I Have Known Doctors - Day 252 - Haiku - My No-Holds-Barred Response to an Idiot Doctor's Blog

in #naturalmedicine6 years ago (edited)

20180815_175732 - Ripened elderberries.jpg

I have known doctors
who cared nothing for patients
over their pockets.

The above haiku is, unfortunately, quite true.

Like many people, and especially women, I have gone to clinics and hospitals with real maladies only to be told it was my imagination, that what I told them couldn't possibly be true, and/or have had my hand metaphorically patted and been told to go home like a good little girl, and do as my doctor ordered.

Forgive my language, but screw them, and all doctors like them. They are a dime a dozen, infect the medical field at every level, and aren't worth a hundredth of what their parents spent on their woefully inadequate educations.

I've nearly died, more than once, due to some quack choosing not to believe me. As have friends, family members, acquaintances and co-workers. And a few actually died because their doctors ignored what they told them was wrong.

Then there are real doctors, the ones who really care, who actually listen when you speak, and consider what you have said seriously. They do exist in so-called "conventional" allopathic medicine, though they are rare and often difficult to find, but they are worth their weight in gold when you finally do.

I've had my life saved, more than once, by a doctor who actually listened, who believed what I told them, and who worked with me to find a solution.

God bless them, all those like them, and we need far more of their kind in the world. They save lives for real.

Sadly, the doctor who wrote the blog post to which I felt compelled to respond appears to be of the first sort, as he blithely ignored the actual science (and evidently didn't even bother looking any up), while going out of his way to discredit the use of natural alternatives.

He dismissed both elderberry and Oscillococcinum as nothing more than wishful thinking, when used in the prevention and treatment of influenza and flu-like symptoms, despite the longstanding clinically proven efficacy of elderberry, and the more recent clinical findings that Oscillococcinum is probably effective, but needs more study, and a larger sampling for testing.

Interestingly, in the final abstract I included in my (very long) comment to the doctor, their findings were that doctors who practiced empathy with their patients actually appear to stimulate their patients' immune response, resulting in decreased severity and duration of the common cold.

Natural healing in action.

Just a guess, but I'm thinking that his patients (if any) will most likely not experience those same results.

Frankly, I hope I'm wrong, and that he's actually a better doctor in person than he comes across as on paper.

My complete response to the doctor, including numerous citations and quotes from relevant research and clinical studies, follows.

You can follow the links to the complete abstracts, and, in some cases, to the complete articles in question.

My paternal grandfather was a conventional MD who, because he actually cared about his patients, commonly sent anyone who had joint and muscular issues to the chiropractor down the street, by whom he was also treated from time to time.

Why? because he knew, as an allopathic doctor, that he himself had NOTHING to offer them, aside from pain pills, which frankly he knew wouldn't help them in the long run, as it wouldn't get to the root of their problem.

Similarly, he had no problem with homeopathy, because it flat out works, if you actually know what you're doing, or consult with someone who does, and don't assume that you already know it all.

In case you need to be reminded, a high percentage of current pharmaceutical drugs are plant based, so quit looking down your nose at those of us who FOR GOOD REASON no longer trust most doctors, and do some actual freaking research BEFORE putting out an article that is so clearly slanted, biased, misleading, and outright false.

Sambucus nigra, aka black elderberry, has been a well-known and widely used healing plant since ancient times, and a LOT of modern research has borne that out, including numerous clinical and in vitro studies, which confirm (yet again) its antiviral and antimicrobial properties, as well as its overall efficacy against not only influenza and flu-like symptoms, but certain cancers, diabetes, and even HIV.

Here are a few to get you started:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

Abstract Title:
Black elderberry (Sambucus nigra) supplementation effectively treats upper respiratory symptoms: A meta-analysis of randomized, controlled clinical trials.

"This analysis included a total of 180 participants and evaluates moderators such as vaccination status and cause of the upper respiratory symptoms. Supplementation with elderberry was found to substantially reduce upper respiratory symptoms. The quantitative synthesis of the effects yielded a large mean effect size. These findings present an alternative to antibiotic misuse for upper respiratory symptoms due to viral infections, and a potentially safer alternative to prescription drugs for routine cases of the common cold and influenza."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9395631

Abstract Title:
Inhibition of several strains of influenza virus in vitro and reduction of symptoms by an elderberry extract (Sambucus nigra L.) during an outbreak of influenza B Panama.

