【买赞贴/buy vote】steem社区大讨论:什么是滥用?What is Abuse?

in #hauren-news2 months ago (edited)

A series of activities of '100 DAYS OF STEEM' officially launched by steem Inc., one of which was really serious at last:
steem 官方发起的 100 DAYS OF STEEM 一系列活动,总算有一次是干正经事的了:
100 DAYS OF STEEM : Day 33 - Tackling Abuse on Steem - Part I - What is Abuse?

Whether or not steem would been forked out of hive, steem itself has entered the bottleneck period of development, and a basic philosophical issue needs to be discussed:What is steem? Where are steem from? Where are steem going?
无论 steem 是不是要硬分叉出 hive,steem 本身已经进入发展瓶颈期,都需要讨论一个基本的哲学问题:
steem 是什么?哪儿来?去哪儿?

And the core question here is: 'what is abuse? 什么是滥用?而这里最核心的一个问题就是:什么是滥用?What is Abuse?`

In order to facilitate Chinese friends to understand the general situation of the activity and participate in the discussion, I will translate it briefly and discuss it later in the other post.
为方便华人朋友都能了解大概活动的情况和参与讨论,我就简单翻译一下,以后再单独发帖对此讨论。

Before translating the original text, @steemitblog:Any important notice and discussion initiated by the government of steem in the future should be at least in English + Chinese/Japannese/Korean, Otherwise, most of the Chinese, Japanese and Korean users who stay in steem will not be able to participate.
原文翻译前,先建议 @steemitblog官方以后发起的任何重要通知和讨论,至少要发 英语+中日韩, 否则大多数留在steem的中日韩用户无法参与。

In order to let more people see and participate in the discussion, this post starts to buy upvote in 10 minutes, until the end of 3.5 days, and tries to maintain a hot position. This account is responsible for the investment and profit and loss of buy upvote.
为让更多人看到和参与讨论,本帖在10分钟后开始买赞,直到3.5天截止,尽量维持在热门位置。买赞的投入和盈亏,本账号自行承担。

原文翻译

There has been an increasing amount of discussion recently about how ‘abuse’ should be tackled on Steem.
最近有越来越多的讨论应该如何处理“滥用” Steem。

It is an issue that we are of well aware of, and keen to resolve.
这是一个我们非常清楚和迫切需要解决的问题。

But, it an issue of much complexity, significant controversy, and less than universal consensus.
但是,这是一个非常复杂的问题,有重大争议,而且不太普遍的共识。

There are two main parts to the problem, what is abuse and how should it be dealt with.
这个问题主要有两个部分,什么是“滥用” ,应该如何处理。

What is Abuse? 什么是滥用?

More or less since Steem began there has been considerable difference of opinion as to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable behavior on the blockchain.
自Steem成立以来,对于区块链上哪些行为是可接受的,哪些行为是不可接受的,或多或少存在着很大的意见分歧。

The often cited mantra ‘code is law’ suggests that if some action is permitted by the coding of the blockchain then it should be deemed acceptable.
经常被引用的口头禅“代码就是法律”建议,如果区块链编码允许某些行为,则应视为可以接受。

For example, the code of the blockchain does not prevent anyone from posting 10 times a day, and self-voting on those ten posts.
例如,区块链的代码并不能阻止任何人每天发布10次帖子,也不能阻止他们在这10个帖子上进行投票。

But does the ‘community’ consider that acceptable?
但是“社区”认为这可以接受吗?

If posting and self-voting 10 times a day is not considered acceptable, then is doing so five times a day okay? Or three times?
如果一天10次的发帖和自投被认为是不可接受的,那么一天5次可以吗?还是三次?

If the Steem code cannot determine what is or isn’t acceptable, then how can what is or what isn’t considered abuse be decided.
如果Steem代码不能确定什么是可接受的或什么是不可接受的,那么怎样才能确定什么是可接受的或什么是不可接受的滥用。

Beyond code we must turn to community.
除了代码,我们还必须转向社区。

But how can the Community decide on definitions of abuse?
但是,社区如何决定滥用的定义呢?

