I am not a Feminist
According to a self-declaring feminist on twitter, I am even a… well, I am not sure what she means, but it surely is mean.
Congratulations on being promoted from Schroedinger's Rapist to Probable Rapist.
How come?
She opened a long thread about rape and how to prevent it and that “saying no” in more clear words (than half-hidden clues) does not work. Because men ignore it. Then she asked
Importantly, men understand these kinds of indirect refusals in non-sexual situations. So what's the difference between "Some other time" when it comes to dinner/cinema and "Some other time" when it comes to sex?
And I offered a possible explanation (in bad Twitter language, sorry):
Maybe its just that you already had 100 happened times "maybe later" when it is about eating, but a lot less "sex later" happen? No learning possibility?
Men often hear from the females of the human species that they can’t read clues even on daily topics. So how hard must it be when the situation is (probably) one of very few?
(Side note: It has been shown that professional stock traders, who were shown sexy pictures, do more risky stock trades afterwards and ignore hints of bad stock trading decisions that would normally prevent them making those trades.)
But instead of taking this point of discussion and either accept it or refuse it with arguments, the feminist decided to go on full attack and ignoring the point made.
Congratulations on being promoted from Schroedinger's Rapist to Probable Rapist. Goodbye.
And likely blocked me.
It is useless to complain about actions of people on the internet, but I want to point out three things with this.
Why feminists should not do this
First: If you want to convince people of something, attacking them won’t help. Quite contrary, it will hurt your cause.
Second: The obvious notion that I am a possible rapist (and then “promoted” to more likely rapist because I do not fully agree) right from the start may be statistically speaking correct, but quite inhuman – exactly a behavior that feminists have fought against (Women can only cook, not manage a company.)
Third: If you simply ignore arguments that may contradict your POV, then you are no different from a religious extremist. Acting on believe to exclude someone is a disgrace for the human race.
I am not a feminist – I am a humanist
I have no problems with not being a feminist. I consider myself a humanist, caring for all people. Caring only for women would be a step back. Being a humanist transcends feminism.
Anyway, as a humanist I try to see the motives and reasons of everyone, and yes, that also includes rapists. There is no reason why not, quite contrary.
Only if you understand the reasons for their behavior you may be able to prevent rapes. And that, per definitions, means you have to help the rapists. You have to help them getting more control over their urges. Or you must help them by figuring out with more clarity and success that they are not able to control themselves and need to be safely shut away.
You are not helping anyone by blocking arguments that you do not like.
This is also why I am opposed to all that “save spaces”. Yes, you should be able to be save from rape, robbery, polluted air and much more. But that does not happen by not speaking about it. Only by shining light on the shades you can hope to fight the darkness.
I'm on the fence about this post.
On the one hand, the 'humanist' argument is pretty reminiscent of the 'all lives matter' moniker, which misses the point. While it makes sense and is true, it misses the point.
On the other hand, I've encountered the 'you're a rapist because you don't agree' feminism before, and boy is it condescending bullshit (I also feel this way about 'you're a racist because you don't agree'). Sometimes it would be true, other times not, but it has to be taken on a case by case basis based on the individuals articulations and arguments.
If you're a female, being a feminist seems like a pretty damn sensible way to be. However, if you're a female and not a feminist it doesn't make you stupid or weak, and if you're male and not it certainly doesn't make you a rapist. Not all feminists are like this - but, like in all political or sociological ideologies, the loudest ones generally are.
Judging from the tweets you included, this person was out of line in coming to the conclusions about you that they did. It's sort of difficult to resist dismissing a person along with their arguments when they make such a ridiculous leap. I mean, where can you really take the conversation when the other person has already decided you're a rapist?
Sorry, that seems to be slang I don't understand.
Since I am from Germany I have only seen reports and some tweets about this, so I can't judge this, but I was a humanist before I was a feminist (as in: got in deeper contact with it), and for me it makes sense.
I think the "misses the point" discussion is the POV problem: For the Twitter-woman being a feminist is clearly a defining piece of herself, maybe the center, if she reacts so hotly.
For me "feminist" is just a subset of "humanist". As a humanist I despise rapes. But I also despise slavery, war and so on, without one of those being the all-overarching central point.
Lol. It's not slang. I meant to write 'I'm on the fence about this.' This is a phrase that means that I'm undecided, or am not sure exactly what my reaction is.
I think people forget (or aren't even taught) to argue the point, not the person.
