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RE: Bad Whales Pt.2 @bernisanders Flagging Posts for No Real Reason
I think it's worth also quoting in part the text that proceeds and follows
The only “problem” with crab mentality is when people w rongly believe someone is profiting at everyone else's expense.
Eliminating “abuse” is not possible and shouldn’t be the goal. Even those who are attempting to “abuse” the system are still doing work. [...] All that is necessary is to ensure that abuse isn’t so rampant that it undermines the incentive to do real work in support of the community and its currency.
Or, there's that famous quote that goes something like "It's not enough to succeed, your friends must also fail".
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@personz "All that is necessary is to ensure that abuse isn’t so rampant that it undermines the incentive to do real work in support of the community and its currency."
I think that is going on presently, is it not? Flagging sure is discouraging and how is that not undermining incentive?
I think it is for the flagged in some cases, or in some cases it encourages them more! But even still, there's a hit that gets taken with the discouragement even to the most resilient I would say, rants be damned.
Perhaps we're experiencing a bit of bystander effect? But I guess it concerns us all
Yes I have never been flagged on a blog post. Yet I've seen people leave from it, I've had family member that got flagged by @asshole and didn't know anything about bots, and she was really depressed. I taught her how to look at accounts and showed her how to tell it was a bot, showed her that it wasn't targeting just her, and then explained reputation and steem power and told her it didn't actually do anything to her.
That takes knowledge and research a lot of people haven't done, and as more people come here the population without that knowledge will likely be greater.
I've also seen lurkers that have come here and have seen it and STATED that is the reason they did not join steemit. Those were generally people who dislike reddit for the same reason.
So is the goal to grow the platform, or be the personal fiefdom of whales?
Maybe we need a bot to post a comment on the newbie accounts posts that get flagged for the first time? Maybe everyone below 100 SP and time since first post < 1 or 2 months. Just with a little explainer. Basically doing what you did but automatically.
Or maybe that's fighting fire with fire, which, though sounds good in movies, burns the whole place down 😅
Your idea is not bad. I'd love to see a way where there was no need for a down vote, yet there are some cases where it is needed.
As ultimately whether someone likes Anchovies or not does not mean I run around yanking Anchovies off of the shelves in super markets because I don't like it. Also me walking around saying that is too expensive and pulling out my marker to reduce the price of someone elses product doesn't work either.
Why is there a down vote that does these things? The answer to that is because none of us (including Dan) have come up with a way to do it that wouldn't open the door to even more gaming of the system. Worse there would be no way to check that gaming.
I don't fight fire with fire. I don't believe that someone doing wrong means I should do wrong back. I use words, and reason. These days that may not always work, and usually it doesn't. Yet sometimes it does.
I mean they more or less say in the whitepaper they want more crabs in the bucket, i.e this kind of crabs pulling crabs down is part of the original idea for the system.
You're right, Dan doesn't seem to have a better idea, personally I think they're satisfied with it as it currently stands.
Though I like the big ideas, practical small steps are what I do, I'm not a big person. I'm the guy pulling people out of fights and making sure they don't get killed in real like. Not butting in to resolving deputes but trying to help in a small way.
On your anchovies analogy, I think if a system is premised on power as the means and ends of action then this kind of thing is bound to happen.
And I definitely don't believe in fire with fire. I think words still work. Reason? I'm not so sure! 😅
I've logged the idea here anyway in the Steem FOSSbot ideas list 🙂
I've actually engaged with Dan in one of my posts on flags. He is not satisfied with it. He just has no solution. He actually has said he'd love an up votes only solution, but due to game theory there currently needs to be a down vote.
Yet he is aware of the problem. Being aware doesn't provide a solution though. Many things you can try to do only open the door for a different style of gaming. Some of them open the door to unchecked gaming.
So he doesn't want this. Simply has no idea yet as to how it can be fixed...
In fact this is a problem society has been dealing with in all of history. There is no true Utopia.
I do find it Ironic that one of the people acting like the people Bernie Sanders bashes in his speeches is the person using his name as a handle.
Kind of like if Satan opened up an account here and called himself @ThePope
Oh right! I stand corrected. Do you have a link to that exchange? I'd love to read it.
I think you're right, there is no true utopia. It's messy. I think that's where these appeals, fights and such come in, they're actually part of the system correction, always have been. Perhaps the difference here is that there are no private fights, on the blockchain anyway. This is here for us all to see.
It was in that post. Though during that I was also finally convinced that the flag needs to stay at the moment for game theory reasons. Up votes only would make the system completely gameable and exploitable.
Thank you for this, and the interesting chat
Or maybe that's fighting fire with fire, which, though sounds good in movies, burns the whole place down 😅
Yup