, people believe that 7.5 billion people can come together and agree on complicated issues such as vegetarianism, global warming, vaccinations, armed conflicts, money and politics.

People fail to understand that there is no such thing as "We" on this planet. It is a cultural travesty, a common delusion. It does not and cannot apply. "We" do not have the same desires. "We" do not have the same motives. "We" do not share the same passions or histories because we carry unique physiologies that have been shaped gradually from different sets of events.


source

Sure, humans do get together if there are some vested interests about a single issue but this means nothing. The same people are guaranteed to-disagree on plenty of other constituents of that particular issue. There is a reason why political language is so nauseously generic and why religious heresies always seem to multiply.

A group of people come together and let's say agree that gay marriage should be allowed. They push the decision through congress and they make it a reality. They naively cheer "We did it!" when in reality it was not their individual decision that did it. Rather, it was a single common interest about a broad statement "gay marriage should be allowed". The same people disagree on a bunch of other things that involve the very constituents and freedoms of gay marriage such as child adoption, parades and transgenderism just to name the few.



In the same respect the people who claim to fight for protecting the planet do it for different aspects of the issue. Not a single single one of them agreeing in all the details. A vegan might travel 3 times a year with an airplane destroying the ozone layer. At the same time she refuses to eat meat because she is concerned about her carbon footprint. A guy might eat steak twice a week, in his lonely one bedroom apartment while planting trees on the weekend.

Nonetheless, in a meeting with friends — that have 3 kids each on average — the loner might be accused of adding to the pollution of the planet. In reality, having a child is the most polluting action. Another guy eats salads and claims to be vegetarian just to get laid in college. He is also saving the planet by being a hypocrite. All of them care about themselves. Saving the planet comes as an after-effect of their lifestyle. Nobody want to be an asshole so everyone destroys and protects the planet in their own fucked up way.

We always eye-ball the negative aspects of someone else's behavior when we claim that "we try our best". Thing is, everyone does the same thing about us. We just fail to see this because every single one of us is absorbed into their own version of delusion.


The narrative of "We" is a by-product of our primitive tribalism. It is a not logical thought process. It fails when applied in global situations because our individuality shines. "We" are all selfish and self-absorbed either we like it or not. "We" can't save the planet because the planet does not need saving. "We" do.













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Ooo don't be such a pessimist!
People CAN come together through compassion, sufficient knowledge and perspective.
Even though we're a bunch of selfish bastards...
I know I would kill, maim and burn for a bite of that pizza xD

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People CAN come together through compassion, sufficient knowledge and perspective.

and create world wars....

:D

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And can also put together an enormous Ship, or a Platform that rewards content creators..

Oh shit ...pizzas within a pizza. Hot Oven..... that's brilliant.

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pizzaception. Di Caprio's wet dream

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You got it. Full voting power for you brother. Funny stuff :)

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thank you man! :)

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I once had over 50 k in steem...wish i could upvote you with that...i'll get there again and this time i'll keep the coins. By the way thank you for taking the time to write this post.

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it was my pleasure man. hope to see you once more in new heights

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Thanks, all the best to you too.

I've seen what you're talking about, in practice, many times. There was a blanket organisation in Australia that attempted to unite activists. The first onrush of enthusiasm was relatively enormous. There was was one thing though that united everyone, their contempt for the Prime Minister. The signs at the nationally 100 000 rallies (in a country of 28 million that's a significant number) were for all the different causes and issues the then Prime Minister was a threat to. So... after the media bias and lack of immediate change, people went back to focusing on their own issues. I had an umbrella, still do, but people just don't want to band together. For example, asylum seeker advocates have the environment much further down on their list than environmental advocates, and vice versa. Only a few see a common ground, yet for a broader thinker, there is one.
It upsets me that you are right, but I know it to be true.
There is hope though, and we have to keep that attitude.
If your roof has 10 holes in it and you fix one, then another one later, while another hole is appearing, then it's still better than not fixing them at all. That is the only thing that stops me from literally climbing onto a rooftop and using a megaphone to call everyone idiots, and as you say, I don't know what each individual does in their private life. I may be speaking to someone who rightfully believes that I am complacent idiot compared to them.
And then there's the "anti-hatred" activists that protest protests and start swinging at the haters. (and gets global news coverage doing so, and harms the reputation of any movement they are involved in)
Save the forest signs on brand new pieces of painted cardboard. Getting to your gig to play your anti fossil fuel , anti deforestation song, in a van, on a road. Many people seem to forget the privileges that are a direct result of what they are striving to change and balk at being confronted.

