South China Sea: Why it matters and why it’s the way it is. 中国南海:为什么它很重要而且为什么事实是这样的.

in #history8 years ago

Being a Canadian living in China almost 4 years now I get some unique perspectives from both sides of 9 Dash Line argument.
作为一个现在在中国生活了四年的加拿大人,下面说一下我对于这个九段线的个人看法

By the end of this article you will have a whole new perspective on the South China Sea issues. Both Chinese and Westerners will better understand why The Hague ruled against China’s historical claims.
在文章中最后一段你会看到所有对南海问题的观点.中国人和西方人对为什么海牙规则违背了中国历史的说明这一说法会有更好的了解.

The 9 Dash Line is the part of the South Pacific Sea that China has claimed and currently dominates. It is contested by many countries that share borders and hold islands in that territory.
这所谓的九段线是南太平洋海域的一部分,是中国已经声明并现有的统治范围内.九段线让很多国家引起了争议,那便是共享边界,拥有该领土上岛屿的主权.

Recently as many of you know The Hague declared that China’s historical claim to the 9 Dash line territories was irrelevant. That really pissed off China and its citizens. The Chinese people are very patriotic and it’s easy for the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) to get its people all excited and emotional about issues like this.
目前如你所知,海牙已声明中国对于九段线领土的历史证明是无效的.这让中国和它的人民感到气愤.中国人民都很爱国,而且这对CCP(中国共产党)让人民对于这类的问题感到兴奋和情绪化.

There are many valid arguments on both sides of the issue. Making things worse many involved nations governments bounce back and forth between submitting to China and standing up to them.
这有很多关于这个问题比较合理性的争议观点.让事情变得更糟的是,许多参与的国家的政府在向中国屈服和支持中国之间反复徘徊着.
http://www.solarthings.ca/single-post/2016/06/07/China-Solidifies-Its-Ties-With-Vanuatu
http://www.solarthings.ca/single-post/2016/07/06/Cambodia-Signs-On-With-China-in-South-China-Sea

China has claimed that for 2000 years the South China Sea was at least used for fishing. At the same time many other countries are able to claim the same thing. Very few historical texts are able to back up claims on all sides from before 2000 years ago.
中国声称中国南海曾经在渔业有着2000多年的历史.在同一时间其他很多国家也都在说一样的话.现有极少的历史性材料支持这2000年以前的观点.

Let’s take a very brief look at Chinese and Western history on territory and who controlled what at which times. These are historical facts backed up by both Chinese and western historians. Plus some of my own opinions from conversations I’ve had with Westerners living in China and local Chinese people.
让我们简短的看一下中国和西方国家在领土问题上的历史以及在哪一时期由谁统治的这一问题.这有一些由中国和西方国家的历史学家对此支持性的事实依据.另外加上我与在中国生活的西方国家的人和我与当地中国人们之间对话的一些观点.

2000 (221bc) Years Ago
2000(公元前221)年以前

China has officially united as one country after centuries of war with rival factions. The Qin Dynasty (221bc – 206bc) was short lived but set the path to what China is today. He began building the Great Wall of China to keep out Mongol hordes and possibly ghosts and evil spirits. The Qin was quickly overthrown and replaced by the Han Dynasty.
经过几个世纪的战争与敌对派系,中国正式团结成了一个国家.秦朝(公元前221-公元前206)时期很短暂,但它的建立是为中国的今天铺路.秦朝时期建造了中国长城,用来阻止蒙古游牧民族和可能成为幽灵的邪恶思想的入侵.秦朝很快地被汉朝推翻,随后汉朝建立.

The Han Dynasty (206bc – 220ad) is important when it comes to historical claims to the 9 Dash Line. China was unified, it was moving forward as one nation, conquering surrounding lands and territories.
汉朝(公元前206-公元220)是证明九段线的重要历史依据.中国的统一,作为一个国家整体在向前进,征服周围的领域和领土.

Maps of China during Han Dynasty 汉朝时期的中国地图

These are indisputable borders historians documented throughout history as being parts of China.
通过历史记载,毋庸置疑,这些由历史学家提出的材料可以证明南海边界自始至终都是属于中国的一部分.

Now, let’s take a look at the western super power Rome at the same time. It is well known that China was far superior technologically during this time and throughout history but that is for another article.
现在,让我们看一下在同一时期西方超级大国的罗马国家.众所周知,中国在这一时期科技迅速发展并且贯穿整个历史,但那是为另一个题材.

