Adam VS The Tax Man (call with Yavapai County Treasurer)

in #freedom3 years ago (edited)

Adam calls Ross Jacobs, Treasurer of Yavapai county, to find out if he believes that taxation is indeed theft.

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This was great, I have to agree that taxation is indeed theft. I have huge respect for everything you are doing @adamkokesh I will do whatever I can to help you spread the word and educate people about this. I watched your #taxationistheft tour. You did a great job brother. I am fully on board with decentralizing everything in our country. Its really interesting to hear your view on our country having a standing army since you were in the military. I want to hear more about your views on organized vs unorganized militia, what is your vision for the future here? Would states have "unorganized militias"? How would these state militias look and operate? It got me thinking about what to do about police in this country as well. As I told you earlier my father was a police detective for many years. He was a homicide detective and also worked narcotics for a bit (his views on the drug war have changed since retiring). I think some form of police would still be necessary, without the government in between. I believe most people have good in their heart and just want to live life but unfortunately there will always be some evil souls out there who want to harm / take from others. There would need to be some kind of police force to deal with these matters. I am against things like speeding tickets and many other unnecessary laws the police enforce, but If we got rid of the police how would crimes like murder be dealt with and investigated? Also what about driving drunk and these sorts of things? I am interested in hearing you expand upon all this and get your ideas here. I'd appreciate it if you talked about how you see future police forces and how they would look in our country in a video one day (if you think there should be police of some kind). What sort of laws will they enforce? How would they operate and get paid? #respect

Great questions! I'm going to cut and paste this into my notes and answer all of them in my next podcast.

Appreciate that @adamkokesh looking forward to it. Thank you very much.

Adam. Please add a Court system to his police force. How the heck would a minarchist "nation" keep their police in check without it? What I am saying is, minarchists MUST become stuck with both. Can't be one without the other.... thusly inheriting the intrinsic synergy of this potentially lethal combo when they work in tandem.

Sorry... I didn't want this message getting lost in the crowd... I have a Theory that Ends Income Taxes as we know it... Or at least Resets the Income Tax, back where it started...

COIN MAN by @pocketechange ...A penny may cost a dollar...

@thejohalfiles Hey there! Sorry for the delayed response but I answered your question in my exclusive podcast for 985 Club members. If you would like to hear my response, please let me have your email and I will send you access to the Youtube video! Thank you so much for the great question!

Thank you brother, no worries. My email is - [email protected] - thank you appreciate you responding to my question.

Actually here it is:

He's really doing a great job! And awesome to see a fantastic curator supporting him so deeply :D

@thejohalfiles - There are two ways in which an anarchocapitalist justice system could deal with police and judicial error. Either the police force of a free society could have its clients contractually agree to be subject to arrest when the police (or a magistrate) judged the evidence to be sufficient (thus freeing them from the obligation of making restitution if they arrested a person who later turned out to be innocent); or they would agree to make restitution if they made a mistake.

Of the two possibilities, I prefer the latter. If the police or courts make a mistake, they should pay for it. In a free market of justice, police making many errors would thus quickly be eliminated by bankruptcy.

counterfeiters NEVER go bankrupt.....

Very clever wit @fundposhprincess! :)

I posted that, not to be witty. But for us to recognize what we are up against in an anarcho structure. How do we stop counterfeiters from running things and corrupting whatever they want?

@fundposhprincess - Game theory tells us that bad actors will appear under any social structure - all we can ever do is minimize the risk as per complexity theory. Systemic risk is ever present in our universe. There is no utopia to save us unfortunately.

oh, my... I've died and gone to Nerdvana. LOL Let's not complicate the simple need for a Justice system in our jurisdiction. ...which can somehow prevent counterfeiting.

I am so amazed, this is so inspired @adamkokesh. and I am also very proud of @thejohalfiles, it turns out he is not as I thought. To be honest, the first time I saw the @thejohalfiles account I thought he was a snob, did not join a friend, it was because his account was not mixed with a single letter of the alphabet letter. and it turns out this is wrong, he's a good person, he's always supportive. including me he has ever supported. and one word for you @thejohalfiles, I am amazed and I like your good attitude towards each other.