Buddhism 101, create change from within first. Then you can start saving the world.

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'Many of us regard ourselves as mildly liberal or centrist politically, voice fairly pleasant sentiments about our poor children, contribute money to send poor kids to summer camp, feel benevolent. We're not nazis; we're nice people. We read sophisticated books. We go to church. We go to synagogue. Meanwhile, we put other people's children into an economic and environmental death zone. We make it hard for them to get out. We strip the place bare of amenities. And we sit back and say to ourselves, 'Well, I hope that they don't kill each other off. But if they do, it's not my fault.'
—Jonathan Kozol, educator and author

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wow, excellent comment. you should male a post about this one.

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I should. Thank you.

Enjoyed a lot your analogies.
Fully agree that Earth doesn't need our help in saving. Its been doing fine before we came and will continue strolling along just fine after us.
"We" is exactly Dunbars number, by-product of tribal history, but I still believe we are capable of "feeling" much more. For example Overview effect astronauts have or experiences during Ayahuasca ceremonies.

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"We" fell fairly enough i believe :)

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"We" think they are exempt from natural laws and like with the first flying machines, built without really understanding the laws of physics, test them by jumping of a cliff.
"We" believe they are flying just because they are not in free fall and are convinced they could rise above the clouds if they could just pedal a bit harder :)
As long as "We" realize the problem is in the machine in time, we actually might not crash :D

So the only thing humanity could hypothetically agree on is that we disagree on absolutely everything, but we operate under the narcissistic delusion that "We can make a difference if we come together in agreement regarding issue A, B, C..."?

No wonder everyone is commenting on the pizza😉!

As someone who eats pizza far too often I feel like the toppings area is still very vague since I tend to eat it alone, lol. However, I do also feel the need to recommend comedians George Carlin's opinion on the subject of people wanting to quote "Save The World".

Though his approach on the subject is judgemental, the guy made some interesting points on mankind's position on that.

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As someone who eats pizza far too often I feel like the toppings area is still very vague since I tend to eat it alone, lol.

GOLD line :D

However, I do also feel the need to recommend comedians George Carlin's opinion on the subject of people wanting to quote "Save The World".

priceless clip

That pizza deserves to be in the sequel of inception.

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I agree

wow that pizza literally got me starving :D

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you and half the people in the comments

We are all living things, therefore we must be selfish without it we as individuals could not survive because all other living things around us are selfish, at every time they would benefit more, every act we do must benefit us, otherwise we would have no motivation to do it and that is how we achive our goals.

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well said

WOW! You hit this one out of the ballpark! Social Sites (and the social engineering that go along with each and every one) are excellent examples of what you state here. We are all selfish, most everyone has a touch of narcissism which only seems to be fed with such sites.
Yet we can not exclude duality... there can be no good without the bad, and being selfish and somewhat narcissistic does not mean one can not care for or support another. It is about common causes and sharing in the networks that feed what one desires (be it to watch the world burn or to save the planet).
Namaste02a.png UntitledWorld1.gif Namaste02a.png
Yes, the Planet would do just fine without our parasitic presence.

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I can't yell which way the earth is spinning. Ill be sitting here for a while

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LULZ !!!
Indeed, I do the same thing (looking slightly away from it makes it even more "weird", shifting from one direction to the other).
I assure you the configuration was set for it to spin from left to right.... the illusion of from right to left was purely a happy accident.
Gracias!

Hello @kyriacos
I love your insight about this...as a student of psychology, I know that idea of individuality stands out more than collectivism. But our individual ideas when brought together,can make a big diffrence and that's when "we" counts.