"A standardized elderberry extract, Sambucol (SAM), reduced hemagglutination and inhibited replication of human influenza viruses type A/Shangdong 9/93 (H3N2), A/Beijing 32/92 (H3N2), A/Texas 36/91 (H1N1), A/Singapore 6/86 (H1N1), type B/Panama 45/90, B/Yamagata 16/88, B/Ann Arbor 1/86, and of animal strains from Northern European swine and turkeys, A/Sw/Ger 2/81, A/Tur/Ger 3/91, and A/Sw/Ger 8533/91 in Madin-Darby canine kidney cells . . .
"A complete cure was achieved within 2 to 3 days in nearly 90% of the SAM-treated group and within at least 6 days in the placebo group (p < 0.001). No satisfactory medication to cure influenza type A and B is available. Considering the efficacy of the extract in vitro on all strains of influenza virus tested, the clinical results, its low cost, and absence of side-effects, this preparation could offer a possibility for safe treatment for influenza A and B."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11399518

Abstract Title:
The effect of Sambucol, a black elderberry-based, natural product, on the production of human cytokines: I. Inflammatory cytokines.

"Sambucus nigra L. products - Sambucol - are based on a standardized black elderberry extract. They are natural remedies with Sambucol was shown to be effective in vitro against 10 strains of influenza virus. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized study, Sambucol reduced the duration of flu symptoms to 3-4 days. Convalescent phase serum showed a higher antibody level to influenza virus in the Sambucol group, than in the control group . . .
"The most striking increase was noted in TNF-alpha production (44.9 fold). We conclude from this study that, in addition to its antiviral properties, Sambucol Elderberry Extract and its formulations activate the healthy immune system by increasing inflammatory cytokine production. Sambucol might therefore be beneficial to the immune system activation and in the inflammatory process in healthy individuals or in patients with various diseases. Sambucol could also have an immunoprotective or immunostimulatory effect when administered to cancer or AIDS patients, in conjunction with chemotherapeutic or other treatments. In view of the increasing popularity of botanical supplements, such studies and investigations in vitro, in vivo and in clinical trials need to be developed."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15080016

Abstract Title:
Randomized study of the efficacy and safety of oral elderberry extract in the treatment of influenza A and B virus infections.

"Elderberry has been used in folk medicine for centuries to treat influenza, colds and sinusitis, and has been reported to have antiviral activity against influenza and herpes simplex. We investigated the efficacy and safety of oral elderberry syrup for treating influenza A and B infections. Sixty patients (aged 18-54 years) suffering from influenza-like symptoms for 48 h or less were enrolled in this randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study during the influenza season of 1999-2000 in Norway. Patients received 15 ml of elderberry or placebo syrup four times a day for 5 days, and recorded their symptoms using a visual analogue scale. Symptoms were relieved on average 4 days earlier and use of rescue medication was significantly less in those receiving elderberry extract compared with placebo. Elderberry extract seems to offer an efficient, safe and cost-effective treatment for influenza. These findings need to be confirmed in a larger study."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19641233

Abstract Title:
HIV type-1 entry inhibitors with a new mode of action.

"RESULTS: The compounds that blocked HIV-1 infection were flavonoids and A-type proanthocyanidins. The 50% inhibitory concentration values of these extracts ranged from 0.5 to 201 microg/ml for four different HIV-1 serotypes. Interaction matrices with the elderberry extract and enfuvirtide, a peptide HIV-1 fusion inhibitor, revealed significant super additive effects. This indicates that the compounds in elderberry that prevent HIV-1 infection are likely to bind to viral glycoproteins other than gp41 (the binding site for enfuvirtide). CONCLUSIONS: Optimized elderberry, green tea and cinnamon extracts rich in certain flavonoid compounds were shown to block HIV-1 entry and infection in GHOST cells. As such, these types of botanical extracts could provide a starting point for the development of possible safe and reliable cotherapies for HIV-1-positive individuals, as well as for the identification of new small molecules as leading drug candidates for HIV-1 therapeutics and microbicides."

These studies are the tip of the iceberg; a LOT more exist, which you could have found with even a cursory search, which clearly you never bothered to do. And I restricted my search to elderberry.