By discussion to reach consensus? What mechanism should we use for that?
通过讨论达成共识?我们应该使用什么机制来实现这一点?

Or by voting? Should that be one account, one vote? Or should it be stake-weighted? He or she with the biggest Steem Power makes the rules? Will everyone, or indeed anyone, be happy with that?
还是投票?这应该是一个帐户,一票吗?还是应该进行股权加权?拥有最多SP的他或她制定规则?每个人,或者说任何人,都会对此感到高兴吗?

To give the discussion more focus we can bring it to our more particular circumstances of where we are now.
为了使讨论更加集中,我们可以把它带到我们现在所处的更特殊的环境中。

Here are some of the categories of behavior put forward as abuse that needs to be ‘dealt with’...
以下是一些被认为是滥用的行为类别,需要“处理”。。。

  • trolling comments by Hive supporters on Steem posts (but what is trolling and what is expressing a different opinion)

  • hive支持者在Steem 发布的恶意挑衅的评论(但是什么是恶意挑衅的评论,什么是表达不同的观点)

  • posting of (excessive) ‘milking’ posts or comments by Hive supporters on Steem (but where does a ‘proper post’ end and a ‘shit post’ begin, and what is excessive?)

  • hive 支持者在Steem上发布(过多的)“挤奶”帖子或评论(但是“适当的帖子”的下限和“垃圾帖子”的上限在哪里,什么是过多的?)

  • excessive posting and self-voting (but what is excessive - five times a day, ten times a day?)
    *过多的发帖和自我投票(但是什么是过多的——一天五次,一天十次?)

  • comment farming

  • 批量评论

  • using bid-bots to boost posts and potentially earn excessive rewards

  • 使用竞价机器人来推广帖子并可能获得超额奖励

Who should make the determination on which of these are abuse and which are not?
谁来决定哪些是滥用哪些不是?

And if a rule-set for each of these can be decided how do we ensure those rules are applied equally to all users - particularly between those that have remained just on Steem, those that have moved to Hive and those that are happy to use both chains?
如果每个规则集都可以确定,我们如何确保这些规则平等地应用于所有用户——特别是那些只留在Steem上的用户、那些已经移动到Hive的用户和那些乐于使用这两个链的用户之间?

** Who will be the judge and jury? 谁将是法官和陪审团? **
There have been suggestions that it should be the witnesses.
有人建议应该是见证人。

But they were not ‘elected’ for this purpose, although an argument can be put forward that they are the ‘protectors of the blockchain’ and therefore it is within their remit to deal with abuse.
但他们并不是为了这个目的而被“选举”出来的,尽管有人认为他们是“区块链的保护者”,因此他们有权处理滥用行为。

For this approach to have full credence and acceptability it might be useful for all witnesses to make public statements on what they do and don’t consider to be abuse so the community knows the views of all the witnesses they might vote for.
为了使这种做法具有充分的可信度和可接受性,所有见证人都发表公开声明什么被认为是滥用和什么不被认为是滥用,这样社区就知道他们可能投票支持的所有证人的意见。

If the witnesses were to take on this role which witnesses should be included? The top 20, the top 50, the top 100… or all active witnesses? Who would decide on that?
如果证人扮演这个角色,应该包括哪些证人?前20名,前50名,前100名…还是所有活跃证人?谁来决定?

If it is not to be witnesses who take on this role of determining what is abuse would an alternative be some sort of ‘Community Council’? But we are then back to the issues of how would that Council be selected or elected?
如果不是证人承担起决定什么是虐待的角色,另一种选择是某种“社区委员会”?但是,我们现在又回到如何选出或选举该理事会的问题上来?

For both options of witnesses or community council how is the risk of conflict of interest avoided?
无论是证人还是社区委员会,如何避免利益冲突的风险?