Sir @thejohalfiles,
i amazed with you

if you can not help me, no problem, maybe there will be others who are good like you, will help me,thank you so much😐

It was really good - thanks for asking some great questions @thejohalfiles !!

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No, taxation is necessary to secure public services. Taxation, in its proper form, is not legalized theft. Without taxation it would be impossible to receive many of the services that people cherish and need. For instance, schools, emergency services and sanitation services are all paid for with tax dollars. As such taxation is not a form of legalized theft.

Spot on. The same internet trolls who say there should be no taxation on their precious crypto space are the same ones who ride around on state maintained roads, rely on police, fire department, and ambulances to keep them safe, seek government backed student loans, and are probably on welfare suckling at the government teet.

I'm not saying there isn't room for tax reform, but if these little snowflakes think roads, utilities, and services just magically appear, they're dumber than I feared.

I think the snowflake is the one who believes that taxation isn't's the same as me walking into your house, unannounced and uninvited...stealing ALL of your possessions in the name of paying for services you aren't entitled to...the police damn sure aren't here to protect your interests...they're here to protect the interests of those imposing the taxes...the strong arm of the ruling elite...but then you'd know that if you weren't indoctrinated to believe in the system...more than likely on the back of one of those government backed student loans you're babbling about...take a walk through history...humans didn't arrive where we are today because we needed a government entity to steal our money and spend it for us...we got where we are by being self-reliant and independent...hell, income taxes are less than 110 years did we survive before then...?

Statistically you are more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist. Just sayin

Theft is not defined by what is done with the stolen resources. You would be able to receive all those services at cheaper cost and better quality in a free market.
Look at the USPS, it is illegal for any company(Fedex, UPS, DHL, Etc.) to compete with them, they have a monopoly and that's why their service sucks.

And yet you silly schmucks voted for Bernie Sanders, an avowed socialist who promised more goodies provided by the government and paid for by someone else.

"Without taxation it would be impossible to receive many of the services that people cherish and need"

What, impossible? Are you saying people wouldn't voluntarily pay for services they want and need? Is the only way to provide services such as schools, emergency or sanitation via compulsion? There are private schools, private emergency services and private santitation service providers that must face the market and earn customers. Therefore they offer better services than a service provider that does not have to earn customers.

The most basic definition of theft is to take something that is not yours without consent. Taxation is compulsary if it was by consent it would be called charity. So indeed taxation is theft...

I'm guessing you've never actually held a job before. It's possible you still live in your parent's basement. There is an actual real world out there and it costs money to maintain.

Ever gone to a hospital before. All of our tax dollars support it. You may not use it everyday and you may feel that since you don't use it you shouldn't be forced to pay for it, but you'll be damn glad it's there when you do truly need it.

You know nothing.

You are very wrong. Every service that is provided with taxes would function much more efficiently for profit in the market.

I'm guessing you never think things through before spouting off and calling other people parental basement dwellers...otherwise you'd realize that humanity made it through millions of years without money in...

an actual real world

Ever open a history book before? Native Americans, and indigenous tribal people from around the world, visited tepees of their "Shaman," "Medicine Man," when they got sick...none of your tax dollars paid for a damn thing, and humanity excelled...hell, most people didn't even have health insurance available to them...

You know less than nothing...perhaps you should open a book before opening your mouth in the future...

Degrading other people is not the best way to make a point., lemme get this're okay with the degrading remarks in the original comment, but not with me returning the favor...

I am okay with people degrading each other. Free speech have at it. I am just saying it does not do a good job at getting your point across. And sorry, I did not see the comment that enticed yours. I am sure it was a justified response. But still my point stands. Also I picked your comment but I am referring to others on this string as well.

All those things you mentioned are things that shouldn't have to face the market, in all its' deviousness and cutthroat tactics. I sure as hell don't want Company A to force me to pay fucking $3000 for a toilet just because it formed a monopoly and has no need to bring down prices.

That last paragraph is pure gibberish lol

then you should make toilets

Extremely overpriced toilets would def be a great indicator for market competition.

Sirlordboss--How are you into crypto? If you understood crypto at all you would see that one of it's primary functions is to avoid government monetary policy and taxes. You are making yourself look very foolish.