The search which brought me the above abstracts, and literally DOZENS more, took me all of fifteen seconds. So your research skills, from this example alone, seem to be pretty much nonexistent, since PubMed is considered a standard source among actual medical professionals.

In addition to Oscillococcinum, which I have personally used in the past with highly favorable results, here are a few more natural remedies for flu and flu-like symptoms that are at least equally effective as those given by conventional doctors, with far fewer side effects:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21832025

Abstract Title:
Green Tea Consumption Is Inversely Associated with the Incidence of Influenza Infection among Schoolchildren in a Tea Plantation Area of Japan.

"Green tea is known to contain antiviral components that prevent influenza infection. A limited number of adult clinical studies have been undertaken, but there is a paucity of clinical evidence concerning children. We conducted an observational study to determine the association between green tea consumption and the incidence of influenza infection among schoolchildren . . .
Our findings thus suggest that the consumption of 1-5 cups/d of green tea may prevent influenza infection in children."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25294223

Abstract Title:
Effects of probiotic Lactobacillus brevis KB290 on incidence of influenza infection among schoolchildren: an open-label pilot study.

"SIGNIFICANCE AND IMPACT OF THE STUDY: We demonstrated a reduction in the incidence of influenza in 1089 schoolchildren by continual intake of a probiotic drink containing Lactobacillus brevis KB290 (KB290), isolated from a traditional Japanese pickle 'Suguki'. The effect was especially evident in subjects not inoculated with influenza vaccine. This is believed to be the first report to show reduced incidence of influenza in schoolchildren taking a probiotic food. Further studies are needed to confirm the effectiveness of the probiotic strain KB290, which may be useful in the development of potential anti-influenza agents derived from common foods."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25847473

Abstract Title:
Anti-influenza virus effects of cocoa.

"BACKGROUND: Cocoa contains biologically active ingredients that have broad-spectrum antimicrobial activity, which includes an inhibitory effect on influenza virus infection . . .
"In human intervention trials, participants were allocated to two groups, one in which the participants ingested cocoa for 3 weeks before and after vaccination against A(H1N1)pdm2009 influenza virus and another in which the participants did not ingest cocoa. Neutralizing antibody titers against A(H1N1)pdm2009 influenza virus increased significantly in both groups; however, the extent of the increase was not significantly different between the two groups. Although natural killer cell activity was also elevated in both groups, the increase was more substantial in the cocoa intake group.

"CONCLUSION: Drinking cocoa activates natural immunity and enhances vaccination-induced immune response, providing stronger protection against influenza virus infection and disease onset.© 2015 Society of Chemical Industry.”

It interested me a great deal to discover that many of these abstracts noted that protective effects were far greater in people who had not been vaccinated, over those who had. Why?

This following abstract may give an excellent clue:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21880755

Abstract Title:
Annual Vaccination against Influenza Virus Hampers Development of Virus-Specific CD8+ T Cell Immunity in Children.

"Infection with seasonal influenza A viruses induces immunity to potentially pandemic influenza A viruses of other subtypes (heterosubtypic immunity). We recently demonstrated that vaccination against seasonal influenza prevented the induction of heterosubtypic immunity against influenza A/H5N1 virus induced by infection with seasonal influenza in animal models, which correlated with the absence of virus-specific CD8(+) T cell responses. Annual vaccination of all healthy children against influenza has been recommended, but the impact of vaccination on the development of the virus-specific CD8(+) T cell immunity in children is currently unknown . . .
"Our results indicate that annual influenza vaccination is effective against seasonal influenza but hampers the development of virus-specific CD8(+) T cell responses. The consequences of these findings are discussed in the light of the development of protective immunity to seasonal and future pandemic influenza viruses."

When combined with the CDC's admission on their own website that the flu vaccine averages less than 50% effectiveness, and the knowledge that those who have been vaccinated, whether or not they get the flu, shed 600% - SIX TIMES - more live virus than those who have not been vaccinated, meaning that everyone they come into contact with is exposed to the flu whether or not they actually develop symptoms, the recommendation that all healthy children be vaccinated begins to look a lot more like reckless endangerment than sound science.

And it certainly disproves the lie of herd immunity.

Here is an excellent article delineating why vaccines are neither as safe nor as effective as we have been led to believe, not to mention why herd immunity is a complete myth:

https://thegrownetwork.com/is-flu-shot-effective/

In short, your grasp of science is lacking, your research skills as already mentioned are either nonexistent or you were simply too lazy to bother, and I have read my first and last post on your blog.

