Coding In The Community - Feeling Optimistic

in WORLD OF XPILAR3 years ago (edited)

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Having thought long and hard about how to position my original post on the Steemit.com codebase, the overwhelming response has made this post much easier to approach (although I'm still winging it when it comes to putting thoughts down into words).

Prior to writing that post, I've had various conversations with people who understand Steemit much better than me and they occasionally mentioned things that I didn't understand. As is the case with many of my posts, the real value's within the comments and if you visit the post in the early stages, you'll perhaps miss some of the gold that's found within them. These comments helped me to learn (as usual) and helped me to understand things better so these are some more mature thoughts following those initial ones.

I'll probably still get plenty wrong and I look forward to being corrected 🙂

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Financing

Many of the comments that I received related to helping fund anybody who wanted to work on enhancing Steemit. Suggestions included users committing to upvoting any code-related posts, a 5%/10% beneficiary being the default on any new site that was written and opening up the Steem DAO.

Whilst the first 2 ideas are appreciated, in my opinion upvotes alone won't reflect the level of effort required to progress meaningfully and the beneficiary idea, whilst being able to provide a constant stream of income, doesn't reflect the significant upfront cost involved in developing a site of this size.

The Steem DAO, however, is something I'd heard mentioned before but didn't understand. @remlaps mentioned that it's still receiving funds from the "reward pool" and I've seen that it's currently receiving approximately $150 SBD per hour. @tht shared a link to the current pot, sitting at a fairly significant $2.3m SBD. That's well over $10m USD at today's prices. Having guessed a ball park project cost in the region of $200k, there's plenty of money available even if my calculations are way off.

@remlaps highlighted 2 risks with this though and I'll add a 3rd:

  1. Selling pressure - Any developers working on the code and being paid in SBD / Steem will likely want to convert this into (what's considered to be) real world money. Whilst this is an obvious risk - I'd consider this to be an investment that would see Steemit progress, investors appear and we'd actually see an increase in price.
  2. Accountability - Seeing people trying to abuse the platform on a daily basis, there's a risk that we'll trust the wrong people. I've seen working websites before that were just a load of pictures and a hitmap layered over the top. We don't want to see this and I'm sure that staggered payments or similar checks could be implemented.
  3. Money Grabbing Scum Bags - The DAO was switched off during the infamous Fork War of 2020 and hasn't been switched on since. There's a risk that malicious code is present or something similar which will see this $100m disappear when reactivated. That would hurt. A lot. I wonder if there's another means of accessing these funds though which could be used to provide the much needed investment?

The most important point I've taken from these discussions though, is that there are funds floating around which were designed to be used for the very purpose we're all craving. We just need to work out how to access them safely and get them to the right people.

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Steemit.com Codebase

My opinion on this hasn't changed and I won't be installing condenser ever again. Ever. No matter what the project. So I won't be working with the Steemit codebase in its current form. There are without doubt people who will be able to work with this but I'm certainly not one of them.

Instead, my hope is to work with @steemchiller's API and produce a "proof of concept (POC)" that will be able to demonstrate what's possible and how sexy Steemit could look in the future. I've opted to work with @steemchiller's code for the simple reason that I'm hoping he'll be able to help me understand his API in a way that whoever wrote Steemit's API can't.

Whilst this won't be a fully working and thoroughly tested product, it'll start to give us an idea of what direction we could head in if we commit more seriously.

There'll be 100's of questions and problems in getting any kind of POC to a working product but that's a problem that @future-gorilla can worry about (by the way, if you see @historic-gorilla, please tell him he's an arsehole).

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Please Share Your Thoughts

Thanks to everybody who provided their input with my last post and hopefully this one gives you some optimism that things could change and that we might be able to play a part in making it happen.

For now, I'm going to enjoy a well-earned Christmas break (other than loads of Fantasy Football Updates) with my next challenge well formed within my fragile little mind.

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if you see @historic-gorilla, please tell him he's an arsehole

Ups. I liked him but I do not like to like arseholes... ;-)

hopefully this one gives you some optimism

Yes, it does, thank you.
Of course, I know that there are some projects by private developers running in the background. Well, I suppose so. But it's always better, more "reassuring" to be informed about them - even if it's only plans for now.
By the way, have you thought about forming a work team? I'm sure there are still talented interested people who are simply afraid to tackle "the thing" alone. For example, I know from the German user @sail.far that he is also in the process of understanding the API and working with it. Of course I don't know if your plans fit together, but you can use existing networks (I know someone who knows someone who knows...).

All in all, I think your approach is exactly right: we should stop blaming the negative we are not happy with and do everything we can to give what we can to support our Steem. This can be good content, it can be code development, it can be good curation, or it can "just" be financial support for promising projects in all kinds of areas.

