Real Life Story #10: The dilemma with Islam and its culture in a nutshell
Since January this year, a family from Afganistan is living in the house, where I live. 4 people, a man with his woman and 2 childen at the age of 9 and 2. They are nice people. They are friendly and always smiling. They want to integrate, they learn german and have plans for the future, contributing to the community. They are aware, that they live of tax-money.
We helped them as good as we could. We gave some clothing from our children, we helped them with papers, we drive them to make their shopping on a regular base and I even give German lessons to the man, a slender shy man, who is always smiling with little stars in his eyes. He makes a quite intelligent impression on me and learns pretty fast.
Last week on monday we (we live above them in the house) heard squeeking sounds, clatter, crying, splintering and shouting. In a splitsecond it was clear as day that this "nice" man was battering his wife like a maniac. My wife and I looked at another in disbelief for a second and then ran both down the stairs to knock, or more hammer on their door, shouting at them to stop and to open the door.
10 Seconds later (and these felt like an eternity) the man opened the door, rubbing his knuckles but smiling as ever, asking what we want. It was clear that he had beaten his wife in front of his two children across the whole appartment. I, full of adrenalin, told him with clenched fists and an almost calm voice, that he has to stop, whatever he is doing now, or I will stop it. I explained that in Germany we don't hit women, and we don't hit children, and that our culture works the way, that everybody takes care of the persons around them. I told him, that I expect him to stop me, too, if I ever loose my temper versus my wife. My wife offered to his wife asylum in our home, if ever she needs it, to be save from him.
He looked at me and probably understood only half of what I was telling and said, that he was sorry for being so noisy and that he will not be as loud again.
Some days later his wife told my wife, that he does that "fortunately not thaaaat often", and that she really must be a lucky woman. This is normal and Ok, according to Islam. She also said, that it was her fault and she will behave better in the future...
Well... I still am thinking how to proceed in future, I still am not sure, if I reacted the right way (if it had been a German guy, I probably would have given him a beating ... but here... "culture"). If we stop helping them with their shopping and the German lessons, it will be a harder time for the woman. And at least, the basic and frightening fact is:
These are settled "normal" and "nice" people, compared to 100 thousands of others, that I've seen around Germany so far. I always was sceptic about this whole immigration wave but now I say it loud and firm:
I don't want this kind of culture here in my land. I don't want this kind of behaviour to spread here in my land. I don't want tax money to be spent on this kind of people.
Check out some facts and numbers. (these numbers are all 2011 numbers, but I doubt this has changed much)
TL&DR
I don't care what you believe in and what your religion is, I don't care what your skin colour is, I don't care where you come from. I even don't care if or what you vote for.
What I care for is, how you act and how you treat other people. If you don't force people to do as you wish and as long as you don't hurt other people (and no, having another opinion does not hurt in the first place), you can do, believe and live where you want to.
Thank you for posting this real life/first hand experience @pollux.one.
A nation can only survive under one culture.......many races...even many religions...but only one culture......
You are being truly magnanimous in your actions, please do not expect anything to change. The culture you are dealing with...is not only their way of life but also their religion.
It is a sad situation indeed. If you are a believer in Christ Jesus and you have opportunity...perhaps you can give the good news of Christianity...the basis for the culture of the Western world.
Religion is man seeking the approbation of God.
Christianity is a relationship with God through His Son Christ Jesus.
For God loved the world so much that He gave His uniquely born Son (Jesus Christ) so that anyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. (translated from the original Greek text of John 3.16)
True, the New Testament to me always has been an inspiration how to live a life. Although I was raised partly by benedictine monks, having had spiritual experiences walking the last 200 km to Santiago de Compostella as a pilgrim, I still remain agnostic, but see christianity as the root and base to understand culture, art, literature of the west.
Thank you for answering my post!
I would hope that all of them don't think it's okay to beat or abuse in any kind of way women and kids. Cultures are different but human nature is the same. Psychology and so fourth. It's a shame that a society would create such a state of violence sanctuary within a family because it spreads in the community. In, America, we have many cultures and if this incident was reported to the proper authority the state would pick it up and charge him with domestic violence. The way you handled it was fair because you have a relationship with them and you are their neighbor. @cleverbot did he not do a good deed?
Who's inventions?
I think the problem with europe is globalism and political correctness. The fact and the reality is that their culture and religious that are just plain evil simple. If you guys don't act fast about these cultures and religious in europe, it will take over you people and this a fact.
