Bad Whales Pt.2 @bernisanders Flagging Posts for No Real Reason

in flagging •  2 years ago  (edited)

@bernisanders just flagged one of my last posts because he just wants to be that kind of low consciousness being.

If anyone wants to get rid of bots for everyone on the platform, please do. But targeting me for getting bots is lame when @xeldal and other autovoters vote for others as well.

Stop flagging me and grow up, or I'll keep exposing your bullshit behavior, ok?

Flagged: Plain Packaging for Cigarettes Reduces Smoking

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The @berniesanders hate is strong here, but they indeed have a checkered past as a positive Steemit community member so I get why folks feel that way.

Edit: I have no reason to personally distrust @berniesanders, but the general community seems to find the account behavior strange

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Eh, it's really just the ones who I've never voted on or flagged for various reasons. If you actually look at the flagging data on steemdb.com you'll see most claims are highly exaggerated. How often do you see any real data to back up these claims?

Here you go, from https://steemdb.com/labs/flags :
pimage

Take a look at the accounts I've flagged there, you'll clearly see why I did so.

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Hey, @berniesanders I think it's just a waste of time to reply to @krnel posts because how I see it, he is just too busy to make money and he forgot the most important thing about a social media platform that is to socialize with people, or at least with people who are commenting on his posts. I think is just disrespectful​ for the people who are commenting on his posts and for that I'm not going to be his follower anymore, so @krnel don't bother​ to reply because I will not write you back anymore.
And if you think that you didn't lose much, well I'm sure that if people will feel the way I feel will do the same. I'm curious​ how many of your robots will write you a comment and what you will do if they will stop voting your posts?
Stop complaining about that someone flagged few of your posts because even so, you are making a lot more money than a lot of people!

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Yes, don't actually go look at posts to see where I comment. Obviously, I don't comment. A good lie you're spinning, fool.

https://steemit.com/@krnel/comments

No comments there, you're right, good thing a genius like you is here to lie about what is going on ;)

I didn't read the comments in the thread yesterday because most of it is BS and I don't have the time to correct everyone's errors like you created here. Learn to think and stop spreading false information.

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check what's below, there is more below :D the iceberg is worth it :D

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I'm not against anybody man, and I respect @krnel's work because he is really good at what his doing. I felt a little disappointed when I saw that he wrote that post and a lot of people commented on that post, and he should take a little​ time to answer to those people because this is a social media platform in the first place, ​is not only about making money.
I'm not arguing with you or @krnel, I'm sharing my opinion and if you don't agree that doesn't mean I'm wrong and you or @krnel are right!
And remember it's easier​ to make bad than good, but doesn't mean that you have to do bad because it's easier. I hope you understand what I'm trying to point here​!

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yeah screw that guy making posts all day, he's clearly not spending 40 hours a day making steemit great again, he's probably responsible for the affordable upvote act and the drone strikes by the blacklist and the merc armies, surely his upvote can save the world and his comments can solve problems magically.

I agree with your closing statements, but Imagine being for instance Johnny Depp and answering every question/comment on wherever you are :|

Me j3dy comparedto krnel
@j3dy 14 Posts, 1466 Comments@krnel 528 Posts, 2685 Comments

Sure he's slacking off he needs to have 55289 comments based on my standards

55289

55289

55289

GET TO WORK YOU BOT VOTER MANIPULATOR :|

I need to sleep really this bullshit is making me lose it again :D

He probably won't answer and post 10 more posts, thus widening the divide and adding the need for another 500 comments :|

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I'm not asking that he should reply to all comments, but when he started complaining about something, and he sees a lot of people are commenting on his post, what he is doing? make other posts and don't answer because they are all wrong and he is always right?
Nobody is perfect @krnel, and I'm not accusing that you don't ever reply to other people, it was all about that specific post you started.
You can show a little appreciation to the people even if you are not agreeing with them. This is how you solve things, making conversations​, not complaining, that's not the solution! But what do I know, I'm just a guy who says BS as the others, plus I spread false information!