@arizonawise

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that's a different subject matter though. We are talking about course of action, not brainstorming which I agree is a great idea.

As a student you will also find out soon enough that you are better of doing everything alone in group projects even if everybody has good ideas.

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okay..but as its said,two good heads are better than one.

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always, especially if you are a girl in a threesome

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As we often describe our relationship to people for a joke and question
Answer this question
Are 2 half wits better than one.

it's a mathematical joke
Keep thinking about it and we will come up with an answer we can agree on

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lol
hello @bchick this is an interesting joke and question.
well ,not every time that two heads are better than one, it only applies when those two heads are not "2half wits" but two. and that's when it can be said to have been better than one. i hope we can agree on this.

@arizonawise

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It depends on a number of things, like how you interpret the numbers- so the answers are many. Each time we ask it we hear different responses. That is the fun part, asking the question.
My other 1/2 (wit) has a PhD in topological geometry so this is his joke.

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Ok...so its more of rethorical question. Nice

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Now that the question is in your head you may be surprised how often it comes up and the different ways it can be answered.
Have fun with it!

I tried to read this article, I really did. But that meta-pizza looked so delicious that I had to order a 2 large pizzas and get 1 free deal and then slap them on top of each other for lunch. I am eating it right now and having Alexa read this article to me out loud.

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i think half the people in this thread did the same thing

nice post

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thank you

Pizaaaaaaaa, I am so hungryyyyyy....... well done bro nice point

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thank you man

I would love to eat that pizza.

Very good post :) I like it :)

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glad you enjoy it

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Sure :)

Nice write up.

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thank you

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Your welcome

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Your welcome

yummy :P pizza on pizza

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pizzaception

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doesn't matter what you write, your are defined by your first picture :D

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oh dear me

How BIG is that pizza?

Good points on misguided collectivism, there is no such thing as a general "we", only a "we" on specific issues and questions.

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i have no idea

in soviet russia, toppings choose you!

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Pizza is the anwer. No matter what the question was.

The planet will be fine.
Now, whether people will survive themselves, that's up for grabs.

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I never understood the "save the planet" meme for this reason. You can't destroy the planet. That's human narcissism. There's no way you can destroy life on Earth. It has survived much harsher events than humans could ever impose on it. The more accurate meme, given Kyriacos's insistence on individualism, would be, "save MY environment, please" or even more succinct, "save ME from YOU."

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Yup... "Save ME from YOU." That's what they really mean.

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precisely

In 10 minutes the disagreement can escalate to a point where even your friendship might be put under questioning.

Wow ooooooooooooo it will taste good

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everybody loves the pizza

Nice article

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thank you

Good article kyriacos. How did a civilization with roots in the supremacy of individuality get stuck over an intractable, myopic focus on collective reality?

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How did a civilization with roots in the supremacy of individuality

not really. civilization is a by-product of religion, tribalism about how the world works and what they ultimate purpose of man might be. We merely evolved that thought process into politics. Group against group. Civilization is a result of tribal conflict.

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Civilization in general maybe. I was referring to western civilization, whose awakened awareness of the importance of individuality, of willingness to stand against the mass thought of the group, led to the reformation, the renaissance, and the enlightenment. Those were the building blocks that allowed scientific progress, which led to technological sophistication, which led to manufacturing, which led to the collapse of old orders like the Ottoman empire, which crumbled away like dust when faced with the overwhelming productivity of modern western industrialization.

Not arguing that things haven't taken a turn for the worse here in western civilization or that the western world will always be on top. It most certainly will not. But the simple presence of tribalism doesn't explain the stagnation of the muslim world, or the asian world, in contrast to the dynamism of western civilization, which showed up on the doorstep of these two ancient civilizations and immediately owned them due to overwhelming technological superiority.