Everyone wanting to contribute in a society should be welcome. I am quite extreme in my thoughts... open borders and ZERO welfare by the state. I believe any system that forces people into it, or does not allow to leave is evil.
PC should be what it is... for politicians. I don't care much about what they are saying. I am not a politician, so "political" correctness is just not made for me, so it should for others. PC is a standard for politicians. Period.
Yah, but politicians are the once that make the decisions that affect the society, so it affects those who care about politics and those who don't.
That is a misconception. YOU make decisions that affect your surroundings. Politicians only appear to do so and it applies to those who believe in them. I don't believe in what politicians do, I believe in what I what I think is right. I am forced to do certain things, but I am always aware of that. Most aren't. This awareness could be a good start ;-)
Yah.
Says the nigro from Nigeria where the average IQ is about 65. That is far below the level of intellectual disability.
Steem it is a globalist website. You are criticizing globalism on a platform that endorses globalism.
I know very well that it is people with low IQ that result to been abusive because they do not know how to express themselves.
I can go into detail why the islam culture wil never work with any other culture. But i wil spare you a boring read. I understand why you wanted to help the woman. But to be frank the only thing you could have done was calling the police and let them hear what is happening. Because the woman in islam are not worth anything, it is a commodoty that a man can do with what they want. But if the police hears the beating they can lock him up.
If you wanne learn more about islam and there faith / political system i advice you to read the koran, hadith, sunah. These are the 3 most importad books in there religion. And it wil open your eyes. Because most people only know about the koran, but the hadith is the life of there profet and a example on how they should live. And that is the book that tells them that if a woman disabeys they can hit here, but not in the face and not break there bowns.
In fact, I wasted my time in reading quran, hadith and sunah. I spend whole nights discussing and arguing with several imams from Duesseldorf and Wuerzburg. This did not enlighten me, or gave me a moral understanding that is more plausible to me in any way than what I knew before. I also read the bible (I can't say anything better about the old testament). The biggest problem I see about Islam is, that you cant really divide politics from religion, because Islam is political to its core. What happened in Western Civilisations (separation of church and state, which is still in process for 200 years now) can't really happen with islam.
Btw. police will do shit, if the woman isn't willing to lay charges on her husband.
Thats the beauty of letting police hear or see it. The woman does not need to press charges the police can do it themself as a witness
In Germany ... not. SHE has to press charges, else nothing will happen.
Additionally they take up to 30 min until they arrive.
that sucks
women is only suffering from this because of children future in perspective in ahead of her otherwise who would have didn't even speak a word against it.
No, pretty much the whole afghan female population is brought in a way to always do as men say. After taking control of Afghanistan, US installed a puppet gov and emboldened warlords and corrupt politicians that agreed to be their puppets. Sodomizing of children is fairly common now in Afghanistan which was illegal during taliban rule.
A lot of other badshit like chaining people who are believed to have been taken over by jins, honor killing, rape of women by elders (when a women is thought to have violated her chastity, she will be taken to a local tribal court and then the tribal elders will rape the girl as punishment. Search it on google, it is really true.) are still happening due to a power vacuum.
Cause the current Afghan puppet government isn't seen as legitimate by many people and they fail to provide law and order to the public.
Afghans in many districts take their cases to Taliban courts rather the government cause there is a greater chance of justice in Taliban courts. It appears that, OP's propaganda article isn't really interested in the real problem.
beating is never an option how cruel he is :(
i too have came to know that they brutally do all the violence on the women in the name of religion i don't want to name anyone but its understood already i hope the mindset of people change with time but that doesn't seem to be happening by the way you did the right thing there.
Mindset of the people can't change without proper re-education which won't happen with the current corrupt puppet government that does nothing about boys getting sodomized by soldiers and powerful people (some of which are government officials).
In Afghanistan all men are considered terrorists unless they have proven their innocence to the intelligence agencies. That's basically 99.9% of the men.
is he still do these kind of thing after you warned about that and others too
It has been quiet since I talked to him. Let's hope it stays like this.
It is forbidden and sinful to abuse your wife and children in islam. This woman has a right to a fasakh (annulment of the marriage). There is a misconception that islam allows this. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "The best of you is he who is best to his family, and I am the best among you to my family." ... The right thing to do is report him to the police and to continue to help the woman and her children.
"Abuse" has to be defined. To me it seems that after An-Nisa, 34 it is quite "allowed" to beat ("strike") a disobediant woman.