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:D dude please you are flaming harder than me, I said this morning I wasn't going to care any more I already have my answers :D already commented the bullshit. It's either you aren't Yelping or don't let the man get you down or dunno that's it :D all my other comments are rants :D from last night that is :D shit topics tend to do that :D

for @krnel personally yes he's like a stuck-up troll from time to time, just saying that's the impression I got :D I've chatted him in a few lines. THEN HE DIDN't RESPOND cry cry :D :D anyway it's his problem why are you all getting on the bandwagon. :D it's a nice place to have toxic conversation. Plus he problem is bernie not giving a fuck if you ask me, he could have stopped this bs months ago this is the 4-5th installment on the whale wars. :D

@krnel nothing against you but I've already said it I can't read your stuff comment and then pay attention to other people's too, so I tend to upvote it because it's good but TLDR :D ad I have it on my list to read all your stuff.

Still I hope you can manage to take everything into account a few times maybe and get some valuable information and ideas from the past "warfield" :D

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  ·  2 years ago (edited)

Well I was burned out on this bullshit.

For krnel I hope he can learn

For you nothing against you :)
it's hard reading/ writing/ looking/ searching/ formatting/ ..... fit in comments and chats in there and yeah 40 hours a day :D its too much to handle. He answers some, from time to time, but I bet he skims the comments at the least. I've even gotten some boons from him for just that

PS
I'm following almost all of you people here :D so I'd rather see you do well and learn collectively

These emotional backlashes and outreaches are a bit counter-productive .

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Hehe... funny how absolutes are usually wrong like "Never". You've voted on me, yet I suspected it might be the people you have Curate for you if you still do that.

Yet I don't need your votes. I'd be fine with no votes if it got people like you to stop attacking people.

Oh and anyone else reading this... he often says he didn't even read what he flagged.

EDIT: Though you have NEVER flagged a post of mine, only comments. That is primarily because I don't write about this to defend myself. I write about it to defend the community.

Crabs in a bucket, this is actually mentioned in the whitepaper.

The Story of the Crab Bucket

A man was walking along the beach and saw another man fishing in the surf with a bait bucket beside him. As he drew closer, he saw that the bait bucket had no lid and had live crabs inside.

"Why don't you cover your bait bucket so the crabs won't escape?", he said.

"You don't understand.", the man replied, "If there is one crab in the bucket it would surely crawl out very quickly. However, when there are many crabs in the bucket, if one tries to crawl up the side, the others grab hold of it and pull it back down so that it will share the same fate as the rest of them."

So it is with people. If one tries to do something different, get better grades, improve herself, escape her environment, or dream big dreams, other people will try to drag her back down to share their fate.

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I think it's worth also quoting in part the text that proceeds and follows

The only “problem” with crab mentality is when people w rongly believe someone is profiting at everyone else's expense.

Eliminating “abuse” is not possible and shouldn’t be the goal. Even those who are attempting to “abuse” the system are still doing work. [...] All that is necessary is to ensure that abuse isn’t so rampant that it undermines the incentive to do real work in support of the community and its currency.

Or, there's that famous quote that goes something like "It's not enough to succeed, your friends must also fail".

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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@personz "All that is necessary is to ensure that abuse isn’t so rampant that it undermines the incentive to do real work in support of the community and its currency."
I think that is going on presently, is it not? Flagging sure is discouraging and how is that not undermining incentive?

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I think it is for the flagged in some cases, or in some cases it encourages them more! But even still, there's a hit that gets taken with the discouragement even to the most resilient I would say, rants be damned.

Perhaps we're experiencing a bit of bystander effect? But I guess it concerns us all

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Yes I have never been flagged on a blog post. Yet I've seen people leave from it, I've had family member that got flagged by @asshole and didn't know anything about bots, and she was really depressed. I taught her how to look at accounts and showed her how to tell it was a bot, showed her that it wasn't targeting just her, and then explained reputation and steem power and told her it didn't actually do anything to her.