Rome at roughly the same time had conquered most Europe, parts of North Africa and expanded east. 116ad
公元116年,罗马在同一时期征服着欧洲很多的国家,北非的部分地区并扩张到东部

The next big time in Chinese history for territorial claims is the Yuan Dynasty. This dynasty took over the last remains of the pure Chinese hierarchy they were known as the Song Dynasty. They Yuan were essentially dominated by the Mongolians under the leadership of Kublai Khan.
对中国领土历史性的说明的下一个伟大的时期是元朝.这个王朝接管了中国持续到最后的最纯粹的遗迹,他们被人称之为宋代。元朝基本上是由蒙古人忽必烈统治.

This is where Chinese history is really complicated because there are internationally recognized facts and then some denial on both sides of the argument.
这个地图展示了中国的历史是非常复杂的,因为有国际公认的事实,然后一些人否认了双方的论点。

A few years before this time in 1279 and 1281 Kublai Khan was in control of northern China including Beijing and China’s birthplace Xi’an. Even so, the people living there were very much Han Chinese and they also had high positions under Mongol leadership. In both of these years Japan was attacked by Kublai Khan.
在1279和1281之前的几年里,中国的北部包括北京和中国先前的首都西安都是在忽必烈的统治下.即便这样,生活在那的人都是汉人而且在蒙古族的领导下也有着很高的地位.在那些年里日本也被忽必烈攻击.


What makes this important is that modern Chinese locals I talk to always say Japan started the wars (pre-ww1) with China and they only want revenge. They don’t recognize those attacks as Chinese attacks on Japan but rather Mongol attacks on Japan. That same leader who attacked Japan went on just a few years later to control all of china (as in the above map). Now it’s during the Yuan Dynasty, essentially Mongolian rule, that China is referencing its territorial claims today. They are using Yuan dynasty maps. Now it’s confusing. (Technically Mongolia should be making claims. Ha-ha)
值得注意的是,现在我接触交流的中国人都在谈论是日本挑起了与中国的战争(第一次世界大战前期),他们只想复仇.他们不承认那些攻击是因中国向日本挑起而宁愿承认是蒙古族袭击了日本.同样是那个攻击了日本的领导人只用了几年的时间统治了全中国(如地图所见).元朝时期,基本上是蒙古族的法规,这也是如今中国引用的领土声明.他们在用元朝的地图.现在如实有些疑惑.(严格意义上说蒙古族人应该做此声明.哈哈哈)

My point is still that the historical evidence is irrelevant to why The Hague ruled against China’s historical claims.
我的观点仍然是,历史地图的证据对海牙法律反对中国的历史性声明是不相关的。

Let’s look at the western power Rome at this time in 1271-1368ad
让我们看一下在公元1271-1368这一时期的西方力量-罗马

Much smaller than its impressive western domination from centuries earlier.
从几个世纪前来看,它给人印象深刻的西方统治要小很多.

Now let me fast forward and to the point of this debacle. Here is a comparison of the Roman Empire at its peak and what’s left today. As well as China at its peak (from their perspective, it’s only fair) and what’s left today.
现在让我快进到这个问题的崩溃点.这是罗马帝国在其鼎盛时期的一个比较和今天所留下的地图.以及中国在其巅峰(从他们的角度来看,这是公平的)和中国今天所留下的地图.

China then and now.中国的以前和现在


Roman Empire then and now罗马帝国的以前和现在


So here is the point. This is the reason why The Hague rule the South China Sea is not Chinese territory due to Historical claims.
那么现在说的是.这就是为什么海牙法则指出中国南海不是中国领土的历史性的原因.

Just because a country was once dominating a huge area of the world, in total control but at some point in history lost that control. Does not mean they automatically get to take it back.
The reason for this is it sets a bad precedence for other countries that also once had huge control over other parts of the world.
仅是因为一个国家曾统治了世界其中的一大部区域,完全的统治但也在一些原因上失去了历史的统治.那并不意味着他们可以自动去索要回来.不仅是因为它为其他国家树立了一个比较糟糕的优先权,而且也曾对世界其他地区有过巨大的控制权。

Such as Rome. Imagine if Rome suddenly said Europe and Africa belong to them simply because of historical facts. Or if Iran claimed the historic Ottoman Empire. Or what if the Mongols suddenly wanted their historical territory back?
就像罗马.如果罗马突然说欧洲和非洲属于他们,仅是因为历史原因.或是伊朗指出有关奥斯曼帝国的历史.又或是,万一蒙古突然想要回他们历史的领土主权?

