I have to ask, which involuntary stuff do you want forcibly imposed upon ME?
I want the government to forcibly impose non-violence on you. To prevent you from gathering a bunch of thugs, forming a militia and forcing me into a dictatorship.
Make no mistake, all your cries about "freedom" are really an attempt to control the world and force everyone else to live the way you believe is best.
I can't tell if that was serious, or if you're a voluntaryist making fun of how statists argue. Because they sound exactly the same. Your last sentence is especially ridiculous, unless you're just an anarchist trolling the comments section.
Because dismantling the government isn't forcing your view on everyone else somehow? The millions of people who see the good in government now have to start finding their own personal defense contractors, no matter how poor they are, because @larkenrose convinced enough people that voluntaryism works!
And hey, I get it. you would never form a militia and take over. But someone would. That's the point, anarchists utterly ignore history and human nature. Militias will form, and someone will take over. There is no such thing as anarchy except in the imagination.
You can join whatever government you'd like. Live by their dictates. Be ruled by them. I'm not stopping you. Just don't force me to join it.
I didn't. No one did. You choose to stay with your current government.
Yes, someone would form a militia and take over. YOU. YOU would. It's what you are advocating, right here, right now. But you're too indoctrinated to even notice.
But you're utterly avoiding the point in favor of accusing me of being a statist. Is your only argument ad hominem?
OK, let's say it was me. Government disappears tomorrow, and on Monday I start gathering troops and training them so I can carve out a territory.
What stops me?
there is no point in arguing with telos. i tried to say that children are the product of their parents labor, until they can cogently advocate for themselves, and as parents they have the right to refuse to inject vaccines , of unpredictable origin , into their children, and telos accused me of wanting to kill children. so, while i admire your seemingly unquenchable desire to educate, even the most unwilling, i have debated with this guy at length and finally decided that some need to unlearn their indoctrination their own way. my efforts at least i'll no longer waste on the willing slaves. i hope to encourage you to move on. however you seem to be better at this than i . should you choose to continue, i applaud you, have at it.
"Because stopping a rapist isn't forcing your view on someone else?" Good grief. "If you're not getting robbed, people might have to pay for what they want! You evil oppressor!"
Literally nothing to do with what I've said. You'd think such a famous champion of anarchy could do better.
"someone would?". Are you the second coming of the Prophet or something? You claim you can predict something that you can't even point to an example of ever happening before, since that would be pretty important to backing up your argument. "Oh, back in the days of some king or something, some guy came along, set up a voluntary system of distributed governance, and immediately people started eating babies and raping each other".
Have a look into how the Icelanders ran precisely this kind of voluntary, distributed governance system in the middle ages, until the Catholic Church came along and used its power to violently enforce the tithe, and undid all the good of their system, which ran for 300 years with very little violence or bloodshed.
Also, have a look at the Bible. 1 Samuel 8 is a very good example to give you a hint about the fact that prior to the first king of the Jews, David, in fact, jewish society was precisely a voluntary, decentralised system of meritocratic, competitive governance. The archaeological evidence of the ancient city of Jericho, shows that this system must have existed for some 9000 years, no kings, no government, just a loose network of religious scholars who were vested with the privilege of making judgements in cases of law and prescribing remedies... These competing lawgivers kept warlords from rising up within their ranks, while they were just little upstart common criminals. It was probably this also why it was a very sad day for judaism when finally Jericho fell.
You conveniently cherry picked that article for the things that supported your argument, and left out the entire first half of the article, which described how it worked for that 290 years. For example:
and still more, that I think is very important, that you have misrepresented through omission:
And this article did not mention the part played by the catholic church as they moved in and manipulated things with their money from Rome. This was how the monopoly developed.
Sure, they didn't have a defence against this outside party funding a breakup of their legal system, but 290 years of greatly reduced warfare and violent crime still needs to be accounted for.
As stated above, can't tell if serious or being ironic. If its the latter, well played!...If its the former, well frankly, thats even funnier!
wow, he was serious ... The "Sheep-O-Thon" continues ... And really, nothing funny about it (imho) ..
Please get me out of this "Dysfunction Junction" called the USSA ..
Seems to me, the only people talking like this are the ones that (As of YET)have not been kidnapped and thrown in a cage. Absolutely no sympathy, and certainly no empathy, all that will change because YOUR turn (to be caged) IS coming ! (Sheeple)
As the man said "You aint seen bad yet, BUT IT'S COMING"
I have been arrested. Twice actually.
Again, none of you are telling me why militias won't spring up and take over your area forming dictatorships.
But no, please do go on with your ad hominems rather than actually thinking.
A "militia" already has sprung up and taken over my area. They watch me all the time, monitoring my internet use, my phone conversations, and who I associate with. If I do something they don't like, they'll come in the middle of the night, dressed in black, with machine guns, to kidnap me and take me away somewhere.
It calls itself the government of the United States of America.
If you try to control and rule over millions of people by brute force alone, you get shot. That's why modern sociopaths know that first you have to dupe your subjects into thinking you are "protecting" them, and thinking your domination of them is legitimate and "legal." If you want an example of what it looks like when someone falls for that, look in the mirror.
By the way, congrats on being able to spell "ad hominem." However, now you need to learn what it means. It doesn't just mean any response you don't like. (P.S. The term "statist" refers to anyone who advocates the existence of a state.)
@larkenrose: Yeah, those dictators... Always getting shot by their own people. Oh... Wait.
Calling me a sheep certainly qualifies as ad hominem, and as for statist:
Statism: a political system in which the state has substantial centralized control over social and economic affairs.
I have advocated for nothing more than the realization that without government controlled national defense you'd be fighting off militias left and right. So calling me a statist is innaccurate, and given your disdain for statists, absolutely an ad hominem. You only finally triedto address my point after I called you out on that.
Nice try though.
Hi @telos, here's an extract from a speech which might help answer your question:
Have a good one
@churdtzu: I responded in a new post thanks to terrible comment depth limits: https://steemit.com/anarchy/@telos/response-wouldn-t-warlords-take-over
From what I can tell telos is one of a handful of leftist trolls who like to come onto libertarian articles and re-state every statist fallacy we've ever crushed a million times before...boring fellow...
So it is violent to stop violence? Please do go on, I am curious to see the mental gymnastics you need to justify this.
telos, why do you want me dead if I disagree with you. you are evil and immoral for wanting the state to point a gun at me to steal my property.
I don't want you dead. Why can't anarchists ever address what was actually said instead of making up hyperbolic bullshit?