The War Between Feminists and Anti-Feminists: Everyone's Doing It Wrong

in #ideas8 years ago (edited)

I'm writing this because the above-mentioned social war is very bad for everyone involved.

Let's start with the event that propelled this war into the spotlight: Gamergate.
Common awareness of the war between feminists and various others largely began with Gamergate, and was shot back into general public view with the new Ghostbusters reboot. But it had been building for years prior. Although a lot of gamers in Gamergate zealously overreacted without having the facts straight, the deepest underlying complaint -- "this ideology is overtaking quality and truth" -- isn't entirely without basis. But wait, you might say, what does men sending death threats and leaving demeaning comments have to do with a lofty notion like that?

Indeed, almost everyone pounced on the idea that gamers' reactions in that instance, or how they reacted to a transgender character being introduced to a new Baldur's Gate game, were nothing more than misogyny. Why not? It's fun to think, and it's easy to assume. But when you stop and question that explanation for two seconds, you realize that it doesn't make much sense.

First off, who in particular is being accused? According to a 2015 Entertainment Software Association report, 42% of Americans play video games at least three hours a week, and 56% of gamers overall are male. You can't accuse "male gamers" without assuming that about 90 million Americans are misogynist assholes -- which is the epitome of negative stereotyping. Even addressing only the portion that were angered in Gamergate, why would so many people take issue with a woman writing about games? Let's ask this seriously with consideration of human psychology and the complexity of individuals.

Before we get to that, the concept that male gamers intrinsically have a problem with women being involved in the gaming industry is the exact opposite of the truth. Male gamers intrinsicallylove female gamers. Don't forget that gaming used to be uncool just a decade or two ago. Women used to be a considerably smaller portion of the gaming population, and those who played RPGs, MMOs, action-adventure games like Metal Gear, strategy games, shooting games, etc., were rarer still. If your passion and greatest hobby is often boring or even a turn-off to members of the opposite sex, finding those who share that passion is awesome. I know. I've been playing games since I was tiny, from Mario to FFT to EQ to DDR, and if there's one thing I know it's that gamers have traditionally seen female gamers as positively dreamy. If a woman designs games or knows them deeply enough to write well about them, that's even better. Admittedly, this could be annoying when I had to combat stereotypes that women aren't generally as good at games (which is of course going to be true as a generalization when less women have practice at playing them, just like the stereotype about men sucking at cooking used to be accurate overall for the same reason); but on the flip side, kicking someone's ass at something they expect you to be mediocre at is hella fun.

So if men have no particular issue with women in gaming, what's with all the fuss lately?

Well, let's look at it through the lens of the furious reaction to Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear. It's understandable that this reaction was likewise misunderstood. Especially when there are actual bigots mixed in, it's all too easy to interpret the entire opposition as bigotry. But as a general interpretation, it's simply wrong.

This is the meat of the issue: male gamers are not opposed to transgender or otherwise unconventional characters, in and of themselves. How do I know? Because games have included them since long before "transgender" was in common use, to zero complaint from male gamers. "Male or female, what difference does it make? Power is beautiful, and I've got the power." This is a quote from a trans character in Chrono Trigger, which came out in 1995. If anything, games were ahead of the social curve. In fact, such characters have been featured for decades. How about the complaint that there are no strong female characters in gaming, and that women in video games are just sex objects or damsels in distress? Well, that's way off base, too; but someone who's only aware of games like Mario wouldn't know it. Metroid, Parasite Eve, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, StarCraft, Portal, basically every Final Fantasy game ever made, all entries in the Baldur's Gate series...the list of strong, unsexualized female characters goes on and on. Do men have a problem with this? No. They enjoy it. Gamers love creativity and innovation. They like seeing diverse, colorful characters.

What gamers do not like are: being told some things they enjoy about games are bad and must be done away with, like violence or sexy women (why is there anything wrong with sexy female characters if they're balanced by strong female characters as listed above? a weirdly suppressive complaint); having relative outsiders criticize their lifelong passion ignorantly; game quality being sacrificed for the sake of agenda; or having ideological, socially-driven elements shoehorned into games.