In this spirit, I wish you a well-deserved, relaxing holiday season.
I'm sure I'll like @future-gorilla too and look forward to next year.... :-)

 3 years ago 

Looking at sail.far's posts, it's interesting that he's using ASP.NET. Whilst this isn't a programming language that I have any experience of (other than managing people who do!), it's a language that has a lot of potential developers who can work with it. I also know it's the language that @starlord28 is working with so could be a good language to use. Certainly something to consider if we progress and in deciding upon how to and who should be involved (it might even be best if Steemit employs a Digital Agency local to them instead of the community running with it).

I'll stick to my plan for now and see where it takes us. I know that there are other discussions happening at the same time which could scupper my plans but could also provide fuel to it too 🚀

Ho ho ho. Enjoy your Christmas too (although I'll probably speak to you before)

although I'll probably speak to you before

Oh, that doesn't matter... 😇

 3 years ago (edited)

I also know it's the language that @starlord28 is working with so could be a good language to use.

There are devs like steemchiller and hightouch who do a much better job than me with javascript/node-related libraries/frameworks. I'm trying to be known as the guy who does .NET core/C# stuff. Much easier to be this than trying to do what steemchiller does so frequin well!

Plus .NET is my daily driver. So, it doesn't hurt for me to use it for everything else Steem related.

 3 years ago 

We'll see where I can get to and then we can have a look and see what options we've got. Once I've developed a POC, we'll quickly find out if the DAO's available to support us going forwards and if it is, I'm sure we'll have plenty of developers to work with. I've got to remember... baby steps 🙂

 3 years ago (edited)

-/-

 3 years ago (edited)

I have muted the comment that you've replied to because the user is posting shit so that they can get @justyy upvotes. Their most recent post has this paragraph repeated over and over again -

Karon usa ka popup ang makita nga maghangyo kanimo sa pagpalit o pagbayad. Pag-klik ra sa External aron pagkumpirma ang order.
Pagsulud sa imong e-mail address nga kinahanglan nako alang sa pag-configure => Pag-klik sa Confirm button.

I don't want people like this in my comments who have added absolutely nothing, have no comment on the post he's replied to and has purely selfish motives😡

 3 years ago 

Sending this one to justyy's blacklist.

Vote declared.

 3 years ago 

I tried getting in touch with @sail.far on his post. So, the thing that is kind of hindering development on Steem, apart from the lower support from Steemit right now, is the lesser number of libraries that would help us build DApps/tools on steem.

Me, for example, am not very familiar with Javascript but have found a way to work that into .NET core application of mine to get things done. II would love to have a chat with @sail.far as I too had plans to maintain a good code base for us .NET devs(I'm kind of biased that way lol) I haven't heard back from him yet. I really want to discuss a particular idea with him if we could chat even in some comment section. Though I'm not sure how big the language barrier is. And I've had a few bad experiences with Google translate as well. So, don't want to mess it up if there really is a language barrier.

So, don't want to mess it up if there really is a language barrier.

Oh, I don't think so, English is fine.
But I don't really know sail.far and I don't know why he doesn't answer you. Maybe he doesn't perceive anything anymore because he only sees codes... ;-)
I don't know anything about programming, I don't understand your comment (programming languages) nor sail.far's posts. I only understand that you all want to understand and that's good because it means development. Development is life, stagnation is death....

 3 years ago 

The next time he posts, I will be right back in the comment section(If the post is about programming)😅

 3 years ago 

I like that you managed to gather in the comments people who are not indifferent to the fate of Steemit. It would be great to keep them together, but as we have already discussed, everyone has their own community and works there.

I liked the words @chriddi

we should stop blaming the negative we are not happy with and do everything we can to give what we can to support our Steem

I asked @steemitblog to comment on your previous post. After that, the comment SC01 appeared. I doubt these are interrelated, but the content of the comment highlights the SC team's interest in further development. Therefore, we are not alone, although we all together do not have a decisive word.

You have a chance to unite all the most enterprising, caring people of Steemit. This requires a large project, and creating a new frontend can be such a project.

 3 years ago 

Hopefully we can get the kind of backing that I've suggested but I don't know how easy it will be. If the Steemit team can upvote a proposal in the DAO. then with the community also upvoting it, it should get enough support to get going. And then if at any point it's felt that we're heading in the wrong direction, the Steemit team or community can withdraw their support and the funding can stop. It makes a lot of sense. Especially if there's a risk that fully opening up the DAO again will see the 2 million SBD disappear.

 3 years ago 

Sorry for my pessimism, but I don't think the Steemit team will give you access to that money. I think you can count on upvotes from steemtsurator01 and the support of all concerned people in Steemit.

