"Brod exploited these flaws at a high profile event that he knew would get a response. How we respond is up to us." - - -
Is the right answer for us to bend over and laugh it off? If the new stake kernal (StakeV8) will fix the exploits then why were they executed in production? What did it prove?
This isn't some kind of game. Paid, unpaid, volunteer, and/or charity workers can be let go or fired.
If an investor / researcher performed a stunt like this I'm pretty sure we'd be banned from participating in Gridcoin. Considering a developer, who is also an investor / researcher, did this I would expect the same. This was premeditated by an insider. Unacceptable.
Forgive me if any of this was said in the other replies to this thread. I have minimized that conversation and hopefully will never have to look at it again = ).
With regards to what to do about the actor of these exploits:
I think a conversation needs to be had about the method used to shed light on these exploits. I think a conversation also needs to be had to determine what actions, if any, should be taken against Brod. For now, I will leave my personal opinion out of it, but I ask that people keep as much emotion as possible away from that conversation.
I think the more important conversation to have revolves around what we can build to give us a clear path of action should something like this happen again. We need to build something out of this instead of just looking for fault and retribution. We need governance. It's difficult to govern without knowing what we are governing, so we also need a whitepaper.
Join the conversation on slack where both of these are already under production. The more who contribute ideas the better!
No , the typical " shrug it off is NOT the way to handle this , its not the way to handle any of the shit as we have in the past , forks and black swans etc. We are a damn Financial Institution and do you think this is how things are supposed to be handled? Yes going forward is great but how to avoid apparently out dev team from making horrible choices for US without our say as normally something would have a vote " do we let tomasb hack gridcoin , and if we do do we care if he does it as many times and when ever he wants and lol about it. You also you have to step back and take a look and in total Tomas's actions have been 100% destructive since July 5th when I started dropping his CPID in #gridcoin to show the 12k GRC blackswan to his CPID and what about the 36k ( https://gridcoinstats.eu/cpid/46f64d69eb8c5ee9cd24178b589af83f ) the 12k is gone from his history along with after the 36k a 30k withdrawl that others saw too so can he do more to Gridcoin that we dont know about and did that all get given back? I mean if he was working with the dev's it should have been or was that his treat for hacking all the users PoR twice now and fucking everything up and causing this current magnitude issue along with the false new user influx. Per governing how about finally forming a real Gridcoin foundation with checks and balances and that goes for not just what money goes where from the foundation but what the dev's do and the way and direction Gridcoin heads. Yes we have a vote system , but anyone can make a vote they don't have to be honored. I tell you what , lets take the first step and stop this blackhat shit right now , people already got very little compensation via Gridcoin for their Boinc contributions and now its way way less thanks to this. So cheers to TomasCoin! - Yes go to slack the latest myspace and when the next facebook comes out move there.. IRC has been around since 1988 , 1991 if you want to go with more than just a few users and its not going anywhere its long known freenode is the chat support medium for opensource projects just the people that run #gridcoin dont know how to use it properly. Slack is crap.
^ This.
This and the fact that I seem to be banned from the subreddit (my posts are not visible to anyone?), for asking about why someone who is TRYING to contribute to the community gets so many negative comments and downvotes.
These are things that make me lose faith.
Edit: Reddit issue seems to be something technical...
Not involved in the thread, but the whole company upvotes the post at the same time? I guess they forgot it's all recorded on the blockchain.
Not to mention that these clone posts are always the same, spreading some Reddit nonsense, praising Erkan, with a touch of FUD in the end. Like I said, it's ridiculous.
No idea, I mostly use reddit to lurk around the subreddits Gridcoin and Pokémon Go (sshhh ;-)).
I haven't posted anything abusive to get a shadowban, few weeks ago I posted a support post that is still visible, my next post was me questioning why there's so much hatred towards Erkan.
I just had a look into this, your post is marked as 'removed' yet there's nothing in the moderator log regarding the removal of your post - I believe this was the automoderator glitching somehow.
Why does your account not exist? https://www.reddit.com/user/texke It's highly likely that because your account doesn't appear to exist (reddit glitch?) that the automod is autoremoving your content. Consider contacting the reddit admins or make a new reddit account.
That's a freakishly annoying glitch.
When I'm logged in, I can see my own account, but not when I'm logged out.
I'll check it out, thanks for looking into it.
I'm taking back my suspicion about the reddit ban, my apologies for that, but I'd still love to see some more love towards eachother and giving constructive criticism (and ofcourse follow it).
We all know wo and what I'm talking about in the meanwhile I think :-)
Take a look from the bright side - you should be thankful for that deletion, whether it's a glitch or a genuine ban, because it made you ditch Reddit sooner, after all.