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Google a video "Guns, Germs and Steel". Watch the first part. You will end up watching the whole thing but it will make you rethink what you just wrote :)

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Read the book a long time ago ;-)

Diamond has a piece of the puzzle. (Collapse was a good book of his also if you haven't read it yet...) But he tends to look at things from a very mechanistic, almost Newtonian way -- this society succeeded because it had good draft animals, east/west versus north/south orientation, good internal river system for transport, and raw materials. Which are all true. But that fails to account for the effects of society itself.

For example, Diamond's analysis fails to account for the emergence of empires from the midst of warring tribes -- they all had access to the same stuff and the same germs. So why did one dominate the others? Babylonian, Hyksos, Mongols and Genghis Khan -- why did they emerge to dominate their neighbors? Diamond's theory has no answers for this. And, he has no answer for why the Mongols, for example, were able to expand and conquer large parts of the western world even though his technology and society were much more primitive. Nomadic horsemen exploding from lands of minimal resources other than empty grassland and taking over fortified cities packed with people and weapons? How is that possible if Diamond's theory is true?

History is a complicated mix.

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Well, yeah Mongols actually make a good argument against individualism. We have to also consider snowball effects on civilizations. Something beneficial or detrimental can occur and then the rest goes to shit. Jared shows a trend, a general rule of thumb. Surely there are exceptions. But if you get the 33rd longitude you do get more or less 80% of all thriving civilizations.

I think we are still relying on the collective, just in a different sense. Science gave so much power to the West because a few people could produce tools for everyone else. Most people around us know nothing about most things operate around them.

Also, you have to consider the West as long, steady rise due to the area. The rest of civilizations were more like Pump and Dump shitcoins. Quick rise and the quick death.

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Diamond as a general rule of thumb is fair. And I like the idea of collective in more of a population sense, just like a larger pool of bacteria has a greater chance of developing an adaptation that can then be passed to the entire population.

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Yeah but here is the question about humans. Bacteria group and develop better more resilient strains.

Why would humans group up to this point of our history? Who are we trying to eradicate other than ourselves?

I also think that "they" , zealously preaching one thing, at the same time manage to casually ruin another. Don't like hypocrites. And indifferent people.

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Just get cheese pizza, pretty standard right ^_^

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what cheese? mozzarella? cheddar? provolone? ...

There should be a give away for people to guess how many individual pieces of pizza there are haha

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21 pizzaaas :D

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do it. i'll give you a steem dollar :P

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86 pieces, and i pray to goodness that im correct, i literally had my eyes glued to the screen counting

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steem dollar incoming

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Dude, you rock so freaking hard

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Delicious

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why is everybody commenting on the pizza? lol

Where's my pinapple toppings!

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what about those tiny yellow things?

In this world everything is connected or related with everything

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Nice article you've got there. However, let's not forget about a couple of things:
"We" can create synergy, whereas "I" can not.
"I" can not propogate the species, whereas "We" certainly can.
"I" am weak and vulnerable, but "We" are stronger.
There is nothing wrong with the idea of co-existence or, even, co-dependency. It's a really good thing my mom and dad were around to teach me how to wipe my butt when I was a kid, otherwise...

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"We" can create synergy, whereas "I" can not.

sure. "some" of us always do. again. we are talking about a global issue here, not a class project.

"I" can not propogate the species, whereas "We" certainly can.

oh come on....irrelevant

"I" am weak and vulnerable, but "We" are stronger.

against who? other "we's". how's that constructive or even safe? if anything it is more dangerous.

There is nothing wrong with the idea of co-existence or, even, co-dependency. It's a really good thing my mom and dad were around to teach me how to wipe my butt when I was a kid, otherwise...

nobody said otherwise.

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How is propagation of the species irrelevant? Talking in a global context, it is absolutely necessary. Furthermore, the last time I checked, the US did not, singlehandedly stop Japan and Germany in WWII. There was a pluralism involved, it was a group effort. "We" certainly accomplished something that an "I" could never have done, alone. This is also why North Korea will fail, as a State, sooner than later.

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How is propagation of the species irrelevant?

The fact that it takes 2 people to fuck is irrelevant. We are talking about global content here.

Talking in a global context, it is absolutely necessary.

exactly. but it takes only 2 people to agree at a time. hence . IRRELEVANT

Furthermore, the last time I checked, the US did not, singlehandedly stop Japan and Germany in WWII.

