Discussion

As we were saying earlier. The topic you proposed was to use the twelve commandments as the sole legal frame work. For the Congress to discuss.
I am not sure exactly where the conversation went from there. However, I do remember my statement about the Sabbath on a global community. I also started some point mentioning the importance of the Sabbath in the resurrection of The Christ.

Let's go then to the Sabbath of the old testament on the tablets given to Moses at Sinai.

Ex 20:8f.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

This is what I asked specifically about. Not as an attack, but as a genuine question.

To expand,

If this, the law of the old testament, specifically the stone tablets version, were the legal framework we built on, do we keep the Sabbath? Or toss it.

I am in favor of tossing it. There's far more important teachings for us to involve ourselves with.

But you and I were not continuing down the 12 commandments topic you thought. We may have gotten stuck on the actual 10+2 commandments. If memory serves. You are in favor of all 12 commandments today. And by favor, it sounds like you're keeping them right now.

My question to that is do you? ... Keep them?

Oh I'm sure you don't have any idols. Or graven images. And as far as stealing,killing, lieing and such you may be innocent as well. Then Jesus went and expanded adultry. Do you really need a source?

Now that I have asked that again. And brought the scripture that authorized keeping the Sabbath. I will go to the next item.

That is regarding the perfect Law of God.

Psalms 19:1
The Law of the Lord Is Perfect
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David.
The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above[a] proclaims his handiwork

Psalms 19:7f. The law of the Lord is perfect,[c]
reviving the soul;
the testimony of the Lord is sure,
making wise the simple;
8 the precepts of the Lord are right,
rejoicing the heart;
the commandment of the Lord is pure,

In contrast with the perfect Law
: Heb 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.

More on this later.

First, let me revisit another attack on the Law of Moses. Or, to some it may seem that way.

I am not attacking the perfect Law. I am asking do we need it.

For that discussion I want to ask again.

What about the Passover?

This is an earlier Law given to the Israelites that is NOT one of the 10+2.

8 chapters and 40 years earlier than the tablets of stone. The 10 commandments. Dennis Prager favorite. Not mine.

This is mine.

Ex 12:14-16.

14 “This day shall be for you a memorial day, and you shall keep it as a feast to the Lord; throughout your generations,
as a statute forever,
you shall keep it as a feast. 15 Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall remove leaven out of your houses, for if anyone eats what is leavened, from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel. 16 On the first day you shall hold a holy assembly, and on the seventh day a holy assembly. No work shall be done on those days. But what everyone needs to eat, that alone may be prepared by you.

Did you see as a statute forever?

So an honest question to the Law of Moses and it's observance. ... Do you keep the Passover?

I am not talking about the tablets of stone. That came later.

The law of the Passover is forever.

The next chapter in Exodus is about mana and quail that God fed them in the wilderness

before the tablets for 40 years!

and... the Sabbath was a pivotal observation of the feast of unleavened bread.

Did I say 40 years prior to the 10 commandments? Yes I did.

Again. Do you keep the Sabbath or observe the Passover?

Jesus did. Matthew 26: 14f

The Passover with the Disciples

17 Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Where will you have us prepare for you to eat the Passover?” 18 He said, “Go into the city to a certain man and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, My time is at hand. I will keep the Passover at your house with my disciples.’” 19 And the disciples did as Jesus had directed them, and they prepared the Passover.

These were an infallible and permanent fixture in the law of the old testament. If we are going to bind legally, the 12 commandments as you propose as a frame for our legal position. We need to drop the Sabbath, ......

because I don't believe you have any interest in observing Passover. And in keeping with the uncertainty of Passover. We don't need the 10 commandments either.

What's next?

Let's proceed. To the books of Hebrews and Colossians. To start

Heb 7:11f

11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. 13 For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.

15 This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is witnessed of him,

“You are a priest forever,
after the order of Melchizedek.”

18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.

V 19 (for the law made nothing perfect)

I made a very broad statement there. However, the context is about the permanent priesthood of Jesus. A Jew. Not a Levite. Why isn't he a Mosaic priest? It's because the law wasn't permanent. How did he abolish the law of Moses.

Now let's look at Colossians. I mentioned it when I said the law was nailed to the Cross.

Bear in mind thus is not literally a hammer and nail of the law but a hammer and nail of Him

Col. 2:8f
8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits[a] of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities[b] and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.[c]

Let No One Disqualify You
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon

or a Sabbath.

17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,[d] puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings?

23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body,
but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

That's a big discussion. No value in indulgence of the flesh. Remember Heb 7?

Our discussion earlier was " the record of debt" that stood against us with it's legal demands. This He set it aside. Nailing it to his cross.

On to Galatians.

Gal 2:16

yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Gal 2:19

For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.

Gal 2:21

do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Gal 3:13

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—

Gal 3:19

Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.

Gal 3:21

Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.

Gal 4:4

But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,

And verse 5

to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

Gal 5:4

You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Gal 5:14

For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Gal 5:18

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Gal 5:23

gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

How far shall we take this.

I have a whole lot more why I am opposed to the law of Moses in the church or in any framework.

Natural law suits me.

Or this.

Rom.12:9-21

Marks of the True Christian

9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. 10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. 11 Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit,[g] serve the Lord. 12 Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. 13 Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.

14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly.[h] Never be wise in your own sight. 17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. 18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. 19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it[i] to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” 20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Thanks for listening.