 3 years ago 

Ha ha - I thought I was the pessimistic one 🤣

I don't see why they'd leave it there if we could find a good development that the money could go in to.

 3 years ago 

What is your next step, apart from celebrating the holidays, of course? Will you create an proposal? I will gladly support it. I just need a little bit more power of my voice to put your proposal on the first place 😁.

 3 years ago (edited)

I'll start off by trying to find a free HTML / CSS layout that looks like it will work well with Steemit. I've found this site which has a few designs that could work well (I'm searching for "Free HTML / CSS news templates"). Once I find one that I think will work well, I'll download it and make sure that there aren't any obvious errors in it (a lot of them come with bundled JavaScript which is poorly written).

I'll then segment it into separate components that I can write some code around so that the page can get automatically generated from steemchiller's API and then I'll do that. I won't try anything too clever just yet but once I've got that working as a "proof of concept", I'll see if we can get it in front of the Steemit team, possibly along with some milestones or something to see about some funding. I expect them to be cautious with this but hopefully it will get support. If we can get the financial support required, then I can commit more seriously to the project 🙂

 3 years ago 

That is, you do not need to install a virtual server and engine. With the API, you will receive data from Steemit, and the template will be replaced on the user's side. Did I write nonsense?

 3 years ago 

Some correct - The API will give me the data from Steemit. I'll need to host a website (with domain name) that will take the data, modify it and make it look pretty.

Hopefully, I can find some free hosting - if not, I'll probably ask somebody that I already know is running some websites to host it for me. Getting a good domain name and reliable hosting is something that I can worry about at a later date.

I think that this shouldn't take very long to do when I can find the time to do it 🙂

The voting system for the SPS/DAO was poorly designed when it was implemented. The only voting options are to either support or abstain from projects, with the idea of "good" projects getting more support than a baseline "don't fund anything" project. In order to prevent zombie / malicious project from getting funded the Steemit accounts are voting "don't fund anything", but their votes are so powerful that it's unrealistic for anything else to be able to beat that without getting support from them. But that puts them in an awkward ethical / optics position, because they don't want to be picking and choosing who gets funded from the DAO. So the DAO is currently nothing but a drain on the rewards economy that's accumulating a huge amount of funds (which, IMO, is something of a risk because that's a big pot of funds that someone who suddenly becomes a new "top dog" would have near total control of).

 3 years ago 

That's very interesting indeed. In theory then, if I can produce a proposal and my proof of concept is something that the Steemit team buy in to, we could get their support, their voting approval and subsequently, funding to proceed further. This sounds promising. Do you have a link to the proposal system?

The big risk that you highlight could very well come to fruition. Steemit is no longer the most powerful individual user (although it probably is if all of the accounts voting power are combined). Like I said in my post, that would hurt. A lot!

I'm not sure there's a great UI or documentation of the proposal system, I think SteemPeak had a system for it but they stopped, and the developers and advocates for the system were involved in the witness wars so some of their posts explaining it may not be easily visible. The steemit menu on the upper right has an option for "steem proposals" that takes you to https://steemitwallet.com/proposals and lets you see current proposals, but I'm not sure there's a UI for creating new ones. If it were me I probably wouldn't bother trying to create the proposal unless Steemit was open to it and there was broad consensus about a way to make that system work going forward. (Personally I think it makes sense for Steemit to be uncomfortable acting as the de facto sole arbiter of who gets those funds).

 3 years ago 

I see what you're saying about the proposals system - I've got no idea where I'd start with that but I'm fairly sure it'll be possible to track down some smart cookies who know how to use it.

I think Steemit will be open to ideas if we can present them with something that appeals to them.

Similarly, I don't think Steemit would be uncomfortable being the de facto sole arbiter in deciding who gets any of those funds. They bought Steemit and as things stand, we're all waiting for Steemit to do everything anyway - Make all of the decisions, create a roadmap, write all of the code to deliver that roadmap whilst we're all sat here waiting for it to be delivered to us. i.e. we're waiting for them to spend "their" money improving Steemit for all of our benefit. With this approach, they get what they want and arguably, don't have to pay for it.

Do you have a link to the proposal system?

FWIW, here is the "go live" announcement, I guess - Steem.DAO UI Live on SteemitWallet. That includes a link to a 3rd party web site for submitting proposals, SteemProposals.com. That site still exists, but it looks like it could use some TLC, and it looks like the developer left Steem about 2 years ago. I have no idea if it's secure or if it can still submit proposals. Apparently, the proposal fee is 10 SBD. Here is a description of the create_proposal broadcast op if you have the means to roll your own submission form.