Our Proposed Solution 我们提出的解决方案

Unless anyone has any other suggestions, there would appear to be only one other option - Steemit, Inc.
除非有人有任何其他建议,否则似乎只有一个选择——Steemit,Inc。

Traditionally, Steemit, Inc. has stayed out of these sort of debates as it was considered a community issue.
传统上,Steemit,Inc.一直不参与此类辩论,因为它被视为一个社区问题。

Stake would sort it out.
股东会解决的。

That appears unlikely to be the solution that the community now desires.
这似乎不太可能是社区现在渴望的解决方案。

Therefore, in the spirit of the 100 Days of Steem project, we are putting forward a solution.
因此,本着 100 Days of Steem project 的精神,我们提出了一个解决方案。

We, Steemit, Inc., can take on the role of judge of abuse cases - in conjunction with you the community as the jury.
我们,Steemit,Inc.可以担任滥用案件的法官,包括您在内的社区作为陪审团

Through the use of a Community Abuse Reporting account, cases can be presented and discussed through posts and comments to determine if some form of sanction should be applied to the offending account.
通过使用社区滥用报告帐户,可以通过帖子和评论来提交和讨论案件,以确定是否应该对违规帐户实施某种形式的制裁。

This is far from perfect, and we see it only as temporary until some more consensual solution can be designed and implemented
这远非十全十美,我们认为这只是暂时的,直到可以设计和实现一些更具共识的解决方案

So our question to the community is whether Steemit, Inc. acting in this way, in consultation with the community, to determine cases of abuse would be acceptable?
因此,我们向社区提出的问题是,Steemit,Inc.在与社区协商后,以这种方式确定滥用案件是否可以接受?

Please let us know your views in the comments below.
请在下面的评论中告诉我们你的看法。

How Should Abuse be Dealt With? 滥用该如何处理?

This is possibly the simpler of the two parts of the abuse issue.
这可能是滥用问题的两部分中比较简单的一部分。

We see three possible options for this but will leave discussion for Part II of this post to avoid the comments becoming too crowded and confused.
我们看到了三种可能的选择,但将在本文第二部分留下讨论,以避免评论变得过于拥挤和混乱。

First off we are keen to see a substantial debate on ‘What is Abuse’ and our solution proposed above.
首先,我们渴望看到一场关于“什么是滥用”和我们上述建议的解决方案的实质性辩论。

We hope you will join in.
我们希望你能加入。

Thank you,
谢谢您,
The Steemit Team
Steemit团队

本帖steem首发

【买赞贴/buy vote】steem社区大讨论:什么是滥用?What is Abuse?

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反對由Steemit一個公司中心化的判決。

:)不能为了反对而反对,需要提出更好的解决办法。

方法我是有想到。分兩步,第一步是做真人驗證。而且此舉有很大的後續發展空間。做法是限定一定SP以上的金額可以花RC做真人認證,且做認證的權重設定要是趨緩曲線,甚至超過SP門檻的一帳號就只有一票。以不算太高的門檻,不算寡頭壟斷的方式做真人驗證。有驗證的,給予基礎SP。我有寫過這類文章,請參考:https://steempeak.com/tw/@john371911/basic-voting-power-bvp-pending-for-my-friend-s-translation
第二步,大家定期投票選出法官負責裁決。或有興趣的人當陪審團投票,或混和兩者。可以參考混幣器結構,由見證人或其他人擔當選務人員運行混幣器,以增加這些投票的匿名性。另外投票可以決定要由經驗證後一人一票,或由SP加權計算均可考慮。後者因為有認證者能得到基礎投票力,所以對弱勢有較平等化。
不過我不會寫程式,就也只能提出,自己講爽的。

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What is Abuse?

What most Steem blockchain and Hive blockchain users do. Focusing only on their own posts, but they do not care about other people's posts, because most of the Steem blockchain and Hive blockchain users are selfish and greedy. The real human comments are rare both on the Steem blockchain and on the Hive blockchain. There are a lot of content creators, but only a few content consumers. Most of the Steem blockchain and Hive blockchain posts are ignored/overlooked. This leads to many disappointed users, who eventually leave the platform. This is why the user retention is so bad both on the Steem blockchain and on the Hive blockchain. This is in the statistics, so you cannot deny this. Most of the people are ruining both of the blockchains by their bad behavior. Most of the people are not grown up to this technology.

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