He doesn't...he's an uneducated ass bag full of shitty comments and ignorance

Monopolies can't exist without government.

All services should have to earn their customers this is one of the main attributes that creates quality of service and lower prices.

So you are worried about monopolies? The largest monopoly is the institution that is using tax theft as a means to exist. The question is whether taxation is theft, and it certainly is given the basic definiton of taking goods or services that are not yours without consent. Your opinion on which services should be provided via tax theft is irrelevant.

I'm digging all your responses!

I urge everyone to flag this troll and show him the door...he's an uneducated asshat with nothing better to do than run around flagging people like he's somebody important...instead of the douchebag he is

Wonders how did America survive all those years from 1776-1913 without collecting income taxes? How did schools, sanitation and emergency services function before taxes? hmmmmmm seems like you just want a government to dictate your life. If so Venezuela looks lovely right now...

Schools and sanitation services can be provided through the private sector.

Dude you have no clue. Even the internet would have been better without the government. The government has the monopoly on theft.

My friend, it's you who have no clue. Do you think roads, utilities, and services just magically appear? Where do you think they come from?

I appreciate the dialog my friend. Let me tell you about things that just appear out of nowhere. The automobiles came out without the taxation but from the free market. You really think the free market would not have invented the simple flat road? The free market came up with electricity and the phone. You don't think we could have made the utility poles? And let's see services, they say that private security does a much better job than those thugs that pull you off the road and extort you for money and remminding you whose in charge. You don't give the free market enough credit. That's because you and I, my friend have been indoctrinated by a gov't funded school system, that the private establishments have always done a better job at. History proves what a truly free people have the capablility of achieving and it's always better than what the gov't does.

No but government services Magically cost triple what they do in the private sector.

Here in the United State the way the Constitution was original written only corporations paid taxes. then slowly corruption took over and taxes was levied against the people then during a Christmas holiday the Federal Reserve Act was enacted, officially enslaving the nation. Give people enough "freedoms" so they have some choices and think they are free. In reality they are slaves. Even those who are awake enough to keep a little more of their freedoms knows that the way things are currently have enslaved the nation.

That's not true. The first tax was levied on whisky, by the founders, at the urging of Alexander Hamilton, to help pay the war debt. Nationalizing the war debt was the VERY beginning of the end for the American ideal. Also, Alexander Hamilton was responsible for provisions in the Constitution that allowed for the levying of taxes... So much for the revolution.

You are correct I responded to this sleep deprived...

I agree with what you're saying though. The Fed is not only nefarious, it is unconstitutional.

That doomed our generations you firmly believe that taxation is a "necessary evil" then...and that it is not a form of legalized theft...please, oh wise one, explain to me how humanity existed prior to 1913 when the 16th Amendment (you know, the one that legalized income tax) was ratified...taxation is nothing more than theft...without it, the ruling elite wouldn't maintain a stranglehold on power, greed, and corruption...these "services" you mention, are not promised to anyone...schools teach you to think that income tax is not legalized theft...emergency services lose as many as they save, if not more (if we include medical visits to emergency rooms and emergency surgeries, there's no doubt they lose more than they save)...sanitation services are another form of legalized theft, you are forced to pay somebody to remove your waste...when for centuries we simply burned it, buried it in compost piles, or repurposed it...what was that you were saying...?

What an edgelord lol, stfu dude. Lost you about halfway and have no intention of looking for any sign of intelligence anymore lol

Good...because you're the biggest douchebag on the blockchain...IDGAF about you or your ignorant opnion...any day you want to meet in person and shut me the fuck up,,,I'm game...bring it on little bitchboy!

Sounds like the statist propaganda they teach in the government sponsored public school systems. Of course they're going to only churn out more public debtor slaves, standing in bond & surety for their artificial entity

Sad to see. The public schools teach obedience not independence..

I disagree. I am fully Anarcho Capitalist at heart atleast.

@adamkokesh, this was a remarkable conversation! If I had to distill his response, I would do so with these words: “I’m not going to get into the morality of it, but the fact is, it's the reality.”

The nerve he had, it’s the classic might makes right argument. At that moment I basically imagined him holding a gun to your head, saying: Pay me, so you can keep your land, or else Neegan will make an example of you.