Is it so much to ask to keep the professionalism higher than this, where even a simple member gets accused of something while he only wants to point out he's sick of the fights in the community and just wants to see everyone get along instead of fighting...
When your first post/comment on Steemit EVER is complaining about getting flagged, I guess you don't expect to start some high-quality discussion, do you? Low quality in->low quality out.
My complaint wasn't about getting downvoted. It's about posts that get downvoted because it doesn't comply the taste of bigger names in the community (not mine, if that still isn't clear, and no, this ain't a clone account).
I'm a big lurker, I read almost everything that appears on reddit about gridcoin (at least I try to). I oonly use steem for the gridcoin topics.
My complaint is the continious fights between members of the community.
If people who get to know gridcoin by browsing reddit, and the first things they see is "oh no, another bullshit post by whoever", posted by someone else who also is very active in the community, it may seem contributing isn't very much appreciated, even if the content isn't very informative, but at least they tried.
(I tried posting the same thing in a recent reddit topic, but the thing is nobody can't see it, unless I completely suck in using reddit, but since my other posts are visible to the public...)
I'm just stating an opinion aswell, since I'm a developer myself (only for 2500 people, but still), and communication is key.
We also test in production (because of the same reason of this one), but we do it without "interference", and when there would be, or was, we don't plan it during peak moments.
If there's an exploit to test, but it can only be tested in production, then block 990.000 was a valid point to do it aswell.
Anyway, this ain't the platform, nor the topic to start another bitchfight about this. The accusations towards me and Erkan without any research are, for me, another proof. For what, I'll leave that to you.
Ah, so you want to rally the community together by writing stuff like "now it's my turn to get downvoted" in your very first Steemit post? That won't work, I am afraid (even if you didn't get downvoted).
However, here is the latest, decent-quality introductory post that is indeed rallying communities together (both Steemit and Gridcoin), you might want to take a look at it:
You have the subtlety of an elephant in the proverbial glass shop.
Things don't have to be this way, man. Wouldn't you rather upvote some quality stuff and earn SBD? Wouldn't you rather see me upvoting your good stuff, instead of wasting my VP on downvoting this clone-nonsense over and over?
Depends! Did it hurt anybody? Did it endanger the network? Did it spawn quarrel within the circle of developers? If the answer to this is yes, then I would condemn such action. If not, then where is the problem?
He needed to try the exploit (as he says the testnet is not suitable), to make sure it works and needs to be fixed (even already providing a solution), so the timepoint is irrelevant. As long as the network does not suffer, is not this what an developer does?
To be clear: I also prefer a clearly communicated collaboration, no doubt about that. There would have been more elegant ways. What I am intrested in is the motivation and how carefully he analyzed the situation and the impact of it. Is there anything known from the other devs? How do they think about it?
Really, @kuradikurat, flagging for a controversial opinion? Why not a comment? Flagging is not downvoting(!), and I do not see my post being spam or in any way against steemit - guidelines.
I have to apologize. The FAQs state flagging as a method to downvote, I was wrong. I relied on posts about flagging (on steemit), that had the consensus that only flagging spam and abusive content is part of the etiquette, but the FAQs say something different. The posts were obviously on how to improve flagging, not the current system. Again, my apologies!
Even if we disregard the fact that banning someone from crypto is an absurdity (one can rejoin the next minute with a different nickname/CPID/wallet/everything), shouldn't we also investigate the dev who implemented the staking boost feature with so many exploits? Pretty soon, all we would have left are noobz asking for bans.
"Brod exploited these flaws at a high profile event that he knew would get a response. How we respond is up to us." - - -
Is the right answer for us to bend over and laugh it off? If the new stake kernal (StakeV8) will fix the exploits then why were they executed in production? What did it prove?
This isn't some kind of game. Paid, unpaid, volunteer, and/or charity workers can be let go or fired.
If an investor / researcher performed a stunt like this I'm pretty sure we'd be banned from participating in Gridcoin. Considering a developer, who is also an investor / researcher, did this I would expect the same. This was premeditated by an insider. Unacceptable.
Forgive me if any of this was said in the other replies to this thread. I have minimized that conversation and hopefully will never have to look at it again = ).
With regards to what to do about the actor of these exploits:
I think a conversation needs to be had about the method used to shed light on these exploits. I think a conversation also needs to be had to determine what actions, if any, should be taken against Brod. For now, I will leave my personal opinion out of it, but I ask that people keep as much emotion as possible away from that conversation.