Why is this relevant? Group effort? Group effort can stop a war or create one. If Germany had won all the glorious stories about stopping the evil US will be the de-facto truth today. You assumption in heroics is irrelevant. Nobody stopped anybody. Some people won and nothing really changed. I wrote an article about this "If Hitler had won"

There was a pluralism involved, it was a group effort. "We" certainly accomplished something that an "I" could never have done, alone.

Nop. Pluralism exists in everything. USA did not really agree with England or France. It was a temporary alliance to satisfy mutual interests. I explain that in the article. READ IT.

This is also why North Korea will fail, as a State, sooner than later.

This is also why North Korea will fail, as a State, sooner than later.

Unlikely. There is nothing really holding together a state. Even if it falls under any kind or rule it is still that, a state.

You are being too patriotic mate. and irrelevant...

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I admire your contrarian spirit. It does, however, remind me of why I never had the desire to go past Philosophy 101 and Speech 101 in college: it begins to make EVERYTHING YOU SAY, IRRELEVANT. Good day to you, sir. :-)

P.S. Please stop losing your friends over a difference of pizza toppings. Everybody already knows that Hawaiian Style is the best of all.

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pineapple makes everything better.

Hahah love the title of your post, that pretty much explains people agreeing on things. "We - not a logical thought process - fails when applied to global situations" could not agree more!

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glad you enjoyed it

pizza pizza!

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oh dear.

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In my town, that was the slogan for Little Caesar's Pizza joint. it was so cheap we suspect they were laundering money for La Cosa Nostra. I made a legit blog post, check it out :)
https://steemit.com/travel/@i-am-zol/my-misadventures-in-humboldt-county-california-part-1

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bahahha! :D

A bit pessimistic, but a damn good article nonetheless. We have a looong way to go on this planet...

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yeah, I write a lot of these. thank you

waouh
What a beautiful speech, I agree with you but we are supposed to be on earth to improve something. I do not pretend to try to save the planet because I am green and I do in esotericism, but I try with the means I have and I contribute.
If everyone were to put up with it, we would succeed, but there is always a "fear" that is in us and that makes us do stupid things.
Good day to you

We could, but if we are going to be conscious about the environment when we are choosing what to eat, we might as well just settle for a kale salad or Avocado toast. If it was up to me, I would put the entire farm on the pizza, but in doing so, just eat it less often.

Thanks for the delicious inspiration @kyriacos!

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oh dear, i already smell something bad coming out of your kitchen

Excellent, my friend. After lunch was better than dessert.

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lol. i am glad man!

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It's nice to see so many smart people in audience too.

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yeap!

The Pizza of ALL Pizza's.

Great article. Congratulations :)

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thank you :)

nice post

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thank you

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Thanks again...

If "We" learn about and apply Permaculture, then "We" can continue to live as narcissistic "I" and society and planet will actually improve for the better. Magic. IMHO.

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Permaculture is good if you are not lazy. humans are lazy. "we" won't do shit to apply it. basically technology will develop and everything will be automated.

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Well, I can't argue with that :\ Humans gonna human. Or I should say, apes, gonna ape. Easy to forget that we are classified, scientifically, as apes. Oops.

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lol...humans gonna human.

i am stealing this.

hahaha . i love to eat this

its look like father of pizza and babies on it . heheh

Individualism is a modern luxury. It seems to me that for large swathes of our evolutionary history, being too selfish could you get killed directly, or indirectly through excommunication from the tribe. I'm not sure what the implication is to the present. Perhaps we have latent psychophysiological potential for decreased selfishness due to selective pressures. I don't think we understand the degree to which the apparent characteristics of human nature are actively modulated by environment.

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tribalism got more people killed than any other thing in human history. People falsely believe that they will get hit in a battle due to the psychology of the crowd. Same applies for demonstrations in the streets, politics, football matches anything really. More people get in trouble because the mind stops being of an individual. it is rendered too basic towards a very basic goal. This is why groups are also so brutal.

