Philosophy - Information Finding Championship - Season 1 : Round 26 entry

in #informationfinding6 years ago

This is my entry for the Philosophy Round of the Information Finding Championship by @apolymask and @ifc.

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First thoughts

I had intended to write a post that was more about the construction of the basic building blocks of Mathematics (set theory) and the fights that surrounded what comprised the foundational theory of Mathematics, but then I thought I would write about something that was perhaps less abstract and closer to what I had studied many many years ago! There are many philosophical questions that are created by the theories of Physics, perhaps some of them are just a limitation on our current knowledge, and others are a deepening of our otherwise limited perspective on the Universe. Perhaps, if my father were writing this post, then he would have chosen the Mathematics one...

However, the topic I ended up upon does seem to echo the fights from the beginning of the last century between the mathematical "formalists", "intuitionists" and "logicians".

So, here is my entry, please bear in mind it has been a while since I've studied this formally so I'm a little rusty! I've also simplified the arguments and concepts as much as possible! Please correct me in the comments if I'm off kilter!

Is Space and Time absolute or derived?

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Since the dawn of modern physics (around the 17th century), this has been a question that has dogged physicists. There have been two concepts of the idea of space (position, not outer space!) and time that have been in competition with each other.

Absolute

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This was the idea that was first championed by Newton in his Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica, the idea that you had a playing field of of Space and Time. These ideas exist regardless of whether you have things in the Universe to play in this field. So the idea is that if you had nothing at all in the Universe, then these things would still exist. It was as if they existed and then the Universe played itself out upon this background.

This idea held traction as it made it much easier to develop a Theory of Mechanics (Classical) that provided useful and actionable insights into the workings of the Universe.

Relativism

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This was the idea that Time and Space do NOT exist without objects in the Universe. First championed by Leibniz (the arch nemesis of Newton!) in his Principles of Philosophy , this notion holds that Space is only the measure of physical separation of two (or more) objects. Time, in this case, is only the measure of change in the configuration of the objects. Interestingly, Leibniz puts forward the notion that the total amount of motion in the Universe is constant (like the total STEEM/SBD produced in each block...). So, without "things", there would be no time and no space. Indeed, with even only one "thing" in a Universe, there still would be no sense to these concepts!

Does it matter?

In the end, mirroring the mathematical dispute from the earlier century, Physics can and has been done without needing to address this fundamental question. However, it is possible that we are reaching a point in our scientific development where it might need to be addressed to reconcile the competing theories of Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity (these two pillars of modern physics address the question differently).

Questions

With Absolute space, you have this incredibly uncomfortable notion that there is a special (preferred) frame of reference. The history of Science has shown us time and time again, that there is no requirement for a "special-ness" to be at the heart of any theory. For instance, there was no requirement for the Earth (or later the Sun, or later the Solar System) to be in a preferred part of the Universe. We are just a backwater star, on the edge of an arm of a particularly unremarkable spiral galaxy.

Relativism (not to be confused with Relativity), is the notion that holds sway in the modern physics world. However, it does bring questions of it's own to the table. If there is no absolute time, then there should be no "correct" way of passing time. As long, as the history of the Universe remains consistent with the laws of Physics, then we could be passing through snapshots of the Universe in any order (not necessarily in "absolute time order").

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To think one day in the distant future our ancestors will look back and wonder why we just could not step out of our box thinking and see the answer. I would love to be on a fly on a wall when they (us), finally figure out the beginning.

I think in the future, we will be looked on as primitive savages! Just like what we think about the Middle Ages in terms of science, human rights and everything else! We don't even need to go back further than a century to find some very distasteful or ridiculous notions (again across science and society)!

Totally fascinating, although slightly over my head - I've read it three times now and I still don't fully understand all the concepts mentioned. That has nothing to do with you post, which is excellent - just my tired old brain is refusing the absorb the information at the moment.

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Thanks, it is something that is much easier to explain in a conversation than by reading! Also, there is something a bit lost in the fact that I have to use words instead of maths. But I fear there wouldn't be a common language otherwise!

Hmm.. That was really interesting. Some things I think will always remain in the realm of philosophy. Though some people definitely think they know the truth of the matter! And either way I'm grateful for the people who take the time to ponder these things. Well.. Some of those people were not so great of people, lol.. Lemme rephrase that.. I'm guess what I'm trying to say is I'm grateful they helped add to our understanding or potential understanding of existence.
Anyways.. I'm starting to ramble. Thanks for the fascinating read and entry! :)

I wish things wouldn't stay in the realm of philosophy! I would like to think of that as areas that have yet to have the light of science shone upon them, but I know that it will always be the case, there will always be things we don't know!

Anyway, continuing from a previous conversation that sparked this post, and then I dodged writing about...

Set theory is/was the attempt to describe what the concept of numbers are. And from there, the various mathematical interactions (like addition and so forth) are just ways of interacting sets.

The debate between "formalists" and "intuitionist" is the debate over whether numbers and mathematics in general is a man-made game with man-made rules or if it is a "real" thing.

Haha. I sort of agree, but I also appreciate the mystery and if we could know everything it might get boring. Also.. Ahh. Okay. I'm somewhat familiar with that theory. My personal opinion is it's a bit of both. I think there are universal numbers and we create our own interpretation of that as well. But hey.. What do I know. :D I admit I don't know much.

This was like having my teacher in front of me teaching .. physics . and I've been thinking if teachers or lectures use Steemit platform as one of their method to teach their students ... those students write their post as an assignment to answer their works given by their teachers I think all of them will scores A's because their teachers need more upvote and as in return teachers will give good marks both will get good amount of SBD or Steem lol .... Good article @bengy cheers

Haha, all student's getting A's! Sounds like an American school that I have some students at. No one fails....

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Great work this was a bit hard for me to vote on but yours stood out the most for me you have my vote

Thanks! This was a while back, so it was interesting for me to go back and re read it!

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