Free Speech Doesn't Mean Zero Consequences.
I love free speech in part, because it is such a balance. Some people feel free speech means you can say whatever you want and others have to listen. I understand anywhere you are allowed to speak your mind, you are risking your reputation, and in some cases your friendships, jobs and more. Holding an opinion that is different from the crowd is not appreciated. It is often entertaining to see how far people will go to defend their own opinion.
I belong to this really interesting private group on Facebook, and it has been really good for me. The group is a bunch of people who have decided we discuss uncomfortable topics, all "words" are allowed. You can call people names, use racial slurs, cuss, etc. (you don't have to, but you can) The only rule is no personal threats. Everyone in the group is there of their own free will and has agreed to challenge themselves past being offended. We have about 4000 members and we discuss everything from politics to marriage, religion, racial issues, entitlement, gender issues, all of the most inflammatory topics. The group has been very freeing to me, to get past how people word their point of view and focus on what they are trying to say. At any given time the rants and topics can turn into personal attacks. Members are expected to get past the attack and speak to the issue. All of the PC culture has been removed from the group. All by choice. We don't invite people to participate, we just discuss every issue with the Freedom of saying that which we want to say. It helps that it is a private group and only those who participate can see your posts. The group gets reported often, and sometimes our admins get 3 day suspensions from Facebook. We say what we want to say, how we want to say it. We risk putting out a strong opinion and getting "shamed" by the group. We have changed lives. We have members who have changed what they were doing after having the rest of the members discuss, why it isn't okay to have an affair or pimp your sister for drugs. (not even kidding) Those of us in the group have become very close. There is a special bond with being right and wrong with our friends in our own "safe space". Where you are actually allowed to say what you think and mean.
In no other place in the world do I feel free to speak out. Anywhere else, there are consequences for speaking out. In our world we care more about not being offensive than speaking the truth. Than having an opinion, discussing different points of view.
Recently, I have found that if you disagree vocally with some people even on a single topic you are risking your very friendship, support and even public shaming. I might be able to earn here on SteemIt, but who cares if I can't say what I have to say, receive intelligent feedback and learn from different views.
I will show up anyway. I will speak my point of view, I will admit I am not always right, but I am also not defensive and punitive.
Do you understand that free speech, or censorship resistant means you can speak your mind? However, don't do it if you aren't willing to face the consequences.
If the friendship required that I be silent or wrong, then it isn't me who ended it.
tru dat, loners 4 life :D
Agreed. and at this point in my life, the Platform as well. I would rather not be involved than conform.
The answer is anonymity with accountability. Not an easy thing to bake into a messaging or social media platform.
Steem is a very strong contender for the accountability part. The more invested you become in the platform by usage and accumulating Steem, the more accountable you become. Further, there's a lot of hostility toward trolls and socially "abusive" behaviour, which is defined very loosely, by the group.
But Steem has a ways to go with anonymity, as while you can use Steem under a psudonym, the Steemit company knows a lot about you (email, phone number, IPs, etc. etc., read the Privacy Policy). The usual verification means of posting a photo, or using a third party service and connecting with other social media platforms, it completely removes any anonymity. This is why I remain unverified, but I'm looking at using a better solution. And I hope my posting record will speak for itself as time goes on. 😅
Great point on the consequences of free speech, really interesting story about your Facebook group. 👍 💯
As a question to you 🤔 do you think those kind of taboo-busting discussion spaces are something that should be applied everywhere, or are you happy to have it as it's own thing?
I have really grown from the discussion group on FB, because, it forces you to get past the power of words, and get down to trying to understand a POV or perspective.
I am especially worried about our newest generation and their inability to discuss issues due to fear of "words".
Words only have the impact on us that we allow and assign. I wish everyone was willing to push themselves past their comfort zone in debate.
Consequences? Whats that? :P Yes great point. I really enjoy hearing you speak in chat. I learned a lot from you so thank you :)
I have learned from you as well. That is why I love our crazy sometimes out of control chat!
Certainly got me curious about it too. l But I get that it's not something you do lightly, or to check it out. You would need to be prepared to not only say whatever you like about someone else's stuff, but be willing to bare your own. I imagine it's very challenging but also immensely valuable on many levels.
Exactly! It is a challenge like no other. For me it has been great to be SO challenged, and also learn great respect for other view points. Once you get past the PC thing, you learn so many things about why people think what they think.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It follows well with my post from yesterday :) Resteemed.
Thank you for the resteem and feedback. You are truly one of the best authors, and most respected Steemian I know.
Today's PC culture can certainly be over the top. But don't count on a "private" facebook group to shield you from the consequences of your speech. What's private today may not be private tomorrow.
The consequences of that group sound practical, and is it not all consensual. What is your argument?