People get defensive (which leads to anger) because they want to be right. No matter what.
I agree that open dialogue is really important if there is any chance of understanding both sides (or all three sides if you count the truth somewhere between opinions); and only understanding will lead to effective solutions.
Yes, that is an important point. It is something most people need to be taught, but how and when should this happen when conflict is avoided at all times?
You may be interested in this post which is on my "to write about list" at the moment (don't knwo if I get an good angle)
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/04/opinion/sunday/kids-would-you-please-start-fighting.html
The author certainly brought up some valid points. Learning such a skill effectively from a young age would be invaluable. Some children are certainly better at it than others - then turn into adults with the same traits.
Funnily, I have pondered this question when it comes to letting siblings continue their 'passionate debates' as I prefer to think of them, so they learn for themselves how to navigate a dispute.
I'm sure if you feel the inspiration hit, you'll write a thought-provoking article on it. :)
You know that this "Schrödingers Rapist" concept is still bouncing around in my head like mad, screaming hellishly? It is a horrible feeling. It searches for a story hook, maybe for a detective story.
Can you rape an AI? You have to prove if the AI is a feeling AI (as in sentient being) or a dumb AI (as in automatically speed-adjusting dildo).
If you can't prove either, the perpetrator is a Schroedinger's rapist.
Or something like this.
That is a really horrible feeling if you can't get the story out of it!
I think the learning seldom comes from alone, especially in a heated environment. Guiding them with a loving hand and honeyed tongue may be the best course.
Request: first learn about feminism and try to understand the struggles of women before you write and anti-feminist post, tag it feminism, but fill it with your own personal opinion based on one feminist being "mean" to you? Pretty please? If you care about humans then consider how we are all oppressed and chained by old traditions.
It hurt to be called mean things. Ive been calked racist many times as an anti-racist trying to sort shit out in discussions with black and brown ppl. 75% of the time i realize my mistake. Its a short pain. One that weboth can survive much more easily than rape, even attempted date rape, or systemstic oppression.
Could you please explain why this is an anti-feminist post?
And with which tag to discuss feminist's behavior, if not feminism?
Well, in short for me feminism is the critique of gender (roles) and the strive (or if you wish fight) for equality.
You don't know my knowledge or view on feminism, but imply I don't have any - maybe because you think I am a man?
btw. there is nothing on my Twitter profile or in my discussion with the woman that shows my gender.
I don't think the girl would use "rapist" against a woman, so she clearly put me (without data) in the "man" category. Putting someone in a gender (role) just because that person puts up a logical point that may be contrary to your worldview is.... sexist, don't you think?
Hello, i am basing your knowledge on what I have read. As for your gender, you do have a pic of a man in the begining of your post. Its not a stretch. That said, I am not mad whether you are a man, woman, or non-binary.
Perhaps my request is aggressive or assuming. I belive that intelligent people will understand a woman's anger and frustration when talking about rape after they have fully immersed themselves in feminist rhetoric. When talking about how society's insistence that men should pursue and women should be coy then turns ugly it seems logical , to me, that a woman would be upset at making excuses. Because we/society usually does for men. Its changing but it is not yet safe. Dating is not safe!?!?!
Why this is an anti-feminist post?
Because you are discussing one persons actions and saying that you arent a feminist. Cool. Great. But this post isnt about feminism. Its not even about rape. Its about how one feminist git mad at your response and blocked you.
So if I had put in a woman you had assumed I am a woman?
(btw. there were two pictures to choose from that looked like I wanted it - despair - and one was a woman, but I choose the man one because man get attacked openly a lot more then woman for being anti-feminist.)
You are right in one point. This post is not about feminism as a movement and it is not about occurrences of rape.
It is about a behavior that I have seen in different places (but often from "proud feminists") that I consider a really bad idea.
In this post I have taken the real-life example (because that is always better then something made up) and explained why I think this is bad.
The woman said I am "promoted to a probable rapist".
You know what happens to man that gets denounced as a rapist? He loses his job, neighbors avoid him and so on. Even if he is still a virgin...
This behavior not only damages the man and in most cases the accusing woman, but also the whole feminist movement. As a feminist you should make sure to be just even towards man!!
(And indeed as stalwart against those accusations as if it were someone saying woman deserve rape if they talk back. Both is extremely sexist bullshit.)
This post is a good intentioned warning to everyone, but especially feminists because of the example, to avoid this behavior (and reflect it). This is the reason why this is a feminist post.