Is the trans character in Baldur's Gate shoehorned? Well, it's debatable at the very least. It's obviously a reaction to the recent social climate. Look at this screenshot from the article I linked, put yourself in the shoes of a gamer who's been criticized and ostracized for their hobby for years and is now watching it being tampered with for the sake of social agenda, and you can see it would be very, very easy to draw that conclusion -- whether or not it's correct, how can we expect objectivity at this point? It would be nice, but people aren't perfect. It's a very human reaction. If we want to be fair to our fellow human beings, we have to acknowledge that this explanation makes a lot more sense than, "Oh, they're woman-haters, the lot of 'em." And this is made more obvious by the fact that many of the angry comments include the phrase "SJW" (social justice warrior), which could not be a commonly-used term unless there was history of a social battle. It's a red flag.

I am not defending any of the poor reactions. I am explaining why gamers reacted the way they did. This has been going on for years, and they're sick of it. Unfortunately, instead of calmly discussing their concerns without vitriol, without making violent threats, without jumping to conclusions, and without seeing agenda where there is none, many have been acting like children. Part of this is that there are actual misogynists mixed in. Part of it is that some men are actually becoming more misogynistic because of the attacks on them and their hobbies. Also, gamers have spent many years in games and the Internet. Have you ever looked at a Youtube comments section? Have you ever played an online shooting game? It's not exactly PG-13. These kinds of comments aren't restricted to expressing frustration and anger towards "social justice warriors"; they are the digital climate gamers grew up with.

But gamers, this is where you are making a huge mistake. You're not accomplishing anything by throwing fits; instead, you're only feeding the fire. Everyone is looking at your reactions and concluding exactly what you're mad they are concluding. It's more than ineffectual: it's hurting your cause. Recently millennials complained about a new TV show that makes fun of millennials for being hypersensitive. If you can see the irony in that, think for a moment. Staying calm and accepting facts, taking into account relevant points others you generally disagree with may have -- this is how to get somewhere, and perhaps more importantly, remain a decent and open-minded person.

The gaming issue is a mere microcosm of the overarching war between feminists and, surprisingly, many men who actually aren't misogynists. (Of course, then you have Red Pill assholes and other sorts of assholes.) But, you might say, that doesn't make any sense, because to oppose feminism is to oppose women.

No. It isn't.
As a woman, I will now address what the feminist side has been doing wrong.

I'm not going to bother talking about gaming anymore, partially because the women criticized there, such as Anita Sarkeesian, should certainly not represent all feminists. Let's at least get halfway to an Emma Watson level. I also want to vastly broaden this discussion.

Feminism originated as a fight for equal rights for women as compared to men. At first it was mere demand for basic legal rights, but evolved to include complaints about work discrimination, questioning how women are "supposed" to act, etc. Each decade and generation, it has made great strides forward. In fact, it is probably the most successful social movement in American history, especially when you compare it to the back-and-forth, plodding, violent movement for racial quality. Feminism has achieved so much that the issues it now addresses (rape excepted) are much more subtle, more nuanced, and even more subjective.

A concept involving mass numbers of human supporters, organizations, publications, even classes, and money is like a machine. Feminism, just like socialism, black nationalism, or Satanism, is a social machine. A machine requires fuel. Some such machines, like Satanism, only require supporters. Their objective is to exist. They do not require external change to continue existing, only initiates. Others, like black nationalism, are active by definition. Their very concept is based in action and provoking external change.

What happens to such a machine when change is achieved? What happens when there are no serious opponents remaining for feminism? Does feminism end? If not, does this imply the fight cannot be won? What happens to all of the organizations, the individuals, everything involved? As you can see, social machines take on a life of their own, and they want to live forever.

You couldn't run around demanding that black people be allowed to sit wherever they like on the bus. That fight is history. Why? Not just because it is a fight that was won. There's another reason: because the question of whether it is won is indisputable. All you have to do is look at the laws and the buses. Oh, they are allowed. Good. However...can you demand that black people receive equal treatment? Yes, you can; but what's frightening is that with a concept like that, you can demand it forever, even if it is achieved, because it's too difficult to measure. Worse, it has positive origins, so if it mutates and becomes corrupted, the name will continue to carry it farther than it ought, no matter what the objectives become. Such a cause can use its good name and trappings to quickly shut mouths and minds. You'll notice that just about anyone with a social reputation at stake is very quick to cater to feminist ideology and terrified of being seen as disagreeing in any way.

Feminism is a massive machine that, from its very origins and in its concept, is based in external change. It wants to live forever, and to do that it requires fuel: opponents (whether human or material).

