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RE: The War Between Feminists and Anti-Feminists: Everyone's Doing It Wrong
the problem is that women already have all the legal rights as men and even more then men. so feminists already have equality. third wave feminisim is not about equality, it is about superiority. that is why people have a problem with it. oh and the lies they spread like 1in 3 women are raped (a lie) and the wage gap (another lie). oh i just remembered the one and only right men have that women don't. the legal right to have nipples showing and personally I think the titties should be free! besides nipples women have more right then men. what is feminisims end game if they have already achieved equality?
I wouldn't argue that women have equality, and I think that claim is just an extension of the blind, emotional thinking that I discussed in this post. Purely considering who heads companies and political organizations in the US, obviously men are still overwhelmingly running American society. Women do have legal rights. But if you actually try to look at this issue from the other perspective and do research that isn't designed simply to support your own beliefs, you'll find that there are many ways in which women are still disadvantaged. The problem is, like I said, those ways are largely very subtle and often debatable. But this isn't why I say women are not equal to men. I say that because two different groups having different social advantages and disadvantages is not my idea of equality.
"But if you actually try to look at this issue from the other perspective and do research that isn't designed simply to support your own beliefs, you'll find that there are many ways in which women are still disadvantaged."
i have done a lot of research, they are not disadvantaged in any way in fact they are advantaged.
"Purely considering who heads companies and political organizations in the US, obviously men are still overwhelmingly running American society."
the reason that more males are the heads of companys is because they "choose" to work 12-14 hrs a day. women have the choice to do the same and women who do are at the top. its the women that choose to take time off or decide to say at home to raise there kids or whatever choice they make (and they should be able to make that decision) that stops them from becoming the positions of power. in stem research women have 6x more chance of gitting hired then a male with the same qualificaions. and we have a woman running for president. proof that women if desired to put in the work have the ability to become anything they want.
there is a big difference of equal outcome of effort and equal pay. and we live in a world where if you don't put in the same amount of work you shouldn't get paid the same as someone that put in more work based on your gender. that is sexisim!
im sorry but i am going only off facts, not a fan of fweelings.
You aren't going off facts without feelings. You're choosing to focus only on information that suits you. I actually said women have advantages, but you replied, "in fact they are advantaged." You're soapboxing and not thinking freshly. It doesn't make any sense at all that any group in society, especially one that it was OK to physically abuse in the 50's, would have zero disadvantages. You would like for women to have no disadvantages, but they have many. So do men. You can't just say you're basing your beliefs on facts or that you're being objective. You have to actually try to be objective, not just pay lip service to the concept.
"You aren't going off facts without feelings."
what does that even mean? feelings are not facts and facts do not need feelings to be facts.
"I actually said women have advantages, but you replied, "in fact they are advantaged."
if you are saying the same thing as me why are you trying to use that agienst me?
"any group in society, especially one that it was OK to physically abuse in the 50's, would have zero disadvantages."
we are not in the 50's so what does it have to do with the present where physical abuse is looked down appon (and illegal) by 1rst world countrys?
" You would like for women to have no disadvantages, but they have many."
please teach me of this disadvantage they have when eairler in your comment you just said " I actually said women have advantages" ?
" You can't just say you're basing your beliefs on facts or that you're being objective. You have to actually try to be objective, not just pay lip service to the concept."
word salad? O.o
why cant I base my beliefs on facts or be objective? how am i not trying to be objective or "just pay lip service to the concept"? (i honestly don't even understand what "pay lip service to the concept is")
if anything i have said is false, please provide me with some facts based in data with sorces so I can learn how I am wrong. I would appricate facts more then someone just saying I'm wrong but not backing it up with any data.
I will be waiting to hear back from you!
thank you for talking about it and not just dropping to name calling too!
It means that just because you're using facts in your arguments does not mean that your arguments are sound. For example, it's a fact that women make about 70 cents per each dollar a man makes. But as I linked in my article and as you mentioned, that statistic given alone is fairly misleading. So depending on our own biases, we can choose to use, abuse, accept, or question facts as suits us. The way you're using facts here is to only focus on the ones that suit you, and not question those facts that align with your preexisting beliefs.
My point in noting that we said the same thing is that you presented it to me after I had said it one comment ago like it was new to me, proving that you're not reading carefully and therefore certainly not fully thinking about what we're saying here. (You also noted the wage gap in your first comment like it was a new concept here, even though I already mentioned it in my article.)
What does recent history have to do with the present? Everything. The state of the world doesn't change easily. Can a huge social problem dissolve 100% within a lifetime? Unlikely. In this case, I was making an argument based on a very broad concept: that it's extremely unlikely, if not impossible, in consideration of human history and society, that any group at all should have no disadvantages. And to believe that women have none, zero disadvantages, implies severe bias.
"please teach me of this disadvantage they have when eairler in your comment you just said " I actually said women have advantages" ?"
They aren't mutually exclusive. It's possible for someone to have both disadvantages and advantages. For example, a man is more likely to be treated with respect at a car dealership, but conversely, a man trying to work in childcare will meet more barriers than a woman.
What I meant before is that you're SAYING you're being factual and your beliefs are not drawn from emotions. But just saying it doesn't make it true.
I find it incredible that you tried to research the disadvantages women have in American society and came up empty-handed. Do you think you are being sincere in those efforts? Here's just one study I found. In this experiment, lab manager applications were submitted with two different names: John and Jennifer. The applications were otherwise completely identical. Not only was "Jennifer" rated lower on various skills despite submitting the exact same materials, she was also offered a lower starting salary than John. The disadvantage here is that people tend to assume that women are less competent in scientific fields, even if they are equally competent. I could look up factual studies like this all day, but you could do it yourself.
Here's my guess about what's going on in your subconscious mind. You're afraid to admit that women have any disadvantages because you think you'd have to hand feminists everything if you did. But that's not true. You can acknowledge the disadvantages women have and the advantages men have without agreeing with feminists in general. You can dislike people who hate on men without disliking women as a whole. That's much more appealing, fair, and convincing than complaining about the tired old wage gap topic and claiming women have no disadvantages at all. Consideration of reality is the BEST way to fight bad science.