An individual would be more in danger from other groups, sure. But a group cannot offer more safety.

Also, being in a group is also a selfish act towards self-preservation. You just admit you have to do some shit in order to belong. business as usual.

I don't think we understand the degree to which the apparent characteristics of human nature are actively modulated by environment.

we have a fairly good idea. Humans are not that complicated. they are much like any other animal. We just like to give too much credit to ourselves.

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we have a fairly good idea.

Not scientifically. Humans act within an immensely complex multi-variate system. We aren't remotely close to thoroughly decorrelating the variables in observational studies (it may never be possible) nor do we have accurate prediction models for anything other than extremely narrow contexts.

And of course humans are animals, but we possess cognitive abilities very different to other animals. There's also an immense amount of animal behaviour that we simply do not understand.

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yeap. I said the exact same things in previous posts.

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That's why I was surprised that you may have settled in on a fixed description of human nature.

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Never..i am always on the lookout.

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Great! I certainly appreciate a keen set of eyes with a different perspective to my own.

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very good

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thank you

The only problem is, there is no need to "save the planet". Man-made climate change is a hoax and is more a religion than science.
[http://www.petitionproject.org/]

If you think the temperature has been going up. Wrong. The Hockey stick graph is bad science.
http://nov79.com/gbwm/trees.html

In this video a Nobel Laureate points out the measured temperature changes are basically natural randomness (AKA weather).

"We" is not a by-product. We are all humans, with the same nature. That is a fundamental truth. Society is the "We", and it has proven itself to work. It took us a long, LONG time to stop murdering each other and clump together into workable tribes. Tribalism (which always gets such a bum rap) is a mechanism for dealing with the urge to simply murder everyone. The natural maturity of tribalism is the world-wide realization that we are, in fact, one tribe, and that we'd better get our collective shit together.

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Society is the "We", and it has proven itself to work

well yeah..all species do because all species are social. you can't really demonstrate that "it doesn't work" unless we nuke ourselves or a superbug kills us all.

It took us a long, LONG time to stop murdering each other and clump together into workable tribes.

we still do..not os much with knives....more with bank accounts.

Tribalism (which always gets such a bum rap) is a mechanism for dealing with the urge to simply murder everyone.

not really. the opposite is true as history demonstrates.

The natural maturity of tribalism is the world-wide realization that we are, in fact, one tribe, and that we'd better get our collective shit together.

not happening. evolution always favors competition within a species so the best might prevail.

"We" is formed because each 'individual' realized that ze needs each other to survive or adapt. If 'we' are all selfish, then it is safe to assume that 'we' will find a way to co-exist. Selfish nature of each individual will force oneself to co-exist. And that's how people have evolved (not only human but also other organisms on this planet). If you read "Symbiotic Planet" by Lynn Margulis, you may think differently. However, I do agree with your last point. Earth does not need saving. Oh but remember, we do not need saving as well. We will just continue to do what we have done and did.

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yeap. Ayn Rand framed it under the same perspective.

Nobody want to be an asshole so everyone destroys and protects the planet in their own fucked up way.

Absolutely not true, I have intended to be an asshole for some time, I was an asshole even before I joined Steem, and have been an asshole since then.

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I don't believe you. This random internet quiz will prove whether you are not. Because that's what random stuff on the net does. It defines us.
Number 10 was a toss up for me between "Hi" and "FUCK OFF ASSHOLE". The multiple choice question was a bit vague. So the test might only be 98% accurate in defining you as a human being.
http://www.allthetests.com/quiz31/quiz/1403021814/Are-you-an-asshole

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Integrity.

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The last question was hilarious. I think I got it correct too -_-.

Differences are always there but need of the hour is TOLERANCE. We need to learn how to co-exist...... If we want to survive ,.... and enjoy of course,......

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that's easier said than done

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But ultimately we have to co-exist,..... tis better to learn earlier,........

OMG! LOOKING GREAT, I LOVE IT

I am just happy that people come to realize that there is no "we" in planet. This is why we should save our selves first.

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do they though?