Starting around the 80's, feminism began to grow confused because it began to run out of clear opponents. No longer did laws discriminate against women. No longer did people think it was acceptable to harass women or implicate they were lower quality than men. This has become more true every decade since. Now, in 2016, it's extremely difficult to make the case that young women are at a considerable disadvantage compared to young men. You can try, and there are still some small barriers and genuine problems, but there are so many counter-arguments for much of it. Education is one of the most powerful tools in our society, and women have now surpassed men in college completion rates.

The opponents chosen by feminism have started to become superficial and minute (the design of Barbie, despite the fact that male toys are also unrealistic muscle-bound action hero designs). The opponents are no longer clear; they have to be sought. This forces hardcore feminists to actively look for problems. And yeah, it feels good. It feels really good to complain and argue about something as supposedly inarguably good and correct as feminism. But it also forces many women to reject evidence that women have any social advantages or that men have any social disadvantages, just as the demonized "white cis male" begins to reject evidence that women have social disadvantages or men have social advantages.

The arguments start to become illogical (I have seen it argued that women aren't naturally physically weaker than men, culture just teaches men they have to work out a lot and that's why men are stronger on average; I have seen people in a public debate angrily agree that a man who had been speaking a half-minute shorter than the woman then speaking had been given more time, etc.). When someone is forced to make weak or illogical arguments in order to promote their cause, they tend to become readily angered because people get angry when they feel powerless, and the cause starts to lose legitimacy.

So, the cause has become more nebulous and that has forced some feminists into irrational, emotional behavior, resulting in further loss of legitimacy. Naturally, sexist people will pounce on this; but it also puts a bad taste in the mouth of many non-sexist people. Why don't some people want to identify as feminists? Why do some people roll their eyes or seem repelled when someone rages with feminist arguments? Because too many feminists fucked it up, not because everyone who disagrees is a misogynist. Ironically, men reacting to being mocked and yelled at based solely on their gender are fucking up in the exact same way. There's too much anger and defensiveness going around. Way too much. A lot of people don't wish to be associated with those feminists who cherry-pick, yell people down, or take a one-sided view. People start to push back and question feminism. What to say?

"It's not just about women." Feminism needs to evolve again to stay in good favor. "It's about everyone." The argument for this is that men also benefit when women are better off. It's a good and true argument. Unfortunately, it doesn't change the fact that what it is meant to support -- that "feminism is gender equality" -- is a lie. In various ways, feminism has made it easier for men to be more effeminate, and recently feminism has become thoroughly intertwined with trans movements. However, feminists often do not seem very concerned with average men: "straight, white, cis men." It is positively bewildering to me how someone can react to being mistreated and stereotyped based on their gender by mistreating and stereotyping people based on their gender. You can see how wrong-headed it is to demonize anyone based on their race, gender, or orientation -- even if those align with the groups that currently hold the most power -- when you consider that in having a problem with such men, logically one must also have a problem with straight, white, cis, male children. And what this consideration really brings to light is that too many feminists attack and dismiss people for the sin of their being born.

You cannot do that without making enemies of people who should be your allies. You cannot complain about Barbie but not about Ken without making people scratch their heads. You cannot blindly accept statistics that you like, but research ones that you don't until you find something to disprove them, without stealing legitimacy from your cause. (Example: How many women have bothered to dig into the "women make 79 cents per every dollar men make" statistic? Contrarily, how many men have bothered to question why women tend to win custody battles?) And you cannot ignore the fact that women have it better than men in too many ways to count now, even as men still have it better than women in so many ways, without being forced to dismiss reality. If you can't think of any, that's a big problem.

Feminism has become a hungry machine corrupted by lack of fuel. Its components are grabbing at whatever they can to continue feeding it. Many don't want to hear counter-arguments. Too many can't read something like this without filling with anger, just like the should-be-decent men reacting can't read feminist arguments objectively any more. "Bigot," "sexist," "misogynist," and other names are not replacements for level-headed arguments. "Bitch," "SJW," "man-hater," etc., are not replacements for level-headed counter-arguments.

The number of people engaged on either side of this war who are acting like children is embarrassing as an American, female, and someone with many male friends. I am not on the side of either group. I reject unscientific thinking. I reject single-minded thinking. I reject lack of concern for human beings based on superficial factors and stereotypes. I care that men sometimes feel entitled to sex, that women are raped, that women lack confidence compared to men and can be too readily perceived as weak, etc. I care that men are sometimes demonized, that problems they do have are often dismissed out of hand, that sociological agendas sometimes distort quality or science.

