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RE: 11 TIPS TO SPOT A NARCISSIST
Thanks @clayboyn for the comments. Appreciated.
About labels, it is a yes and no. They do still exist you can see by the DSM literature used today (see references) and can set a course of therapy, on the other hand they can also misused and create unnecessary hell in people's lives ( I am thinking on some artificial labels created by the big pharma just to make money, like ADHD).
On a more mundane level this article can help people to recognize the level of abuse and suffering they have been undergoing on the hands of narcissists, and bring awareness to the problem.
On the next article I will approach practical ways to deal with narcissists and maintain our emotional and mental health.
I totally agree that it's something it that can be emotionally abusive, but I don't agree with labeling people based on a behavior that can be changed. Narcissistic behaviors, like you said above, are presented by all of us. It's not like murder or rape or child molester. Those are actions. Labeling someone a narcissist because of a narcissistic behavior that is developed as a coping mechanism to abuse or neglect that they previously received is not helping, it's saying "We're all fucked up, but your more fucked up so you are the bad one." I hope you can see my perspective here. I'm not trying to fight your beliefs on the issue, I'm just trying to promote the ability to challenge your own thought on the matter and make sure that is what you believe at your core.
I understand and I am with you @clayboyn horrible things have been done using labels, like the confusion of most psychiatrist, even today, between psychosis, and spiritual crisis or emergence. My background is in psychology so I use them but with containance.
I guess by what you wrote that you haven't been the target of a narcissist in your personal life or have to deal with them professionally. You might not believe the emotional and mental scars that they leave are like any other type of abuse or trauma. I have clients in their 50 and 60 that are still trying to deal with things that happen to them in their childhood.
The other thing that is so sad with narcissists is that they are never wrong or apologise. By not accepting that they did something wrong they continue to repeat it (creating hell for them and others close to them). In the narcissists mind they are never the problem, the problem is other people. And so it goes. It is very difficult for them to change even with psychotherapy (which in most cases fail).
I feel like the core issue, which is why I really hate labeling based on the behavior pattern, is that I was convinced I was completely different from everyone else. Sometimes people take that as a narcissistic view of themselves being better than everyone, but it's nothing like that at all for the person doing it. It's just a tool developed to convince everyone else that nothing is wrong. Honestly, once I started fixing issues I kind of gave on the whole concept that a narcissist was a real thing, but perhaps the overt physically abusive and the covert internal rage are really two different conditions. Either way, thanks for the alternative perspective and hopefully I provided some food for thought.
I understand you hate labeling based on behavior patterns. I don't have that relation with labeling, it is like anything else that can be use for good or ill.
Sorry @clayboyn I disagree with you when you try to explain narcissistic behavior based on the ends of the narcissistic behavior. If you really want to understand what goes on in their minds please read my article PEEK INSIDE THE NARCISSIST'S MIND
Going back to labeling. Take an example a person that kills people. If I don't give you the context you don't have the whole picture to proceed, or in this case to label that person. If I tell you that person that kills people is a soldier of your country, or that person is a psychopath criminal, or that person does medical assisted euthanasia in terminal patients. Although the aim of the behavior is the same, the context in which is done will alter our perception and meaning of it, and consequently the label attached to it.
It's fine to disagree it allows for additional perspective. My view is that morality and perceptions are relatively subjective. I prefer to base mine on my own beliefs and not a superego societal norms. Personally I feel that society has become so far gone at this point that to use the skewed condemning views of a society that finds it more comfortable to toss blame instead of looking within for comprehension of why you would allow yourself to be emotionally abused as an adult if something wasn't inherently off with you in the first place. Codependency enables narcissistic behavior, so removing codependency could also be seen as a cure. Ultimately we are all responsible for ourselves.
:) If you read the post I linked at the start, I'd say I'm extremely familiar with "narcissist" as I have spent the last three and half months fixing my own issues that no one had ever even pointed out to me. I would say I hit literally every behavior used to diagnose NPD and was completely oblivious. The key to changing all of that? Love and not being treating like I was broken. I have basically used steemit as my journal for mental health and working through all of my issues if you want verification. Including finding the points where the broken behaviors were learned.
I sympathise with you @clayboyn . First of all you are having the courage to step forward, and I bow to that. No all are able to do that. It takes certain kind of people to embrace such challenge. Second, you are not broken my friend, at core you are perfect, but that doesn't mean that there are some issues with the way you make reason of the world and act on it. The main point is that you took the challenge to better yourself and that's what counts in my book. Let me know if I can help you in someway. Much respect for you.
Actually I'd like your opinion on this: I think the reason I feel so strongly about this is exactly the subjective nature of the behaviors. I think the problem with diagnosing the behavior based on broken thinking is that it's telling someone they are that behavior. I feel like mental health diagnosis in general doesn't consider the damage done by telling someone their entire mind is broken or sick. It's similar to gaslighting in its own way in my mind. It's like telling someone they are sick and the only way to get better is by learning how to be well again, but your mind doesn't work either so take some pills and hope for the best. I honestly feel that if at some point someone pointed out that these behaviors can be abusive and that we don't understand that we are hurting someone and explain the difference in perspective, it would have been incredibly more helpful. Like explaining that denial is a coping mechanism that I might be using to protect myself, but that I don't understand that to someone else that denial is gaslighting because it is invalidating their perspectives and emotions. Maybe even pointing out that repressing our emotions is a form of self harm because we fear the rejection and abandonment that we already know, but we don't realize that by living this way we are continuing the cycle. I honestly feel like the reason so many psychiatric professionals fundamentally failed at diagnosing and treating this is the very thing they are trying to teach: perspective. How can you ever begin to explain perspective to someone if you don't understand what it's like to not comprehend perspective. I thought perspective was universal up until a few months back. People existed as I saw them in my mind and people that disagreed were just stupid and couldn't face the facts. I think exactly what I just said is why someone with so much perspective has so much trouble diagnosing and treating someone with no perspective.
@clayboyn the question you are asking is personal one which I can't answer as I don't know you personally. Even if I knew you I wouldn't feel uncomfortable to discuss this on an open forum as issues of confidentiality would have to be considered. If I may suggest an avenue of reflection for you is to approach your question in a different way. Try to get in touch with your feelings that are underneath your opinion about the issue. You might discover something new about yourself.
I'll reflect on that.
Try to feel what are they, but avoid reflecting (there is the difference between Thinking and Feeling).
You already are. Every bit of perspective helps, even if I disagree.