I guess now all you have left to do is place a 10 million dollar lien on your land, in order to protect it against government sponsored chicanery.

Theoretically speaking, your lien if it is first, would have to be satisfied before any other liens that followed.

Meaning, if they wanted to steal your land, they'd have to pay you 10 million in order to do so. By the way, none of that was legal advice, and I am not a lawyer!

This guy though, he's a Retirement Risk Manager.

Thanks for the video. Not sure what he means by making sure your name is not on the LLC. I have an LLC and could use it I guess. But I guess his pont is that the first lien needs to be settled first before their lien.

My understanding of "income tax," as explained by countless a tax levied against the "fruits of your labor," but not the labor itself...if you manufacture something, or you produce something, from raw materials...then you are supposed to pay an "income tax" on the profits made from the sale of those products...if you are but a laborer in the pits, pushing buttons and punching a time clock, then you are under no obligation to pay "income tax" on your paycheck...but that's what they say about what's on the books...

That being said...taxation has always been about theft...if we were not threatened with imprisonment for not paying taxes, we wouldn't pay them...any financial remittance made to a central government under that type of duress, can be categorized as nothing but theft...and theft, under any terms, is illegal.

Agreed. If taxation is such a great thing that we all need, then why do they have to force it onto us?

I understand this is a rhetorical question...however, the only reason for forced remittance of income tax is to maintain the status quo...were it not for taxes, those in power would be powerless to impose their will on the average citizen...they could not afford to house and maintain standing armed forces...and without that they couldn't enforce a traffic violation, let alone impose taxes...

I don't see any question mark. What is the question?

You placed a question mark at the end of your comment...

Agreed. If taxation is such a great thing that we all need, then why do they have to force it onto us?

...which led me to believe it was a rhetorical question

Duh, my bad. I did not read you comment correctly initially. Thanks for the comment.

Statism: ideas so good, they have to be mandatory.

Well done Adam, keep up the good work buddy. All the best from Scotland.

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Indeed! Humans are not owned by the government to require pay tax 😔😔😔😔. I agree with sir Adam, that taxation is a legal theft. Our property is ours, what is the connection of the government with the property that we own. Tax is a Legal Theft Indeeddd !!!!!
Hahaha I agree with his line that "we are force to pay stuff for the sake of the government" Taxation should be reform, it is so just unjust.
Thank you for sharing this @adamkokesh , it is a great conversation.

Wow that guy was very cooperative in having an actual conversation! How rare. Most officials had found a reason to hang on you 2 minutes in. I think you found the component!

America is a good place, america is a freedom based country, in what sense are u talking about

It was founded on that, in reality we are given a few choices but are not free, the whole nation was enslaved when the federal reserve act was signed 100 years ago and moved the countries money into private bankers hands. Call it the Federal Reserve Act and the Federal Reserve, so people think it is the government, but in reality it is private bankers, and the corruption it has caused is causing so much damage around the world.

We may be "freedom based" but we are in no way free like we used to be.

Ohh, that strange but hope situation Changes and you have a goof life friend

Hope? What are you talikng about? If you think I'm hoping. You're wrong. I'm doing something about it. I am freer than I was a couple of year ago. And yes, life is better, thank you.

yes i agree corruption is eating the world

Not corruption but the gov't that enables corruption that the people enable by voting for and paying taxes.

Very interesting!

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very good quality of knowledge

taxation is not theft when it is used for the betterment of a nation. taxation is theft when people in government pockets it and enrich themselves for their betterment.

I am not a nation. I am an individual. And will decide for myself what will make me better off, thank you.

I don't know where they grow these people...but we need to burn those plots to the ground...LOL

Taxation is not theft when you change the definition of taxation or of theft.

Is it theft when the mafia king boss tells you to cough up $200 to make sure they can give you and your business some security in the neighborhood?

So when you are mugged (at gunpoint with the threat of imprisonment), And the criminal spends that money for your 'betterment' (buys you Ferrari), you're saying that would not be theft?

Unless you VOLUNTARILY cough up money to any government is's the same as me walking into your house unannounced and uninvited...and taking any/all of your possessions to provide your neighbors with a better lifestyle...if your okay with that, send me your address...we'll be right over...