But above all I care about human rights and human equality. None of this is happening out of love. It's happening out of hate. Hatred and poisonous words and actions are mutating either side and forcing people to cling to their views more and more blindly.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you . . .
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!"
-Rudyard Kipling

Sort:  

the problem is that women already have all the legal rights as men and even more then men. so feminists already have equality. third wave feminisim is not about equality, it is about superiority. that is why people have a problem with it. oh and the lies they spread like 1in 3 women are raped (a lie) and the wage gap (another lie). oh i just remembered the one and only right men have that women don't. the legal right to have nipples showing and personally I think the titties should be free! besides nipples women have more right then men. what is feminisims end game if they have already achieved equality?

I wouldn't argue that women have equality, and I think that claim is just an extension of the blind, emotional thinking that I discussed in this post. Purely considering who heads companies and political organizations in the US, obviously men are still overwhelmingly running American society. Women do have legal rights. But if you actually try to look at this issue from the other perspective and do research that isn't designed simply to support your own beliefs, you'll find that there are many ways in which women are still disadvantaged. The problem is, like I said, those ways are largely very subtle and often debatable. But this isn't why I say women are not equal to men. I say that because two different groups having different social advantages and disadvantages is not my idea of equality.

"But if you actually try to look at this issue from the other perspective and do research that isn't designed simply to support your own beliefs, you'll find that there are many ways in which women are still disadvantaged."

i have done a lot of research, they are not disadvantaged in any way in fact they are advantaged.

"Purely considering who heads companies and political organizations in the US, obviously men are still overwhelmingly running American society."

the reason that more males are the heads of companys is because they "choose" to work 12-14 hrs a day. women have the choice to do the same and women who do are at the top. its the women that choose to take time off or decide to say at home to raise there kids or whatever choice they make (and they should be able to make that decision) that stops them from becoming the positions of power. in stem research women have 6x more chance of gitting hired then a male with the same qualificaions. and we have a woman running for president. proof that women if desired to put in the work have the ability to become anything they want.

there is a big difference of equal outcome of effort and equal pay. and we live in a world where if you don't put in the same amount of work you shouldn't get paid the same as someone that put in more work based on your gender. that is sexisim!

im sorry but i am going only off facts, not a fan of fweelings.

You aren't going off facts without feelings. You're choosing to focus only on information that suits you. I actually said women have advantages, but you replied, "in fact they are advantaged." You're soapboxing and not thinking freshly. It doesn't make any sense at all that any group in society, especially one that it was OK to physically abuse in the 50's, would have zero disadvantages. You would like for women to have no disadvantages, but they have many. So do men. You can't just say you're basing your beliefs on facts or that you're being objective. You have to actually try to be objective, not just pay lip service to the concept.

"You aren't going off facts without feelings."

what does that even mean? feelings are not facts and facts do not need feelings to be facts.

"I actually said women have advantages, but you replied, "in fact they are advantaged."
if you are saying the same thing as me why are you trying to use that agienst me?

"any group in society, especially one that it was OK to physically abuse in the 50's, would have zero disadvantages."

we are not in the 50's so what does it have to do with the present where physical abuse is looked down appon (and illegal) by 1rst world countrys?

" You would like for women to have no disadvantages, but they have many."

please teach me of this disadvantage they have when eairler in your comment you just said " I actually said women have advantages" ?

" You can't just say you're basing your beliefs on facts or that you're being objective. You have to actually try to be objective, not just pay lip service to the concept."

word salad? O.o

why cant I base my beliefs on facts or be objective? how am i not trying to be objective or "just pay lip service to the concept"? (i honestly don't even understand what "pay lip service to the concept is")
if anything i have said is false, please provide me with some facts based in data with sorces so I can learn how I am wrong. I would appricate facts more then someone just saying I'm wrong but not backing it up with any data.
I will be waiting to hear back from you!
thank you for talking about it and not just dropping to name calling too!

It means that just because you're using facts in your arguments does not mean that your arguments are sound. For example, it's a fact that women make about 70 cents per each dollar a man makes. But as I linked in my article and as you mentioned, that statistic given alone is fairly misleading. So depending on our own biases, we can choose to use, abuse, accept, or question facts as suits us. The way you're using facts here is to only focus on the ones that suit you, and not question those facts that align with your preexisting beliefs.