I choose to spend my time reading sources whose information I trust.

With this post, you have amply proven that your research and writing skills, combined with your obvious bias, don't qualify.

I'll leave you with one final abstract, food for thought, not that I think you'll probably put it into practice, judging by your writing style:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19582635

Abstract Title:
Practitioner empathy and the duration of the common cold.

"OBJECTIVE: This study's objective was to assess the relationship of empathy in medical office visits to subsequent outcomes of the common cold.

"METHODS: A total of 350 subjects ? 12 years of age received either a standard or enhanced physician visit as part of a randomized controlled trial. Enhanced visits emphasized empathy on the part of the physician. The patient-scored Consultation and Relational Empathy (CARE) questionnaire assessed practitioner-patient interaction, especially empathy. Cold severity and duration were assessed from twice-daily symptom reports. Nasal wash was performed to measure the immune cytokine interleukin-8 (IL-8).

"RESULTS: Eighty-four individuals reported perfect (score of 50) CARE scores. They tended to be older with less education but reported similar health status, quality of life, and levels of optimism. In those with perfect CARE scores, cold duration was shorter (mean 7.10 days versus 8.01 days), and there was a trend toward reduced severity (mean area under receiver-operator characteristics curve 240.40 versus 284.49). After accounting for possible confounding variables, cold severity and duration were significantly lower in those reporting perfect CARE scores. In these models, a perfect score also correlated with a larger increase in IL-8 levels.

"CONCLUSIONS: Clinician empathy, as perceived by patients with the common cold, significantly predicts subsequent duration and severity of illness and is associated with immune system changes."

I am dedicating this post to #naturalmedicine, and in the hopes of furthering this initiative, half the liquid proceeds earned from my post will be awarded to their account.

I am not linking to this particular doctor's blog, as it is so egregiously biased - and provably false - as to beggar belief, and frankly I don't want to be responsible for gaining him a single reader.

The photo above was taken by me last year, depicting ripened elderberries from a bush a mile from my house.

I'm happy to note that at least two of the cuttings I took, and a possible third, are growing well, have overwintered on my covered front porch, and started leafing out well over a month ago. Woo hoo!!!

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There are doctors and there are doctors. We have been lucky to have our neighbor who was a brain surgeon become our GP now. She leaves nothing to chance and always tries to get to the bottom of whatever it is. Where other doctors missed things she has picked them up and I believe it is not just the money, but a love for medicine that drives a certain few.

I totally agree.

The ones who go into medicine to help people, and who don't allow that to be trained out of them, tend to be the best doctors of all in my experience.

I've been very blessed to find them when I've needed them most.

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Great post.
I can't begin to divulge the misadventures I have suffered at the hands of, not a few doctors, but the medical system.
I am quite unwell and find I must engage them to a degree in order to stay in this world, but I engage with caution too, for the very same reason.
I have been nothing short if abused, neglected, treated less than human and also not believed to the point that my life has been at risked several times. I'm quite sure that if not for my back ground as a registered nurse, my own research and my staunch self advocacy I would be dead today at the hands of the "health" system.
But I must let it go. They are a great brotherhood of arrogance that is untouchable and schooled in entitlement and judgement and the "professional distance" that discourages empathy, before they graduate.
When I meet one who treats me with a grain of respect I feel obliged to thank them for their common courtesy and am sometimes close to tears.
Lastly, A medical trial is considered a success if a medication is 50% effective for the malady it is being prescribed for. Roughly the same figure as a placebo effect. An industry with such low expectations on their own dangerous treatments have no right to judge any alternative treatment that doesn't cause harm. You could crack a raw egg on your head and take a nudie run in the rain and if you feel better for it, your treatment and application has more credit than many drugs and interventions.
I'm so pleased you didn't link them. Zero engagement and promotion is best with these personality types.

I'm right there with you.

Of the good doctors I've had, they have nearly all thanked me for the research I've done on my own behalf, because, when they listened to me, if nothing else I helped to eliminate numerous dead ends.

I've also had doctors thank me for teaching them about effective natural remedies, including at least a couple who started recommending them to their patients. That feels good.

I used to joke that the medical profession was trying to kill me, but it's really no joke, because it's too close to the truth.

