RE: Challenging Feminism. What's your opinion?
try and raise them up in the areas they are down
How does feminism know the areas that affect men when every time I and others try discussing this we are accused of playing victims and try to steal the spotlight, divert conversation, defend our privilege and control the narrative by people identifying as feminists?
Does feminism believe women have any advantage over men? If so what?
I'm not ignoring some men can lose their minds, simply in my experience it has nothing to do with hurting women because of their sex or keep them from becoming better, achieving their dreams, etc.
You don't have to lay out the bad experiences you've had with men, I know, trust me I know. And knowing that I can assure you that women don't have it worse, which is at the core of feminism even if it's hard to see. There is no wave of feminism that doesn't believe women suffer more than men, that men keep women down to stay on top.
Feminism can say all day long that it helps men, but if men are complaining that feminism is hurting them why aren't you listening? How come you want us to listen to your experience like your boyfriend and believe you, but you can't believe our experiences?
Let's see how much closer feminism has brought you to men, please let us know when you have a chance whether you believe men are more vulnerable than women to anything that is not toxic masculinity, please let us know whether you believe there's any way at all in which women benefit from this system more than men.
For one, I'd love to know why you think that women are not worse off than men. I know you have problems too but even from a biological standpoint women are worse off. And biology counts.
Things men are more vulnerable to? I'm not sure exactly what you class as toxic masculinity, and why you believe that doesn't count, but here are a few things. Men are less likely to take care of both their health and mental health, and are more likely to commit suicide. They are less likely to report if they have been raped or if they're the victim of domestic abuse, and less likely to be taken seriously if they do report it. They're more likely to die at work, and more likely to be injured. In most countries they aren't given as much paternity leave as woman are given maternity leave, meaning that the choice of who the primary caregiver is is made for them. (This can also be seen the other way as a downside for women, which it is, but my point here is that men are still denied that vital bonding time with their baby.) They have less choice in clothes shops, pretty much always. In the case of divorce and the custody of children, the court is often biased towards the mother, whether or not she is the better parent.
Is that enough? I do pay attention, and I do listen to men. Now to see if you listen to women - what problems do you think we have?
I don't think women are not worse, I know it because I've been able to get both treatments, I am not making this up and I know of plenty others like myself who only found out because of their trans experience.
These things you (not feminism) mention men are more vulnerable to, have you found out about them in a feminist forum? Why do you think men are more vulnerable to things like suicide? Have you ever seen a feminist talk about the reasons why men don't get as much consideration as parents other than the oppression of patriarchy trying to force women into motherhood?
Can you reference a single piece of writing or video in which feminists are discussing male issues outside of the way males affect females? I've never seen a feminist discuss male issues where they didn't at least imply men are causing their own issues and if women ever contribute it happens as a result of patriarchy which is there to benefit men anyways...
Nobody is denying women have issues, what many are denying is that they have the most issues and that men are causing them, which is what feminism is about.
Whaaaa
I found out about all those things through feminism. Feminist posts and videos on Facebook, mainly. The reason I think that about suicide is because of feminism. And the parenting thing - of course it's spoken about outside of what it means for the mother! I think you're thinking of feminism as this thing that is external to us, but it isn't. What I just said is feminism. It's my feminism, and many other people's feminism. To say it's not is not only to undermine me, but is plainly wrong. Feminism is nothing more or less than the belief the men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. The ways in which different people interpret this is out of our control, and so yes, some people who call themselves feminists, you might not agree with. But that doesn't mean that feminism itself is bad. That's sort of the equivalent to saying Islam itself is bad, because you don't agree with the actions and beliefs of terrorists who call themselves Muslim.
Waiting for references. This is what I always hear word for word and I have no gain in undermining you or anyone else.
That's a beautiful whitepaper! You're going to a find a hard time finding people unwilling to buy into that. How does feminism propose to achieve that?
If feminism is up for interpretation there should be at least one thing people identifying as feminist agree on, no?