That takes knowledge and research a lot of people haven't done, and as more people come here the population without that knowledge will likely be greater.

I've also seen lurkers that have come here and have seen it and STATED that is the reason they did not join steemit. Those were generally people who dislike reddit for the same reason.

So is the goal to grow the platform, or be the personal fiefdom of whales?

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Maybe we need a bot to post a comment on the newbie accounts posts that get flagged for the first time? Maybe everyone below 100 SP and time since first post < 1 or 2 months. Just with a little explainer. Basically doing what you did but automatically.

Or maybe that's fighting fire with fire, which, though sounds good in movies, burns the whole place down 😅

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Maybe we need a bot to post a comment on the newbie accounts posts that get flagged for the first time? Maybe everyone below 100 SP and time since first post < 1 or 2 months. Just with a little explainer. Basically doing what you did but automatically.
Or maybe that's fighting fire with fire, which, though sounds good in movies, burns the whole place down 😅

Your idea is not bad. I'd love to see a way where there was no need for a down vote, yet there are some cases where it is needed.

As ultimately whether someone likes Anchovies or not does not mean I run around yanking Anchovies off of the shelves in super markets because I don't like it. Also me walking around saying that is too expensive and pulling out my marker to reduce the price of someone elses product doesn't work either.

Why is there a down vote that does these things? The answer to that is because none of us (including Dan) have come up with a way to do it that wouldn't open the door to even more gaming of the system. Worse there would be no way to check that gaming.

I don't fight fire with fire. I don't believe that someone doing wrong means I should do wrong back. I use words, and reason. These days that may not always work, and usually it doesn't. Yet sometimes it does.

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I mean they more or less say in the whitepaper they want more crabs in the bucket, i.e this kind of crabs pulling crabs down is part of the original idea for the system.

The goal of building a community currency is to get more “crabs in the bucket”.

You're right, Dan doesn't seem to have a better idea, personally I think they're satisfied with it as it currently stands.

Though I like the big ideas, practical small steps are what I do, I'm not a big person. I'm the guy pulling people out of fights and making sure they don't get killed in real like. Not butting in to resolving deputes but trying to help in a small way.

On your anchovies analogy, I think if a system is premised on power as the means and ends of action then this kind of thing is bound to happen.

And I definitely don't believe in fire with fire. I think words still work. Reason? I'm not so sure! 😅

I've logged the idea here anyway in the Steem FOSSbot ideas list 🙂

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You're right, Dan doesn't seem to have a better idea, personally I think they're satisfied with it as it currently stands.

I've actually engaged with Dan in one of my posts on flags. He is not satisfied with it. He just has no solution. He actually has said he'd love an up votes only solution, but due to game theory there currently needs to be a down vote.

Yet he is aware of the problem. Being aware doesn't provide a solution though. Many things you can try to do only open the door for a different style of gaming. Some of them open the door to unchecked gaming.

So he doesn't want this. Simply has no idea yet as to how it can be fixed...

In fact this is a problem society has been dealing with in all of history. There is no true Utopia.

I do find it Ironic that one of the people acting like the people Bernie Sanders bashes in his speeches is the person using his name as a handle.

Kind of like if Satan opened up an account here and called himself @ThePope

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Oh right! I stand corrected. Do you have a link to that exchange? I'd love to read it.

I think you're right, there is no true utopia. It's messy. I think that's where these appeals, fights and such come in, they're actually part of the system correction, always have been. Perhaps the difference here is that there are no private fights, on the blockchain anyway. This is here for us all to see.

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Oh right! I stand corrected. Do you have a link to that exchange? I'd love to read it.