I'm lucky as heck to still be here, and as healthy as I am, but a big part of that is that I've been fortunate (and obstinate) enough to be able to refuse the majority of pharmaceutical drugs I've been prescribed.

I currently take zero pharmaceutical drugs, which is to say the least highly unusual for a woman of sixty, especially in America.

Go #naturalmedicine!!!

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It's sad to see that most conventional doctors are driven by profits. They don't want to help you, you are just a number in their files. I do have a friend who is a doctor and he told me that they have some agreements with big pharma companies and if they prescribe certain medicine let's say 400 times a year they'll get an amazing bonus from them at the end of the year. This is their motivation. They may know about similar product that is much cheaper or a natural remedy but they will prescribe you what they agreed with the company.

I agree with you that they are not trying to find a root cause of your problem. I was having serious digestion issues for years. The only thing they tested were the allergies and inflammation in my body. That's it. After a lot of pushing they sent me to a nutritional specialist and it turned out that my stomach wasn't producing enough acid so that the food was not digested properly. It took them so many years and I had to push hard..

It's good to spread awareness and say things how they are so thank you for your post! It was a very interesting read :)

Thank you, I'm glad you found it of value.

The problem is that our American system of medical schools was quite literally set up and financed by Big Pharma, and after they drove the existing homeopathic colleges into the ground, they did their best to do the same to all of natural medicine. And they are still trying.

That was the primary reason why cannabis was made illegal, along with the lumber and cotton industries wanting it gone, because they knew it really worked, and the last thing they wanted was to have an easily available and incredibly effective natural medicine that people could grow themselves.

Doctors in this country are literally not taught real diagnostic skills, any more than they are taught real nutrition; they are simply taught to treat individual symptoms, and to keep people coming back for more.

The really good doctors are forced to self-educate if they want to do the best by their patients. Thank goodness that so many of them do.

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I suspected as much about the kickbacks. Two years ago GI were pushing Humira, even though it was completely inappropriate for my son. This year they are one and all pushing Stellara on him. both of these are medications that cost over $10,000 A DOSE.

That's just immoral. Nothing more and nothing less.

In defense of the nurse practitioner, she gave me a sample of the Advair, but I tossed it after reading the contraindications. Not worth the risk.

I also pointed that little tidbit out to her, so hopefully she at least thought twice before prescribing it to anyone else.

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She must follow "standard medical practice" or she could lose her job. It's a racket, and we are all, the allopathic practitioners included, marks. How on earth did we allow this?

Boy, don't I know it.

I've had more than one doctor start a sentence off something to the effect of, "I'm not really supposed to tell you this, but . . . "

Matrix is Matrix Energetics, which is a form of energy work kinda sorta along the lines of reiki, but less ritualized. It has been called reiki on steroids.

It isn't "called" energy healing, but that is often how it is used, although as with anything, it is best not to attach to a specific outcome, but simply to notice anything different, which often occurs quickly.

I've been a practitioner for about eight years, as had my husband, and I love it, and use it frequently. And, once set in motion, it keeps working indefinitely, as long as it is needed.

Like reiki, distance is not an issue.

You can learn more at www.matrixenergetics.com

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oh yes we are both open to this energy work! We were all five of us working with an intuitive for a couple years but it got very expensive and I had to stop. I've been thinking of calling her for at least my son Niko to help him through these very tough times - a call to adult protective services has forced me to take him to a GI, who of course has done NOTHING (mixed blessing) because getting insurance approval for the Stellara (more than $13,000 a dose retail price!) is not happening. In the meantime, we're staying the course we've been on for four years now: GAPS diet and protocol, yoga. It's not enough - he was very badly poisoned from a young age.
I would be grateful Matrix.

Consider it done.

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Outstanding response. Its sad how often I visit with victims of the medical establishment who have long suffered needlessly, were harmed, or worse, lost loved ones. It feels good to help those who are able to escape the medical brainwashing and learn about the wide world of possibilities beyond big pharma.

It was funny a while back when a married couple of nurse practitioners were sharing their newfound cure for catching the flu in their jobs, elderberry syrup. After they went on about its wonders for a while, we told them about how well it had worked for our kids starting about 25-years ago. Not so new, but it does work. Still they continue to berate silver which most at our visits have had good success with. Looking forward to the day they "discover" that.