I am surely no expert in Quran matters, but in any way this is translated, there still remains the beating. Sure there are many of (mostly western) muslims thinking and acting differently there is no doubt about it. BUT the fact that the woman believes that the situation was her fault and that it was rightful of her husband to beat her is for me proof enough that we have a cultural problem here. And that this is one of the problems that is not easy to overcome ...
SHE will not leave her husband (even if she was force-marriaged to him at the age of 14) and says she learned to love him. This is again cultural and will be transported to their children as cultural heritage by setting examples to them.
Please watch this video for the correct understanding of the verse.
Please watch the video for the correct understanding of the verse.
Again "correct" is about definitions. I will have to google 1 min to finde a dozen videos that intrepret it in another way. I spend far too much time in trying to understand quran, bible, tora and writings of buddhism. Forgetting in the meantime, to be a productive good person to those who are close to me.
We could now start throwing verses of bible and quran at each other and discuss how to interpret them. From my point of view this is just a waste of time. Let's just start being decent people without hurting others and trying to help those who are in need and who we care about.
I neither need Bible nor Quran to know that beating my wife is a bad thing. If I have to interpret something differently than it was written to get a moral understanding that is fitting my good intentions... probably it's just useless to interpret it in the first place.
Thomas Aquinius once said: "hominem unius libri timeo" ( "I fear the man of ONE book") and he is totally right about that. Ignorance MUST be the consequence of it, no matter how you define or interpret it.
If you are a "productive good person" to people close to you, then why can't you be a good person to this woman and her children by reporting the husband to the police... Why do you care or worry about their so called "culture"?... Couldn't you just help her when she needed the help or is it German culture to first check the culture of the person committing the crime?.
You are very correct, but i think it was stranger to @pollux.one when he discovered the man beating up his wife because in german culture men don't beat up their wives and so he decided to check the culture and religion of the man.
I helped in the first place by stopping him. I helped further by offering her and her children asylum if she needs it. I helped him by explaining to him how we feel about his behaviour and telling him, that we will not tolerate it in future.
As the man was more concerned about embarrassing me with noise instead of asking his wife for forgiveness combined with her feeling being justly treated I see there a cultural problem.
(it would lead to nothing if I reported him to police, if SHE would not speak out as a witness)
My reason to write this post was to share my observation and my belief that this is a cultural problem, mainly justified by another interpretation than yours of the quran.
No idea why you try to put me in a position to justify my doings instead of coming up with solutions/ideas other than interpretations of overrated books.
Your observation is nothing but an attack on Islam and some 1.6 billion Muslims, if it wasn't, then why would you include a pic of the Quran in your post?. What kind of a solution were you looking for through steemit?... Just do the right thing next time and report him to the police... or is Germany a lawless country?.
I attack any idea, that spreads a totalitarian system. My observation isn't an attack, but just that: an observation And my conclusion is based on a strong correlation and tried justifications such as yours. You say this affects 1,6 billion people... great, the more people are involved, the more important it gets to speak out. Or do you believe that a wrong cause gets less immoral because of more people taking part in it?
It is funny that you keep talking about the police. This indeed would have been a possibility, still I dismiss this as a less good option compared to what I have done (especially with concerns for her and not him). What this has to do with Germany or a land being lawless, I don't really understand.
You seem to be Muslim, so tell me, do you think that Sharia Law should be implemented worldwide? Has this to do with your question about Germany possibly being "lawless"?
I do not mean to come down on islam, but why is there something in the quran that seem to suggest violence even though some people try to say it is mis-interprited like for example jihad.
Jihad is only permissable if it is in SELF DEFENCE. It is easy to quote verses in isolation and to forget about the context that the verse was revealed in... Also islam is based both on the Quran and the hadith of the Prophet (p.b.u.h). Allah (swt) says in the Quran: "Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly." Quran 60:8
Well the reality on ground says different.
That's only if you believe everything the mainstream media tells you.
Ooops. I strongly dislike the mainstream media, you can't even image. This is reality that i know not through any media. I come from Nigeria were there equal number of muslims and christians and the hatred the muslims have for the christains in the muslim dominated areas is un-imaginable. There are several cases that muslims have attack christains for flimsy reasons and killed. These are events i have witnessed, so just leave the media out of it.
@hoosain, you are not reading the book right. Jihad should be waged against the unbelievers. So don't come on here telling jihad is only self defence or jihad is the inner struggle. There are aproximate 100 verses that speak directly and or inderectly about jihad. And yes there are those that speak in defence. But as many that speak in attack.