My point in noting that we said the same thing is that you presented it to me after I had said it one comment ago like it was new to me, proving that you're not reading carefully and therefore certainly not fully thinking about what we're saying here. (You also noted the wage gap in your first comment like it was a new concept here, even though I already mentioned it in my article.)

What does recent history have to do with the present? Everything. The state of the world doesn't change easily. Can a huge social problem dissolve 100% within a lifetime? Unlikely. In this case, I was making an argument based on a very broad concept: that it's extremely unlikely, if not impossible, in consideration of human history and society, that any group at all should have no disadvantages. And to believe that women have none, zero disadvantages, implies severe bias.

"please teach me of this disadvantage they have when eairler in your comment you just said " I actually said women have advantages" ?"
They aren't mutually exclusive. It's possible for someone to have both disadvantages and advantages. For example, a man is more likely to be treated with respect at a car dealership, but conversely, a man trying to work in childcare will meet more barriers than a woman.

What I meant before is that you're SAYING you're being factual and your beliefs are not drawn from emotions. But just saying it doesn't make it true.

I find it incredible that you tried to research the disadvantages women have in American society and came up empty-handed. Do you think you are being sincere in those efforts? Here's just one study I found. In this experiment, lab manager applications were submitted with two different names: John and Jennifer. The applications were otherwise completely identical. Not only was "Jennifer" rated lower on various skills despite submitting the exact same materials, she was also offered a lower starting salary than John. The disadvantage here is that people tend to assume that women are less competent in scientific fields, even if they are equally competent. I could look up factual studies like this all day, but you could do it yourself.

Here's my guess about what's going on in your subconscious mind. You're afraid to admit that women have any disadvantages because you think you'd have to hand feminists everything if you did. But that's not true. You can acknowledge the disadvantages women have and the advantages men have without agreeing with feminists in general. You can dislike people who hate on men without disliking women as a whole. That's much more appealing, fair, and convincing than complaining about the tired old wage gap topic and claiming women have no disadvantages at all. Consideration of reality is the BEST way to fight bad science.

Loading...

Very interesting and thorough! I think a lot of the changes to come toward social justice are very very subtle and on the individual level, like along the lines of how a short person (shorter than 5'3") is less likely to become a CEO than a woman. The cues and rules we have are not really clear and their causes are not really understood. It takes a very special woman to be able to tell a male over 12 years something he doesn't want to hear without being ignored. I thought it was just a sitcom stereotype when I was a kid, but I'm pretty guilty of it now.

Right, how do we begin to qualify these kinds of social elements? It's so difficult that a lot of the time, people just try to dismiss the entire idea of social factors and demand hard statistics. But not everything can be packaged so concretely.
I think, "It takes a very special woman to be able to tell a male over 12 years something he doesn't want to hear without being ignored," is the sort of comment we need to steer away from. The way I try to think about this is through racism. Anytime you go to make a totally subjective, negative statement about a group, substitute the group noun with "black person." Looking at this sentence again with that in mind is wince-inducing. We've been taught really well about racism, but the contrast between how these two versions of that sentence feels shows an incredible lack of concern for sexism in either direction (despite, imo, racism being a much worse problem in the US currently).

Anytime you go to make a totally subjective, negative statement about a group, substitute the group noun with "black person."

Funny, I think you missed my point. Were I to do what you suggest, my sentence would read

It takes a very special woman to be able to tell a black person over 12 years something he doesn't want to hear without being ignored.

But I suspect you took my sentence as something other than a description about male behavior. And this behavior, may not be universal, but it's hardly subjective. Try this experiment; the next time you tell a guy something and he seems to be blank, but says "I know," that he was listening or gets what you were saying, ask him what you said.

I haven't missed your point. That's exactly what I meant your sentence would read. My point is that it sounds very bad, and that should be a hint as to it maybe being a pretty awful thing to say about a group of people without good evidence.
I disagree with your statement about men because I think it's a statement that simply applies to many people of both genders. Since most of my friends are male, I don't need to experiment; the statement simply doesn't apply to most of my male friends.
But it's not important whether we agree. I didn't write this to increase arguments. What's more important is how this kind of statement influences both your opinion of and behavior towards men, and also how that kind of statement will just worsen relations between men and women when they read it. It isn't a harmonizing statement, and you might ask, what effect will this have on people who read it? Moreover, since it's such a negative one, I think you need strong evidence to conclude and broadcast it.

I just think there's a difference between necessary truth and insults, and I think the way you phrased and grossly exaggerated your comment brings it closer to the insult category.

