Split The Soulkeeper

in CEO Champion's Gate4 years ago

Soulkeeper has a forbidden +6 upgrade from + to ++. I suggest splitting the "wazir ghost" soulkeeper and the "king ghost" soulkeeper for the kingattack nerf, as that would only make the upgrade cost increase even higher as it's pretty much the same kind of defense as Pyromancer.

PieceMaker-SoulKeeper.png

Soulkeeper, still with a high-value upgrade to change 8 teleports to yellow swaps for +5 value.

PieceMaker-SoulLord.png

SoulLord, the one with the king ghost. +++ is a powerful swapper but can't trade for anything.

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I keep coming back to this and couldn't decide what it is about it that doesn't seem right, and although I am super lazy to make a unit split it is actually something else... something isn't right...

and now I realize what it is.
These units are the same.
This is like 8 tiers of the same unit, when instead it could be a refined soulkeeper plus something entirely new.

To make this a more reasonable thing to say, look at lilith vs. soulflare, and imagine soulflare was instead just lilith without diagonal charm.

Better phrasing: imagine soulflare was actively updated into a mini-lilith without diagonal charm, removing current soulflare entirely. I think that's the problem here - by adding a new soulkeeper unit which is basically the same, it preemptively erases whatever diversity that could have been added in its place, such as soulkeeperflare or w/e, lol.

for this reason, I think the idea of a unit split is very likely to be incompatible with units that have some semi-unique movetype/effect, unless the divide between the two is so wide as to make one look like a minion compared to the other, or some 'twist' is added onto the new one to split their identities apart from each other along with the moveset itself.

It sounds like a good idea. As popular as the piece is, it would make sense to make another similar one to begin with. It does make more sense when a piece stays near the same points cost while upgrading their ranks as well. What Kerdon said is also valid, it should stay a legendary. The 'lesser' Soulkeeper piece could be called Soulbasker or Soulseeker. There are plenty of names to choose from.

I personally don't like the idea of giving it range 2 jump attack on every square, only dragon has that right now and it's something that's pretty devastating without a bunch of kingmove defense. People tend to have a lot of that right now though, perhaps marginally less after the update nerfs ghosts. I ran a lot of ghosts in my decks.

This would be a good update for Soulkeeper itself, in my opinion:

Soulkeeper.png

Soulbasker, the less expensive (epic) piece, could look like this:
Soulbasker.png

The costs might be off on Soulbasker but I feel it's a decent starting point. The adjacent 4 squares could be changed from move only to teleport if less move types is more of a priority.

Soulbasker doesn't gel with me. It's not costs, it's binding. You do realize base Soulbasker is doublebound and Soulbasker+ is colorbound right? Making the weaker Soulkeeper basically a dragon is probably too much for +5 cost actually.

I had nerfed costs on the stronger Soulkeeper because it can defend like a king. I kinda like the swaps but that feels more natural despite all upgrades doing the same thing.

The last tier has something I've felt was really really lacking in CEO, units being expensive at base. Almost all the 20+ cost units in the game are ++ or +++.

-main_gi

If you are going to degrade what I farmed as legendary into epic, and introduce its newer version as legendary, that really sucks from collecting POV. At least, make the legendary as soulkeeper (so I keep it in collection with same "progress" of unit count towards higher tiers), and make the new unit epic (switch their names in your suggestion). Also @ main_gi, we got archbishop and fortress in most recent (last) patch, as highly costed base units :) .

Thinking out loud about high costed units (from base):

  1. cost is justified for the power => base must be strong already
  2. relative power increase goes up in line with relative cost increase in tiers => adding moveset / abilities, that would increase cost on cheap piece by 1 or 2, is more expensive here, so the cost rises quicker
  3. all tiers being desirable, but not becoming 1 man army (esp. +++)

Points 1 and 2 build up for 3 to be very coin-flippy. If ~ 30 (on +++) of your morale as single piece can get easily countered, its "useless". If it can't be effectively countered by not inconsiderable portion of armies / players, it's OP. Also including them in your army makes matches more RNG-dependent on what you get matched against.

I'm certainly not against new units of any kind, but I imagine low- or average-costed units are easier to adjust for potential problems / balance.

Yeah and they're Epic and Legendary. Also 16 is mid-cost, not high. Ree.

-main_gi

probably a good idea to make the king-version the legendary SoulKeeper, and the one with wazir ghost something like a SoulBearer or something a little less esoteric.

Alternately, just take SoulKeeper from this as a SoulKeeper change suggestion, though gaining 8 spots of attack out of the blue might be too strong

Can we change SoulKeeper++ and +++ by only adding two ghost squares at a time? That wouldn't be a huge change, but it might be enough so that the jump from + to ++ remains inside the 5-point margin. (Unless the ones you add first are the back-diagonal squares, in which case +++ becomes the new ++, which might piss off the collectors and stuff)

 4 years ago 

This post has received a 37.81 % upvote from @boomerang.

 4 years ago Reveal Comment

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