If the three points didn't stand out enough, then maybe I have to work on that showing.
as a feminist i can do whatever tha fk i want :D
You missed her point . She responded negatively. You didnt die! (I think) why is this a "warning".
Take a look at #feminism tell me there isnt a reason for me to be mad.
The biggest problem i habe with this post isnt the fact that you tagged it feminism in order to spew hate and tell feminists or women how to act.
The problemis that i know your name. I've seen you in curie-- a place that i respect.
After watching numerous antifeminist troll posts go by-- hoping to find more feminists on the blockchain-- i fall to your post. Written by a normally rational amd reasonable person.
sigh
She can block who she wants. She is not required to be kind. She is not required to respond to people who are making excuses for bad behavior. Its her Twitter page. Its her eyes. Its her life. Do you even know her? Maybe--if you did, shed be more patient. Why do you think she owes you something? Why should any feminist "behave" any differently than the men you are trying to protect?
You got hurt and you are mad. So now you are yelling aboug it. Thats fine. Just dont tag it feminism
Tag it #angryrant tag it #bekindevenifimwrong tag it #twitterproblems this post is not about feminists or feminism. Its about you and your feelings.
No, not at all. You completely missed the point. It is a very rational post.
I do not complain about being blocked (as the quotes it is a necessary info for what happened). I may complain a bit about being called a rapist - but who would not?
But this post is about inter-human relationship and how you should not do it.
I have reworked the article a bit to make the three points more clear. Hope that helps.
Do you know how this comment looks to me?
It looks like the Twitterer's behavior. There is something that challenges your worldview - that talking about bad behavior of a feminists has something to do with feminism.
You say multiple times that I have no idea of the topic, that I didn't understand what was going on and that I attack feminism.
While we can argue for weeks about the first two points, there is not a single thing that could make the third true.
For me it looks like you try (I exaggerate a bit) to take away my right to speak up for myself, to take away my humanity and deny that I have a functioning brain.
All that which feminism has fought against for more then a century now.
If that was intentional, it was a good simile. If it was not intentional, you may want to think about that.
Think you are right on the money. The twitter troll has an agenda to shut down any opposite viewpoints. It is easy to say "because you are not in my shoes, you can never understand." It takes guts to say "I know your feelings are hurt, but it is time to work on getting over it, so we can move on." Being a victim to circumstantial feelings is a debilitating condition that can only heal if the person wants to heal. The modern spreading belief is that a person's feelings should be everyone's concern. Any opposition should prepare to be villainized.
I don't think she was a troll. If I had to try a psychological analysis (and you really should not based on a few tweets, but essentially that is all you have in modern days 90% of the time), then I would say she was (rightfully) indignant about rapes.
And she was trying to get confirmation of her views on the net, to increase self-esteem and assure herself she is not alone in the fight.
Then I came in and challenged her "man do not want to get hints, so clear spoken words won't change anything" worldview. I did the opposite of what she anted from her tweets (reassurance), which resulted in aggressive behavior.
While it is certainly true that you should not intentionally hurt other's feelings and be respectful (which means to sometimes do not say some things that you can say to others), ultimately the only one responsible for your feelings is you.
Take Ghandi. He had to endure more ridicule and attacks (even life threatening) then could be put on a A4 sheet in 6pt size.
He endured them and smiled and tried to feel compassion towards even his worst enemies, and he was rightfully applauded for that ability.
Still he was a man that beat his wife in anger, and this does not get better for him being a saint for decades.
He felt sorry, but if such a man was not able to not physically hurt someone he loved, how should the average Joe or Jane on the street be able to not say something that hurts someone else?
Really appreciate that you responded respectfully with good thoughts to everyone's comments.
Thank you.
I try whenever I can.
Yes, similar to when i get dms about being a cunt and told to shut up or kill myself. because of a disagreement or actually get death threats daily...
Even though I am more and more inclined to label myself as a feminist, I agree 100% with your post. Feminism is often used as a way to show exactly the kind of behaviour that feminism originally opposes. So, yes to all your points.
Except maybe the 'humanist' point of view. As other people here in the comments also raised, so will not repeat that.
For myself, as a female philosopher, thinker, being, I intend to work at all times to develop a way of living and behaving and thinking that does work towards creating a world in which we don't have to work on the basis of opposition, but a type of inclusion that is not suffocating. (Which is not easy.)