I think the more important conversation to have revolves around what we can build to give us a clear path of action should something like this happen again. We need to build something out of this instead of just looking for fault and retribution. We need governance. It's difficult to govern without knowing what we are governing, so we also need a whitepaper.
Join the conversation on slack where both of these are already under production. The more who contribute ideas the better!
No , the typical " shrug it off is NOT the way to handle this , its not the way to handle any of the shit as we have in the past , forks and black swans etc. We are a damn Financial Institution and do you think this is how things are supposed to be handled? Yes going forward is great but how to avoid apparently out dev team from making horrible choices for US without our say as normally something would have a vote " do we let tomasb hack gridcoin , and if we do do we care if he does it as many times and when ever he wants and lol about it. You also you have to step back and take a look and in total Tomas's actions have been 100% destructive since July 5th when I started dropping his CPID in #gridcoin to show the 12k GRC blackswan to his CPID and what about the 36k ( https://gridcoinstats.eu/cpid/46f64d69eb8c5ee9cd24178b589af83f ) the 12k is gone from his history along with after the 36k a 30k withdrawl that others saw too so can he do more to Gridcoin that we dont know about and did that all get given back? I mean if he was working with the dev's it should have been or was that his treat for hacking all the users PoR twice now and fucking everything up and causing this current magnitude issue along with the false new user influx. Per governing how about finally forming a real Gridcoin foundation with checks and balances and that goes for not just what money goes where from the foundation but what the dev's do and the way and direction Gridcoin heads. Yes we have a vote system , but anyone can make a vote they don't have to be honored. I tell you what , lets take the first step and stop this blackhat shit right now , people already got very little compensation via Gridcoin for their Boinc contributions and now its way way less thanks to this. So cheers to TomasCoin! - Yes go to slack the latest myspace and when the next facebook comes out move there.. IRC has been around since 1988 , 1991 if you want to go with more than just a few users and its not going anywhere its long known freenode is the chat support medium for opensource projects just the people that run #gridcoin dont know how to use it properly. Slack is crap.
^ This.
This and the fact that
I seem to be banned from the subreddit (my posts are not visible to anyone?), for asking about whysomeone who is TRYING to contribute to the community gets so many negative comments and downvotes.These are things that make me lose faith.
Edit: Reddit issue seems to be something technical...
Erkan, stop producing these stupid clones. It's pathetic.
https://steemd.com/@texke
Baseless accusations against people not even involved in the thread do not further the discussion.
Not involved in the thread, but the whole company upvotes the post at the same time? I guess they forgot it's all recorded on the blockchain.
Not to mention that these clone posts are always the same, spreading some Reddit nonsense, praising Erkan, with a touch of FUD in the end. Like I said, it's ridiculous.
Nonsense?
Please explain:
Top: When I'm logged in, bottom: when I'm not logged in.
Is it only in /r/gridcoin or all of reddit? You might be shadowbanned.
No idea, I mostly use reddit to lurk around the subreddits Gridcoin and Pokémon Go (sshhh ;-)).
I haven't posted anything abusive to get a shadowban, few weeks ago I posted a support post that is still visible, my next post was me questioning why there's so much hatred towards Erkan.
You're a superstar!
Het ziet er naar uit dat de subreddit moderator een regel heeft opgezet die berichte van nieuwe mensen op de sub verstopt. Ik heb het net getest.
Or this is very recent, since my previous posts are visible to the public (latest 18 days ago in https://www.reddit.com/r/gridcoin/comments/6rhjtn/projectrain_pullrequest_submitted_to_the_boinc/dl596p5/ ), or post are getting approved manually, since I can see posts of 1 day old accounts with less karma.
Oh well. Thanks for the heads up.
I just had a look into this, your post is marked as 'removed' yet there's nothing in the moderator log regarding the removal of your post - I believe this was the automoderator glitching somehow.
Why does your account not exist? https://www.reddit.com/user/texke It's highly likely that because your account doesn't appear to exist (reddit glitch?) that the automod is autoremoving your content. Consider contacting the reddit admins or make a new reddit account.
That's a freakishly annoying glitch.
When I'm logged in, I can see my own account, but not when I'm logged out.
I'll check it out, thanks for looking into it.
I'm taking back my suspicion about the reddit ban, my apologies for that, but I'd still love to see some more love towards eachother and giving constructive criticism (and ofcourse follow it).
We all know wo and what I'm talking about in the meanwhile I think :-)
Take a look from the bright side - you should be thankful for that deletion, whether it's a glitch or a genuine ban, because it made you ditch Reddit sooner, after all.
It didn't made me ditch Reddit, no idea why I should...
THIS is what I'm talking about, djezes christ.