 3 years ago 

Thanks for that - worth reading and if we know that Steemit will support a proposal than it'd even be worth the 10 SBD submission fee. If we're less confident though, I'm sure we can find somebody who'll be able to use the create_proposal without too much effort 👍

It's interesting reading the original launch post and some of the comments that came with it. Especially this bit...

The reason this is important is because it demonstrates that the Steem.DAO does not have to be used to fund the development of features for Steem or steemit.com (though it certainly can be). The Steem.DAO is a decentralized funding mechanism which distributes a liquid stablecoin. The possibilities are limitless.

Personally I have been thinking about suggesting that if it's not being used for anything else the DAO should be funding a bot that sells SBDs and airdrops the resulting steem to active users of the platform to try to improve the distribution of Steem.

 3 years ago 

It would be nice to see something done with it.

 3 years ago 

Not being a programmer from the word at all ... however, I do not lose hope for a change for the better. I do not exclude, of course, the opposite situation, but only time can be a witness.

The fate of STEЕMIT is not yet clear, after Justin Sun left TRON. On the one hand, it is good that there is a certain amount for development. On the other hand, it can cease to exist for various reasons.
Although until now its existence has not brought any benefit.

Do you see a gopher in this field? Not?
And he is there.

The question is how to keep it and make it work.
In any case, take care of yourself and your family and enjoy the New Year holidays together.

Cheers 🖐️ 😊

 3 years ago 

Do you see a gopher in this field? Not?
And he is there.

This is a new expression to me and I'm not sure I understand it 🤔

We'll see where this roads take us. There are other roads and other people travelling on them. Perhaps our paths will cross and perhaps some roads will end. I have some good travelling companions so at very least, we will enjoy the journey.

I hope you have a good break too and we'll have a positive new year 🥳

 3 years ago (edited)

Do you see a gopher in this field? Not?
And he is there.
That is, if you do not see something, this does not mean that there is nothing there 🤣 😂

Yes, you can get pleasure even from the process itself, I agree. It's always interesting. Large systems have some stability margin. STEEMIT is a big enough system. It will be interesting to test the theory in practice.

On the other hand, during the period of my stay here, certain interests and circle of contacts have developed. I have acquired a lot. I would not like these relationships to be violated.

I do not know how all this will end, as well as world madness now. But life goes on and the roads don't end while you're alive🖐️ 😊

 3 years ago 

But life goes on and the roads don't end while you're alive🖐️ 😊

Sometimes we must take a couple of steps back in order to advance 🙂

 3 years ago 

you're damn right buddy))

hello gorilla Read your post gives me hope to know that there are users who live the Streem thought and believe in it.
Thank you for that 👍❗️
VgA🤗

 3 years ago 

All hope is not lost yet 🙂

I think it is important to make proposal and come up with your "business plan" like usually it is done in any enterprise and then to discuss with SC01, that is something they suggest in their last comment to your initial post.

I general I think for the Stemeit Team it is better when someone will come with ready plan and they just need to either approve the project and fund or not. I have a feeling that they still are interesting to run this project "Steemit" therefore, if it will bring new features they will accept it, why not?

 3 years ago 

Funnily enough, I was thinking about it in the same way that we would pitch a project to a client. Take something pretty that everybody can see, touch, play with and get excited about. Then tell them how much it will cost and how long it will take. Then let @future-gorilla work out how to do it 😄

The only thing to lose is time. My precious, precious time 🕰️

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sitting at a fairly significant $2.3m SBD. That's well over $100m USD at today's prices.

I think that should be $10m. It's a nice "war chest", but unless I'm mistaken, not quite $100m. ;-)

 3 years ago (edited)

🤔 2 x 5 = 10.

Oops. I've edited that bit!

Another "interesting" thing about me - I have a degree in Maths (and computer science) from at the time, the UK's top university for Maths.

lol. Easy to do.

I have a degree in Maths (and computer science) from at the time, the UK's top university for Maths.

Nice to meet another math geek!

My bachelor's degree is in math too. Not from a top university, though, and it was soo long ago that I need a web reference for anything beyond basic arithmetic these days. I even broke out the calculator for "2 x 5 = 10" to try to make sure I wasn't confused before hitting "Post" on that comment. ;-)

 3 years ago 

Ha ha - same here. My algebra's still pretty good but if you give me a definition, theorem and expect me to prove a load of corollary's then that's not going to happen!

Even though I don't know anything about coding but going through your recent posts, the proposal you have made seems very very promising. With the steemit team at your back, I think all of us in here can feel a bit optimistic about steem's future

 3 years ago 

Fingers crossed 🤞

Thanks for sharing your valuable post with us

This is awesome collection.

Stay connected

 3 years ago 

Thank you - hopefully we can make some progress soon.

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