A fine example of how we should be talking to the ones who think they have the rights to take our money.

That escalated quickly. Lol

I don't understand. ?

I mean the pro-tax people really showed their faces among the wrong people and were outnumbered by the pro-freedom/anti-tax people

Well I think taxation is a really a good thing but the way some countries are taking it am not really impressed.because it seems to be one of their main source of income. I have tried clicking and watching the video but my network is really bad I shall try again later

What, do you think that the way the US is taxing us is not that bad? Any taxation is bad.


I'm a libertarian but tax has some meaning for society as well. Don't tax businesses, tax citizens when they spend their money. Dubai style. Works.

Or just don't have forced transactions? Open borders and no taxes and we would all be much better off.

Not true. There are a minimum amount of services that are better provided by public institutions than with private companys. For example, most of infraestructures building within a country. Better to handle that with a national plan than with a bounch of different companys with no plan att all other than cash in as much as possible.

Are you aware that the infrastructure is already built by private companies that are contracted by the government? So, why is there the middleman, if they serve no actual functional purpose? I'd much rather pay tolls for the roads I do use than be forced to pay taxes for insane unnecessary infrastructure projects being forwarded by megalomaniacs.

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I'm not saying there isn't room for tax reform, but if these little snowflakes think roads, utilities, and services just magically appear, they're dumber than I feared.

No but government services Magically cost triple what they do in the private sector.

The Automobile just magically appeared, not because of government but even in spite of government. I am pretty sure we would of figured out how to make flat road with nothing but tar for those cars. When was the last time you saw a government employee laying out tar for those roads?

How the fuck are these idiots in crypto?

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I have one question for everyone

Thanks for being honest

Wow, so beautiful! Adam sharpened his mind like a jedi/samurai in an isolated cage that the worlds largest and most powerful gov't yet had thrown him in and comes back stronger like a revenant!

Mafia blackmail, easy and simple. They have reclassified themselves as a government. Nice guy, though. Basically he says he doesn't make the rules we live in. Funny, if you think about it. None of us make the rules that we are forced to live by, a few elite do it for us

this is how most people think @adamkokesh. you have a difficult job ahead of you!

I don't think it's theft, because that would be defined in the Arizona revised statutes as a theft and they don't define this as a theft.

Not theft, we don't call it that. The authorities have the power to define what is theft and what is just 'taxation' under the constitution. Huh?

You can argue whether it's right or wrong and all that, but what it is, from a pragmatic standpoint - it's reality, it is what it is.

Here's his most honest answer. It's reality. It is what it is. There's nothing you can do about it. Just pay your taxes like a good citizen. Don't call it theft, that makes the government sound criminal! But we're the good guys!

What he should have said is:

You do not own that property, you are leasing it from us, who represent the society at large. Given the correct political climate, we could rezone your property to commercial and bulldoze your entire neighborhood all for the greater good of society. Your house may be where a highway needs to be - for the greater good you must sell or be removed forcibly from your property. This is your civic duty.

Listening carefully, around 6:32 Mr. Jacobs says "yes" when asked if property tax is legalized theft:

"So subject to that, that's legalized theft under the Arizona Revised Statutes." "Yes"


That is pretty solid stuff! I live in Arizona as well and to me they certainly shouldn't be saying that people "own" their property. If the current tax rules are in place they at least need to change the verbiage to "lease". Maybe even change it to "Lease with Government Option To Re-Occupy"

I understand you thinking it is thief, but if the statues are in place it cannot be considered thief by law. However, The true thief of our nation is having to pay income taxes, when the law was never radified. They make you think it is law but is only a prema fasa law or presumed law. This is for employees only! When you fill out your w4 when you start a job,it asked how many deductions you want and you sign it. You are giving the goverment permission to tax you,arrest you, jail you,etc. But if you read down at the bottom there is another option and it is to not tax you. How many people dont understand that and pay taxes. it is only a presumed law. On the other hand if you publicly run your mouth about it, they will arrest you and jail you. You have to pay lawyers to get out of it. Which would be easy to do since no irs agent cant prove it is a law, but still it is the intimidation they used to get you to pay illegal income taxes. FOR EMPLOYEES ONLY.

Wow very interesting!