I'm a person on my own thank you very much, I made this account just to reply.
Wanne see my ID, or CPID? Here it is: https://www.gridcoinstats.eu/cpid/77e8b5f5fe415a06ddc0f23d0b612715
Boincstats? https://boincstats.com/en/stats/-1/user/detail/144356/overview (yes, I left the team yesterday)
Google my nick and you'll find out my realname you can facebook aswell if you want (warning: contents may be Dutch (the language).
Is it so much to ask to keep the professionalism higher than this, where even a simple member gets accused of something while he only wants to point out he's sick of the fights in the community and just wants to see everyone get along instead of fighting...
Antwerp? Cool! My parents go there all the time.
My condolences to them :P
When your first post/comment on Steemit EVER is complaining about getting flagged, I guess you don't expect to start some high-quality discussion, do you? Low quality in->low quality out.
My complaint wasn't about getting downvoted. It's about posts that get downvoted because it doesn't comply the taste of bigger names in the community (not mine, if that still isn't clear, and no, this ain't a clone account).
I'm a big lurker, I read almost everything that appears on reddit about gridcoin (at least I try to). I oonly use steem for the gridcoin topics.
My complaint is the continious fights between members of the community.
If people who get to know gridcoin by browsing reddit, and the first things they see is "oh no, another bullshit post by whoever", posted by someone else who also is very active in the community, it may seem contributing isn't very much appreciated, even if the content isn't very informative, but at least they tried.
(I tried posting the same thing in a recent reddit topic, but the thing is nobody can't see it, unless I completely suck in using reddit, but since my other posts are visible to the public...)
I'm just stating an opinion aswell, since I'm a developer myself (only for 2500 people, but still), and communication is key.
We also test in production (because of the same reason of this one), but we do it without "interference", and when there would be, or was, we don't plan it during peak moments.
If there's an exploit to test, but it can only be tested in production, then block 990.000 was a valid point to do it aswell.
Anyway, this ain't the platform, nor the topic to start another bitchfight about this. The accusations towards me and Erkan without any research are, for me, another proof. For what, I'll leave that to you.
Ah, so you want to rally the community together by writing stuff like "now it's my turn to get downvoted" in your very first Steemit post? That won't work, I am afraid (even if you didn't get downvoted).
However, here is the latest, decent-quality introductory post that is indeed rallying communities together (both Steemit and Gridcoin), you might want to take a look at it:
https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@zigzagoonballoon/an-introduction-to-zigzagoon-balloon
this is not my account
and if you want to use such dirty tactics, I will claim from now on:
You have the subtlety of an elephant in the proverbial glass shop.
Things don't have to be this way, man. Wouldn't you rather upvote some quality stuff and earn SBD? Wouldn't you rather see me upvoting your good stuff, instead of wasting my VP on downvoting this clone-nonsense over and over?
Depends! Did it hurt anybody? Did it endanger the network? Did it spawn quarrel within the circle of developers? If the answer to this is yes, then I would condemn such action. If not, then where is the problem?
He needed to try the exploit (as he says the testnet is not suitable), to make sure it works and needs to be fixed (even already providing a solution), so the timepoint is irrelevant. As long as the network does not suffer, is not this what an developer does?
Not telling his peers, acting alone, and don't forget
" [irc] TomasBrod APP [10:44 AM]
The whole 1M exploit was set up to run auto. I was not even home. "
We cannot function as a team with this behavior.
To be clear: I also prefer a clearly communicated collaboration, no doubt about that. There would have been more elegant ways. What I am intrested in is the motivation and how carefully he analyzed the situation and the impact of it. Is there anything known from the other devs? How do they think about it?
Really, @kuradikurat, flagging for a controversial opinion? Why not a comment? Flagging is not downvoting(!), and I do not see my post being spam or in any way against steemit - guidelines.
flagging is downvoting: https://steemit.com/faq.html#What_is_the_difference_between_a_downvote_and_a_flag
@kuradikurat, @theissen,
I have to apologize. The FAQs state flagging as a method to downvote, I was wrong. I relied on posts about flagging (on steemit), that had the consensus that only flagging spam and abusive content is part of the etiquette, but the FAQs say something different. The posts were obviously on how to improve flagging, not the current system. Again, my apologies!
Sorry, but flagging is the only option here to downvote content...
Thomas write the v8 kernel , so do you trust it? I don't.
Even if we disregard the fact that banning someone from crypto is an absurdity (one can rejoin the next minute with a different nickname/CPID/wallet/everything), shouldn't we also investigate the dev who implemented the staking boost feature with so many exploits? Pretty soon, all we would have left are noobz asking for bans.