My neice was nearly killed by doctors after developing MS or some similar neurological condition. It advanced rapidly in the hospital unders doctors "care". Finally, they sent her home blind and largely paralysed to hospice care with less than 2 months to live. Well, in the several months since she's been able to smoke weed to releave the pain. It has also caused much of her vision to return and let her see her baby. She can now get to the bathroom by herself with a walker. A recent MRI showed amazing progress, with weed and not being in a hospital.

Keep up the good fight against the modern "medical" establishment.

My prayers and best wishes for the continued recovery of your niece. With your permission, I'll send her Matrix for continuing progress, which is a form of distance healing.

I had a boss (who remained a good friend) and her daughter go through similar trials for MS, though they both managed to escape with their eyesight intact, at least the last I heard.

I did pass along everything that came my way regarding natural remedies, but don't know if they were followed, but still keep them in my thoughts and prayers, and send Matrix. Not much else I can do from a distance.

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Many thanks

Love love love... going to sleep now but be back with NM and more comment tomorrow my dear CoPEACE!!!!

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Hi crescendoofpeace,

This post has been upvoted by the Curie community curation project and associated vote trail as exceptional content (human curated and reviewed). Have a great day :)

Visit curiesteem.com or join the Curie Discord community to learn more.

Thank you so much!
Your support is very much appreciated.

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Wow! thank you for putting so much information in one place! Incredible info about elderberry and AIDS!
I hear you on those doctors. I've had one child, now a bed ridden man, crippled for life by allopathic "treatment" for his Crohn's disease. I would not have followed those orders except that he was also special ed, and the schools threatened me. The public schools are in cahoots with the medical industry. It's a big mess. Thank you for being one who is working to counter the ill effects of our medical system.

Wow, there's an entire book wrapped up in your comment, if not several. My heart goes out to you and your son. With your permission, I'd like to send him Matrix, and you're already both in my thoughts and prayers.

I've had a number of friends who have had children, and other family members, harmed and/or killed by the very treatments that were supposed to help them.

My own dad was harmed, with me as his healthcare surrogate making the decisions, when he was given surgery for early stage prostate cancer and a scrotal hernia. The abysmal results, while not life-threatening, seriously compromised his quality of life, and all because I was not given accurate information with which to make the decision.

I've since learned, thanks to my own research, that as he was already in his late 70s at the time, old age was going to kill him long before the prostate cancer would even become an issue. The hernia correction was completely ineffective, and did nothing but make him incontinent, a well-known side effect that they never even hinted at in all our consultations.

And I've written before, a well-meaning nurse practitioner prescribed Advair for my asthma, after which I went home and read through the cautionary statements, which said among other things that it might make me more likely to die from asthma.

Thanks but no thanks.

Thank you for your comment. I'm glad you found the information valuable.

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Thank you!
Most of us have these stories! And we are told to blame the disease, not the treatment.
What is Matrix?
Here's a poem I wrote after a recent stay with my son in the hospital - it's short! https://steemit.com/naturalmedicine/@owasco/a-necessary-evil
I loved your haiku.

Interesting read, @crescendoofpeace . Today's doctors have only money on their mind and that's also what makes them allergic to listening to the benefits of the natural medicine.. 😀 They simply refuse to accept the truth, no matter how hard you try.

Glad you shared this post. It's very useful. I'll also tweet it later.

Thanks for sharing :)

Thanks very much, I'm glad you found the information valuable.

So much of this knowledge has been lost In recent decades, and it is up to those of us with even a little real knowledge to pass it along, and thus to preserve it for future generations.

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Nice article. Good knowledge about herbs👍👏

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Thanks for your comment! I'm glad you found it useful.

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Your post is full of useful information. I'm using elderberry flowers to treat cold and just for tea because it tastes great but didn't know the fruits are so useful. My brother did wine once. Thanks for the info,I'm going to bookmark this page.

You're very welcome, I'm glad you found it useful!

And I'm with you, as natural remedies go, elderberry is among the most delicious. I like the syrup stirred into hot tea, one of the few ways I enjoy sweet tea, or drizzled on ice cream. Yum.

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You made me drooling for ice cream now 😁
We used to make elderberry soda when I was a kid. I still do sometimes, it's a great soft drink.

Yeah, I've done that by adding elderberry syrup to stained water kefir, and putting it in a screw-capped or swing-top bottle for a few days. Yum. ;-)

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