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle. The targets of violence are "those who disbelieve" - further defined in the next verse (13) as "defy and disobey Allah." Nothing is said about self-defense. In fact, the verses in sura 8 were narrated shortly after a battle provoked by Muhammad, who had been trying to attack a lightly-armed caravan to steal goods belonging to other people.
And i can continue like this for many more verses. So please stop twisting words, we have internet and can do a search.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
I don't know if you're christian or not, but I also have internet and can do a search for some bible verses.
Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Deuteronomy 13:
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.
12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt.
Or Numbers 31, where God commands the Israelites to attack Midian and kill all the men, all the married women and all the male children but to keep the virgin females as the spoils of war and distribute them among the soldiers. The reason offered for that barbarism? Two Midianite women had allegedly “tempted” two Israelite men to worship other gods.
Very good but that is a book that belongs to the tora, old testament. So in theory that is for practicly all the big religions. So congratz you found another evil thing in the islam, because yes the old testament is a collection that is seen as holy aswell in islam :) :D
And indeed in most holy books there are those things that make any human vomit. But to be frank in christianity people evolved above the book and whend on spirituality and not so much around the written word. Islam however is stuck in there political narcisitic ways of conquer and destabalizing the world. Groups like ISIS - AL-Quaida - Boko Haram have one thing incommen, yes indeed islam. They are the radicals of the radicals.
Numbers from all the great inteligence communities speak of 25-30% of muslims agreeing with there ways. That alone should be a flag for the leaders of islam to alter there ways - but they don't.
Woman are a commodoty in the islam world. In the most holy place of islam the woman can't even drive a car. They have no rights and are abused whenever a man likes it. If the woman does not have 3 witnesses she can get stoned for even speaking about it. And those are all facts about islam. I could continue but i guess you wil start hating me for speaking the truth!
Yes, that is correct, the beating remains and only some progressive try to translate it as leave. According to Prophets last sermon: " Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have right over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed whom you do not like. But if they do that, you can chastise them but not severely. Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner."
This is the interpretation from the prophet not normal scholars. I do agree that the verse supports beating if the women is having affairs with other women. But your post is entirely right wing propaganda. You are mixing up Islam with Afghan culture which was shaped by massive propaganda efforts from the US intelligence.
The US has been quite busy over the last years then:
I am not a big fan of US foreign policies but you sir, are brainwashed in many ways, mixing up cause and effect by massive propaganda efforts from the imams unintelligence...
Find peace in your delusion, I don't care, as long as you don't hurt other people (this begins btw with mutilating genitalia). I don't care in which book it is written Bible, Tora, Quran I don't care which barbaric sect you belong to, as long as people are free to leave. You can bite off your own penis it you interpret that in your gory book, I don't care. But hands off others.
If this is right wing... well then I probably am and you are lost in interpretation.
What is the point of the image? The Niqab is worn by mainly in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, both western allies.
You aren't rebuking my argument nor presenting any counter argument but an emotional vague response.
Not exactly right wing cause right wing politics in the west is pretty much shaped by Zionist Jews in the west. The Shapiro you quoted is also a Jew. They want to turn the west and the east against each other to advance their political interests.
I make no argument with you, so no debunking needed. No interest talking about islamic semantics. As I see muslims killing each other over these semantics for centuries, no US involved there.
I don't say that there are no good people in islam. Probably most of them are. You seem not to be able to make a difference between group and individual behaviour, looking for someone "to blame" and finding it in "the jews" or "the CIA". This is very poor thinking, but again very characteristic for people living in sects: Everybody else is to blame.
Shapiro is a guy presenting actual numbers and facts based on (real) science and logic. If I would meet him once, I still would confront him on circumcision and how he thinks about that. Evil is evil, no matter if done by Obama (throwing 10000 bombs on the middle east), by muslims blowing themselves up, hitting their wifes and cutting away healthy body parts from their sons, by germans starting WW2 and killing millions of jews or by jews (Geroge Soros) orchestrating a mass migration to Europe.
If I see evil, I try to fight it with the means I have. I have a neighbour hitting his wife and my question was how my acting on it would be seen by others and how others would have reacted. In my opinion his acting roots in islam and my neighbour even said so.
Please leave me and my blog alone with your antisemitic talks, this I despise even more than your gory book.
how terrible is that and a smile on face still on him such a shame infact