In the words of Loius C.K "I'm a white man, you can't even hurt my feelings." I realize you're coming at this from a different place. I don't think highly of other men being offended by generalizations about men, especially ones that seem utterly commonplace to a member of the group in question.

My original comment was only to suggest that there are many subtle unconscious habits, which may be changeable. Those habits are what form the actual framework of gender dynamics. I was hinting that focusing on the actual arguments in question might miss the broader problem and solutions. I still don't think that anything I said was objectionable to the group in question, I think they're thick skinned. Turning the phrasing around doesn't really work when the group in question would't take offense.

this whole concept that if someone has a problem with what you say or think, they're not a proper man/woman, is a lot of what's fueling these issues.

No, it's not. Being offended or hurt by meaningless words is the problem, not the speaking or writing of the words. It's the one acting the victim that's the problem. If you believe yourself to be the victim, you can justify all sorts of horrible behavior. Wars are never started because "we want their oil." They're started because "they're a threat to us."

This is the most bizarre exchange I've ever had. You, someone I don't even know, claiming to be a woman, are criticizing me, a man for "saying negative things about men". Frankly, I don't think it's all that negative, and, as a long time white male, I'm pretty comfortable in my habits and the habits I've observed in most other men my entire life.

As for evidence, just google "why men don't listen to women." This article is pretty funny. I doubt you'll find intelligent answers to this from googling the above, but there are many many sources talking about the phenomenon I'm referring to.

And as far as "harmonizing" goes, if any man takes offense at statements I have made about men, I already don't respect his claim to masculinity. That's the thing though, to most men, a man complaining is kind of disgusting, most words that come to mind are sexist in nature. The men you hear bitching about women having more rights than men, simply haven't learned to man up, they're beaten down little victims that deserve a little sympathy and a lot of tough love. Those poor guys need better role models, not you defending them.

It's very interesting to me too. ^.^;

If you look at the exchange I'm having right above this conversation, you'll see that I am not particularly defending men, and to be completely honest...I suspect I generally am more careful not to hurt women's feelings and tougher on men. I just have issues with stereotyping and looking at entire groups in a negative way. I think the way your sentence sounds when we switch the noun says a lot about how negative it is. You're a white male, and you believe what you said. But is it inconceivable that another white male would disagree with what you said? Of course plenty would. And not all out of defensiveness or bias; some just from simply not feeling it's true. So I don't think your habits, observations, or opinions can substitute as hard evidence, or that you can claim to know this just from being male.

I googled this "men not listening" phenomenon. It took more digging than I expected. The strongest consensus is that men are different listeners. This article talks about how men are focused on problem-solving when they listen. This study found that, in a passive listening task, "As they listened, a majority of the men showed exclusive activity on the left side of the brain, in the temporal lobe, which is associated with listening and speech. The majority of women showed activity in the temporal lobe on both sides of the brain, although predominantly on the left." This discussion of brain scans says that, "When you talk, women are more emotionally involved – they will listen more." This study simply said men process women's voices like music. But this one I think is the kicker, as it blankly states that the parts of the brain connected with listening are more prominent in women. So I apologize, it's not so subjective, as you say.

That said, I still question the way you used this fact. How strong is the difference? The brain scan study said that most of the differences between each gender's brains are very minor. So it could only function as a gross generalization, and it would be all too easy to assume anytime a man checks out while you're speaking that this is to blame, regardless of whether that might be true in each case. That's the danger of a stereotype/generalization, even when it's true on average. Nobody wants to live their life being told, "Well, what can I expect from a man/woman." Second, listening and reading are two completely different things, and most of what my article discussed, as well as the article in itself, involve reading. (I was unable to find statistics on gendered reading, although I did find that women read more books and men write more, which mirrors the listening-talking stereotype.)