It was in that post. Though during that I was also finally convinced that the flag needs to stay at the moment for game theory reasons. Up votes only would make the system completely gameable and exploitable.

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Thank you for this, and the interesting chat

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Maybe we need a bot to post a comment on the newbie accounts posts that get flagged for the first time? Maybe everyone below 100 SP and time since first post < 1 or 2 months. Just with a little explainer. Basically doing what you did but automatically.

Or maybe that's fighting fire with fire, which, though sounds good in movies, burns the whole place down 😅

Yup

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This is a good reminder, @neoxian

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lets earn those zeroes :) vote at 1% then somebody can downvote and it's all cool :)

There are few things which I find reprehensible on steemit I am pleased to say! One I do find deplorable is the intra-voting which goes on amongst the whales. This creates rewards in an undeserving fashion whilst impeding the decentralisation of the platform, dissuading new users and reducing the price of steem.
I have no personal axe to grind with @berniesanders, he has been good enough to vote on some of my work of late for which I am grateful, as do you, @krnel for which I am equally grateful. Whale antics have only one place to be sorted out and that is in the whale weigh station.
A PM system as we have on steemit.chat would mitigate the need to rail, though I understand that flags are a pain. Minnows suffer the dreaded flag worse than most and we get scant notice when we bring it up.
I received a whale flag on a post just after it was posted. It killed the post. It turned out that the flag was made in error ... sorry! A bit like a US drone attack's effort to make amends.
Less votes, minimum 50% and no flags - but we need to be able to put a mark on a post if it is plagiarism or a blatant C&P.

I hate to use Flag. Even when I watch the content is not only a good closed the page.
Building society here needs to be cooperation, there is also some new members. We have to learn and help them

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Welcome mate like your poetry, can't keep up but I like seeing you post daily :) don't let the man get you down after all this is the Matrix :D

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Hello my brother @j3dy . I also like to follow you. But I did not understand what you mean .can't keep up ??????

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haha it's a reference

Don't Let The Man Get You Down by Fatboy Slim

the matrix part should be easy :)

Building society here needs to be cooperation, there is also some new members. We have to learn and help them

In short it's something like don't let the system get you down. I know what you mean I've been saying it, sadly it's easier to downvote and thus give 20$ to somebody else than teach the "overated" poster that there are other people too and much are getting 0.00 that and the fact that teaching people is harder than making "earnings"

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Yes, @mars9

If whales flag just whales, while they make a big splash together, it may or may not affect the whole ocean.

If whales flag minnows, whimsically, they kill the minnows. @krnel

Kill the minnows, kill the platform.

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Is @krnel still a Minnow? In my understanding of the Steemclasses–System he is a dolphin, member of witnesses and nobody killed him. Not in reality, even not in Steemit. He is a quite vital player, strong enough to tell a whale his points of view.

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I never really know what a dolphin is.

https://steemd.com/distribution

Shows a chart and it is based off of vests. On that I am a hero, and have quite aways to go before becoming a superhero. Yet Minnow, Dolphin, Whale... there are more stages in that than three. I've thought if Dolphin is a combination of Hero and superhero it might make sense.

@krnel has

Which clearly puts him in the Super Hero category... so yeah he is likely a dolphin.

I believe I've just exposed YOU for taking advantage of a voting bot that will vote on any of your posts. You know that not matter what you post, including transcriptions of the daily news, you'll get votes from @xeldal and @enki. I don't blame you for taking advantage, but it's pretty low given all of your rants. Don't you think?

Again, good try. If you didn't have those bot votes, you wouldn't be earning nearly what you are and you know it.

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Not his fault people use bots and have a script to automatically vote on his posts. Should be taking it out the people that vote, it's not because of posts or @krnel. It's the voters themselves, the system, and having gamification with monetary rewards.

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I just spoke with @xeldal and he will adjust his bot to not allow people to continue to take advantage like we're seeing here.

My flags are the same as not having a bot voting on the posts...I really don't see the problem with negating votes where someone has taken advantage.