You can see why the historical claim cannot and never will be accepted by the rest of the world.
从这些你可以看出为什么历史性的声明不能也永远不会被世界上除此之外的国家所接受.

I am not outright saying that the 9 Dash Line is not China’s historical territory, both sides can see the merits of this argument. I am saying that China can’t claim historical rights to places where other nations, cultures currently live. China needs a different reason than history because if we use all the facts not just the ones we pick and choose many past nations will want their territory back.
我并不是绝对的说九段线不是中国的历史领土,在这一争论中双方都有理.我的意思是说中国不能以历史名义安排其他国家的位置,如今生活在当下的文化中.中国需要一个不同于历史的理由,因为如果我们用了所有的事实,而不仅仅是我们所选的那一个和许多过去的国家想要回他们领土的那个依据.

I understand this is a very touchy subject in China and my intentions were not to offend China. Just pointing out what my life experiences and conversations with people have led me to believe.
我知道在中国这是一个非常敏感的话题,而且我也没有侵犯中国的意思.只想写出我生活的经历和与人之间的对话所引导我去相信的观点.

https://app.slidebean.com/p/tS5lVta3qS/Ancient-China-Han-Dynasty#2
Cool interactive historical map. Worth checking out.
很棒很有意思的历史地图.值得点开看看

If worse comes true China and America will have an epic war annihilating each other allowing Canada rises to the top.
如果最坏的结果是中国和美国将有一场消灭对方的史诗般的战争,那以让加拿大上升到顶端.

https://drawception.com/game/RbsCntqS6O/when-canada-will-rules-the-world/

<http ://archive.artsmia.org/art-of-asia/history/images/maps/china-han-large.gif
http://w ww.timemaps.com/store/timemaps/2012/5/china200ad.jpg
http://ww w.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/greatwall/Allabout.html
http:/ /core.ecu.edu/hist/tuckerjo/han.jpg
http://spo tlight.britannica.co.uk/PDF/ancientRome_pic1.pdf
http:/ /ancient-rome.com/hist_f.htm
http://ww w.justitaly.org/images/italy-map01.gif
http://ww w.nationsonline.org/oneworld/map/Chinese_dynasties/Song_Liao_Xixia_Map.htm
https: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yuan_Dynasty_1294.png
http: //ww w.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?418344-Why-the-Hate-against-the-HRE-Pls-no-flaming-and-pls-stay-on-topic-ty
https: //citroen.navigation.com/static/WFS/Shop-CitroenEMEA-Site/-/Shop/en_GB/CitroenEMEA/Citroen_navigation_maps_Italy.png
http://w ww.rfa.org/english/news/vietnam/sea-07252013220917.html/SEA-ninedash600.jpg

Sort:  

Map sporadic areas captured by the Qin Dynasty of The 100 of Vietnam ethnic groups (百越) south of the Yangtze River after the year 210 BC.

Ancient times, the Chinese referred to the peoples living in the south of the Yangtze River( 長江 -扬子江) is a generic name Viet. Starting from the Han dynasty, history is often said to Bach Vietnamese name meaning "a hundred tribes Vietnam". Han a book (漢書) writes: "Within seven or eight thousand miles from Jiaozhi to Page Mill (located in northern Zhejiang), where Bach Vietnamese, each with their clans." Chinese historians La Huong Lam (羅香林) has said that these peoples have the same ancestors with the 夏朝. However, archaeological sites dating back to the Neolithic (Neolithic) in Guangxi and northern Vietnam, especially the grave jars are found in Vietnam and some in Guangdong West, shows indigenous origin in the south and has a close relationship with the culture of Hoa Binh (9000-5600 BC) and Bac Son (8300-5900 BC) in Vietnam

Very cool. Finding maps that I trusted was one of the most difficult parts of this article. I wrote it a week ago but hunted for relevant maps that wouldn't tick people off .

Thanks for sharing it

if somebody promotes this post $3 steem dollars i will pay them back $6 steem dollars. My steem dollars at the moment are being converted into steem power and i need to wait a week. Poor timing on my part. BUT i will pay it back. I want a positive rating so i will be good.

Coin Marketplace

STEEM 0.28
TRX 0.12
JST 0.032
BTC 61185.73
ETH 3012.54
USDT 1.00
SBD 3.84