Third is this question of harmony. In consideration of a lengthy article discussing both men and women being at fault in various ways and entreating everyone to stop engaging in so much hateful speech and finger-pointing, you replied, "It takes a very special woman to be able to tell a male over 12 years something he doesn't want to hear without being ignored," which is a very extreme extrapolation of the evidence we both linked. There's men being less skilled at listening closely than women, and then there's men ignoring everything a woman says unless she is very special. Further, it's much like commenting, "It takes a very special man to be able to tell a woman something she doesn't want to hear without her getting all emotional." The phrasing, the choice to engage in more gender accusations (you being male, in my opinion, doesn't improve it much), these are the kinds of things that aren't going to make anyone go, "Oh, you're right, I better listen more." And this whole concept that if someone has a problem with what you say or think, they're not a proper man/woman, is a lot of what's fueling these issues. Nobody seems to be trying to actually get along. Where is the consideration of what will actually help bring people together, in all issues in the world? It's like children. This problem with men and woman is not a light matter. It ruins people's lives. Was your comment designed to teach, inform, empathize with, or help men? Or were you just throwing out some criticism of men, the same way the commentator above was just throwing out some criticism of women, in the misguided belief that I'd be on your side?
I appreciate your thoughts and how much effort you've put into recognizing the shortcomings of your gender. I just think there's a difference between necessary truth and insults, and I think the way you phrased and grossly exaggerated your comment brings it closer to the insult category.

I'm not talking about whether people's feelings get hurt. I'm obviously not out to avoid truth, ugly or otherwise. I'm talking about being effective. Insulting people is ineffectual. And I'm talking about caring about and listening to people instead of just insulting them and dismissing entire groups out of hand. In short, I'm talking about meaning well.

Sexism isn't about one gender. Going out of your way to stereotype and criticize all men is bad, too, unless you've got some real point to make. You've so far claimed that men ignore most women, that men who get offended by negative stereotypes about them are not masculine, and that men are more thick-skinned than women. I think you're too focused on stressing the differences of the genders instead of seeing people as people. Do you go through life constantly marking men and women this way? It seems counterproductive. Whether or not they're true, these claims just don't seem very useful: people already know they ought to listen to each other. It's one of the many elements of being good to one another that we're taught as children. Instead, why not ask what our similarities are? Where do we agree? How can we get along? How can you highlight other peoples' flaws without pissing them off? It's not easy, with any gender.

So when it comes down to it, what we have here is that you feel that the style of my article is not effective, and I feel that the style of your comments is not effective. Which means one thing: we both want people to improve. I'm a little concerned that you might think it's only men who have areas for improvement, which is the exact kind of polarization I wish I could demolish. Everyone has flaws. Every group has flaws. Feminists and anti-feminists need to come together on their common ground and see one another as fellow human beings.

"Meaningless words" is a really weird way to reference your own words, especially after saying those words were, "hinting that focusing on the actual arguments in question might miss the broader problem and solutions." But putting aside how words have force, I know what you're referencing. I think it's actually more of a feminist problem right now for people to be offended by the slightest words, although overreacting and being deeply offended by free speech has been noted as a standout trait among millennials in general, as I mentioned in my article.

Again, I'm not supporting coddling anyone. There's a difference between speaking harsh truth and dredging up unnecessary facts that are insulting. For example, studies have shown that women have more development in the emotional areas of their brains. So if you're arguing with a woman and she gets mad or sad, you can remind her, "Well, you're a woman, so it makes sense you're upset. What? I'm just stating a fact." There's a time and place for certain facts. There's a way to use them effectively and a way to use them simply for self-satisfaction. Imagine if ten commentators remarked on this article, and every single one included negative gender stereotypes, as has been the case with the two commentators who have remarked. Add all of those stereotyping comments up, and what do we have? A convincing set of arguments? No. We have an inflammatory set of beliefs that emphasize differences and thus are much more likely to drive people apart.

You're focusing on how someone being offended by your comments would be their problem. But that's not my point either way. I'm focusing on how that kind of focus doesn't work, no matter how it makes people feel. Your original exaggeration, if I look at my male friends, is a little offensive to me personally, simply because it isn't true of any of them. You can state that men are scientifically less likely to listen. But you have to make that relevant and you have to present it in a way that men could actually consider. I'm obviously no expert on the topic, but flinging out exaggerated criticisms seems like a really bad method.

And for the record, wars are so very much started for oil and greed. It's just that the story the government tells people is focused on threats (Iraq). Wars are also started to supposedly improve people, like bringing them democracy or saving them (Vietnam). But I don't want to flip topics so extremely.

So let me take my own advice and seek common ground. What do you think is an effective way to help feminists and anti-feminists get along better? How can bigotry and sexism be decreased among both men and women? And how can we do this in a way that embraces science and rationality rather than perverting and distorting them?

Coin Marketplace

STEEM 0.20
TRX 0.15
JST 0.030
BTC 65769.61
ETH 2674.27
USDT 1.00
SBD 2.86