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Well I think that should of been the first move but glad to see some activity on this topic. How is he taking advantage if he has no control over the bots? Is he manipulating xeldal to run the bot to automatically vote his posts?

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:D yeah hes hypnotizing the bots with a payout every time so they vote for him :)

It's a bit retarded tho, at least hes putting in the hours, and taking his time around the discussions.

Sure he can stay here for 20 hours more and reward more people but are any of the whales doing that, as far as I can see the dolphins are the only active parts, the whales splash around here and there but they aren't everywhere, sure they are less, but they don't post, almost don't comment.


Ok they have earned their rest (@Whales), but at least participate, vote the comments or smth. They can experiment on the platform and save us the Hard Forks that way. Actually running a social study will be easy as pie here if you can gather and manage the data. Whale can go around voting for comments for a week see how that goes, then not vote see that, then downvote(moderate) then resteem who knows, just ideas at this point.

Best of all they should use their earnings and really invest like in the development of the platform not just banking a lowering currency, or at least retire and help the newbies many will thank you and write poems for you :) @berniesanders

Still not my place to tell you what to do with your money there are others far weightier we can get the blubber from :D

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

Instead of ""exposing your bullshit behavior"" @krnel, you could maybe try to post different kind of content, looks like kindergarten , or don't be too serious about it, take a break, go for a walk, make respiration exercises, or take a small vacation with your Steemit earnings , and come back with original fresh posts ? hope it can help to cool down your engine

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He posts quite a bit of different content. A lot of it has gotten flagged, and they were well written and food for thought. He didn't start writing this type of post until he had been attacked quite a few times.

He also made a lot more off of those posts than these, even the ones that were flagged. So these posts are clearly not about money. He is also not writing these posts just for himself, he is not saying, Please stop down voting me, but continue to do it to anyone else.

yay are we ready for the war? would you like some oil for the fire :)

burn it all :D burn the flags :D burn the votes :D eat the whales :D :D

Nice discussion going on here , will check it out later. Maaan this steemit is draining the life out of me and it wants more and more :D

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

I will be downvoting this if it still has rewards later as a pointless whine about not earning and a personal attack against another user for voting as he sees fit. Get over yourself.

OMG - still discussing? Cooperate on the community behalf - what shall newbies think?

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nope nobody saw it :D oh just me I guess a quick heads up comments a like posts, you can right click the time and copy the link then delete everything between the category and the hash therefore your comment will show up as a post :) so

https://steemit.com/flagging/@uwelang/re-krnel-bad-whales-pt-2-bernisanders-flagging-posts-for-no-real-reason-20170224t133218250z

aaand 1 view :)

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Thanks mate :-) @j3dy - can learn from you

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fun times, i hope :D what are you up to btw :) lots of beer :), btw I did get a great bottle last day :D sadly a bit overpriced, maybe pull some strings and get more of that awesome German Brew's around the globe, send me a drone if that doesn't work :) actually are you up for a "game" wanna try making a beer delivery drone :D it would be better watching the whale wars from afar :D

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nice idea on the beer drone

Don't worry Krnel, after Steeminc changes N SQUARED to linear, then the whales will be more powerless against you, and you will be able to milk maximize your daily STEEM harvest by posting 10-20 posts per day!

Personally I love the flags, nails, etc. Always have always will. I would flag this comment if I could (fork that STEEMINC!). Who would have thought that they would lift the spam filter just to try to convince more people to show up?

Besides me 10 months ago of course?

https://steemit.com/steem/@steemjesus/make-money-with-steem-in-3-easy-steps--no-creativity-required-

Now, instead of 5000 people spamming the chain, we have 3 because that's exactly the way they wanted it.

Removing N^2 will make us minnows more powerful after now that the spam filter is removed and we can post endlessly.

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yay time to pack the bags and swim the sea of trash and oil :|