No argument. Just pointing out that there is always the possibility that someone from outside the group sees the things that are posted in the group despite the fact that it is "private" (e.g. an employer or potential employer, etc.) There are no truly safe spaces on the internet. In other words, such a group shouldn't be used to say things that you wouldn't be willing to say and defend if they were said outside the group.
Yes, it should be used exactly for that, everyone agreed to that, consequences of that are entailed in agreeing to post in the group, everyone knows it's not "private", it's a group, but the reason they had the group, the reason why I think it's very cool and applaud everyone there for challenging themselves even if they joined because of other reasons. The group was there so people could and would say those things that they were afraid of saying in real life, and couldn't say anywhere else.
The point is that if you are afraid of saying these things in real life because you are afraid of the consequences then you probably shouldn't be saying them on facebook because you could still suffer those same consequences. A facebook group is not necessarily sufficient to shield you from, for example, making racist comments (and I'm not suggesting the original poster would make such comments, I'm just giving an example). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for free speech but attempting to hide from potential consequences via a facebook group is not the same as facing those consequences which is what may happen anyway.
The reason I brought it up is because a lot of people think that because a social media network offers some sort of "privacy" feature that they should trust it. But facebook is hacked all the time, the owner of the group could decide to make it not private, or some angry person could take a screen shot of what someone says and post it everywhere. Facebook offers only the thinnest veneer of privacy. It should be assumed that anything posted on a social network will one day be public. That day might be tomorrow or it might be 10 years from now but it will probably come sooner or later.
Yes, and when you need a place where you can talk about things that you cannot talk about with your friends, or your family.. you go and make racial remarks in a group or threats and vent or whatever asshat thing you do because you can escape the consequences, and if you do that, someone might see you. I can understand how one who would be in that kind of hypothetical place, where they are acting like a complete ass hat because they can get away with it, and later down the road they get a job a BURGER, o wait, at some reputable company that gives a fuck about a fuck, and they are like "fuck off you cunt, and fuck all those people who talk without consequences".
Yes I can totally see the practical side of forming that argument. Warning sticker mentality.
"It helps that it is a private group and only those who participate can see your posts."
I was just pointing out that the above is not guaranteed.
I get your point. It is a good one. I think the group is just an excercise in realizing words are just words. However, I think you point about what if someone sees those words later is a good point also.
What makes it a good point? Because we have warning stickers just about everywhere.
What if?
So what?
Would you want to have employment there to begin with in that hypothetical situation?
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You got scroll spammed, thats a fact.
I am at a point in my life where my career and finances are constrained by acceptance. My kids are grown. I am a grown up. Personally, I considered all of those things. If someone screen shots my comments and takes them public I am okay with that. For me, it was about learning to cope with other people's un PC behavior. :) It isn't for everyone.
Yeah, and that would be AWESOME, you would have validation as to WHO NOT TO DEAL WITH.
The situation would be "hey you can't work here, or hey I don't like you because so and so"= SO FUCKING WHAT?! Fuck you, I don't like you, and go back to doing what you were doing as they go fuck off, or try to pick a bigger fight, because asshats."
And that's great, but some people don't have that luxury because they have kids to support and a mortgage to pay or whatever and can't afford to be out of work at the moment.
So some people don't have that luxury and kids and the grandma's medicine, and so what? You're saying those people don't have common sense? So you are saying they are asshats that would act like that EVEN in real life and would only go on the group because, in real life, they are asshats, or what are you trying to argue now, because we both know that you're not saying they are using anuses to cover their heads. You're
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saying how you know, if you think that your employer ain't gonna see this, you ass hat that works at.. whatever place sucks that much life to asses (: their employees through facebook media (ANY PLACE, because some people are fucking evil and petty and mean and reek of shit and everything that is revolting, and you don't want to work for evil, hence you will be free of a job working for some evil cunt asshole that took offense to your asshat comment, in case you weren't even an asshat)
because if you were just saying that to help those asshats, WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU WORKING ACTIVELY TO HELP AN ASSHAT AND WARN THEM! CAUTION ASSHAT YOU'RE GONNA REGRET IT!
Hello @whatsup. I totally agree and I believe that freedom of speech is to speak what you want, but in the same way, be open to listen to what you don't want. :D
Completely agree.
Awesome! I like the idea, even on fakebook. My views aren't inhumane or something, but certainly not always politically correct. I don't know how far fb is to be trusted, probably not at all.
now you got me wanting to check out this "secret" group lol
When I first joined steemit I was really hoping to bring this group over to SteemIt, but we wouldn't have a place to interact, and while we are building a base user-group, I don't think it would be a good thing.
WHICH FUCKING CONSEQUENCES!?
um. The fucking consequences. ;)
I'd like to talk about the other consequences, not those consequences..
lol