Engagement league analysis part 2 - average number of characters per comment
I was thinking if there could be any other relevant metric for Ashers weekly engagement league?
And the idea crossed my mind to have a look at the average number of characters per comment. So here we go.
With an average of 761 characters per comment @glenalbrethsen is extra terrestrial!
No one even gets closer to this high average. Although @abh12345 tries a little with an also beautiful average of
488 characters per comment.
Laat week I only had an average of 156 ☺️😔. But there are a few Steemonians that even beat me on the bottom of this list. @yasu24 is the bottom scorer with 70.
Now let's see what happens if I somehow use this criteria to calculate the total scored points. Or I should actually say recalculate.
First I calculated the average characters per comment for all Steemonians in my table. The I calculated the individual deviation between the total average and the individual average. Glens 2.37 means his average is 2.37 times above the total average. In other words that is 237%. Then I take 1/5 of this percentage and add that as bonus to the points already scored. 237%/5=47.4%.
40.537*1.474=59.752
With this addition to the current setup Glen would have won last week. Although I would prefer the current setup 😁😬.
And what about you?
| User name | C | C - L | Average C - L | C-L compared to average | New points |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| @Janton | 1194 | 244323 | 205 | -0,09 | 57965 |
| @glenalbrethsen | 307 | 233759 | 761 | 2,37 | 59752 |
| @themanwithnoname | 477 | 153714 | 322 | 0,42 | 34389 |
| @lynncoyle1 | 547 | 143482 | 262 | 0,16 | 32596 |
| @gillianpearce | 535 | 106175 | 198 | -0,12 | 24414 |
| @abh12345 | 239 | 116698 | 488 | 1,16 | 26961 |
| @bengy | 298 | 40791 | 137 | -0,39 | 10082 |
| @headchange | 195 | 41253 | 212 | -0,06 | 10521 |
| @crypto-econom1st | 205 | 31907 | 156 | -0,31 | 8870 |
| @steevc | 216 | 28670 | 133 | -0,41 | 7127 |
| @simplymike | 146 | 26922 | 184 | -0,19 | 6876 |
| @cioto | 238 | 19925 | 84 | -0,63 | 6047 |
| @sparkesy43 | 183 | 14918 | 82 | -0,64 | 5467 |
| @choogirl | 98 | 12223 | 125 | -0,45 | 5438 |
| @blazing | 405 | 32467 | 80 | -0,65 | 4929 |
| @lyndsaybowes | 134 | 15587 | 116 | -0,49 | 5013 |
| @tsnaks | 108 | 8071 | 75 | -0,67 | 3498 |
| @yasu24 | 152 | 10579 | 70 | -0,69 | 2764 |
| Total | 5677 | 1281464 | 226 |
This is interesting @crypto-econom1st, but I think you might have a little too much time on your hands haha (just kidding :) Some of my comments are longer, some shorter; it all depends on each thing I'm commenting on. In the end, Glen is the only novelist here haha, but janton could be a close second for sure!
So, if we're comparing styles, here, I'm the novelist and janton is the author with the compendium of short stories. :) They both add up to a book, but in his case, there are up to ten stories being told. We end up with similar CL, but he covers more territory. He rightfully earns more points and takes first place because it's not just about CL, it's also about how many conversations are being held and for how long.
You are totally right. All to engagers are great and add value. And most likely all with their own style. In fact none of us should change their style. Cause having 10 novelists wouldn't be really funny. And taking about fun, that's part of my style. At least I hope to create a smile so now and then.
There's probably more novelists than that already. Just as there's a gazillion folks producing fortune cookie fortune sized comments, too. I guess it all goes into the mix. :)
I've noticed he's very good at asking people questions to keep the conversation going.
Have you noticed that too? 😎
Well played.
He does, and it's good. You know. You're good at it too. There's bound to be more to know or learn in most conversations. Especially if they're short replies back and forth. Nothing wrong with that.
I just need to crack that mine of commenting gold and dig it for all it's worth. So far, it's been elusive. I honestly think I'm just not going to find it. Every now and then a vein opens up and I go for it. The rest of you do it regularly, though, so I've just got to figure it out. No whining. :)
sounds like whining @glenalbrethsen 😎
Just kidding! Actually, in my house, we call that half kidding !!
I really don't have enough time. I think I still have to answer all comments I received in the last 3 days. I will now only answer the replies to this post.
I Also have about 15 posts that I would like to read. And let's not talk about my non Steemit to do list 😔😥
That really chops a lot of people's scores right down eh!
It's certainly worth toying with the numbers, but I think the result is mostly going to be the same.
Glen wins on the revision, but that's not to say janton isn't engaging well with his shorter comments.
Hmmm 😊
Hey, @abh12345. As I told crypto-econom1st, I think CL has enough weight as it is. Average CL is only going to put more weight on it. I do like the idea of average CL, though, because while the more you say doesn't necessarily mean quality engagement, neither does the least you say. At some point, we get into what we would otherwise call spam comments on the low end and on the high end adding CL to pad the numbers, or whatever else we would call it.
Quality, as has been said numerous times, is in the eye of the beholder. But if 10 comments of lower CL keeps the engagement going than that to me is a good indicator of quality engagement. What's being said in the comment gets harder to evaluate, but for some reason, there are two parties thinking the conversation is worth continuing.
So, in my opinion, you have a good balance going to measure engagement as is. Average CL is only going to put more weight on things, unless it's swapped out for overall CL. Then, I don't know what happens. :)
Indeed.
I had mentioned changed for the coming week, but the more I read and think about it, the more my brain hurts and I wonder if sticking to the current setup is best.
Curie are happy to support, there is no-one (to my knowledge) trying to cheat the system, and the only real 'complaint' of sorts came on the '100 list' post yesterday.
If it ain't broke don't try to fix it?
I'm perfectly okay with the "ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy. I think we all want people to continue to be interested and participate and engage. I think, though, that there's only so much you can do to incentivize and foster it, and then it's up to the rest of us to keep coming back and bringing it each week. And overshadowing all of this is the time factor. It is what it is.
I've been trying to measure my output against myself mostly, and then use other's achievements to up my game. I think it's been working so far, though I know the number of comments I'll make won't ever reach those of many of the rest. They just can't. However, there probably is more I can do to make the count a little more respectable.
In the end, the idea is still to get out there on the platform and influence our little corner of STEEM. That's what matters, and it can be fun and fulfilling in and of itself. The leagues are even more fun and rewarding, so there's really not a whole lot of excuses besides the amount of time someone has to just keep engaging.
I think there's just going to be people who complain. I'm pretty sure it's a prerequisite for knowing "you've arrived."
Or else you're husband and a parent. That's where most of the complaints I get come from. :)
I think i'm going to opt for this approach again this week, and ignore the one complaint.
This morning has been an hour in the comments, and I've still got a bunch to respond to. Finding this balance between your own posts and replying courteously is getting tougher!
I can only imagine!
I can see it getting tougher for you to get through stuff. I've had a harder time keeping up with the replies while falling behind on posts without all you do (I have been helping to watch our granddaughter some), so I can just imagine how it's going for you with the Utopian gig, plus your own activity on Steemit, plus the witness and the things you're trying to do and foster there, plus whatever else you have going. There truly is only so much time in the day. And mine is frequently gone before I think it should be.
Okay, well, I look forward to another week of status quo. And ignoring the one complaint is great. As in, Complaint? What complaint? I didn't see no stinking complaint. :)
You are spot on here Glen.
It's taking me a good few hours each day dedicated solely to comment replies.
@hitmeasap put a post out the other day in which he highlighted a frequent trender who had not written a single reply as yet.
I'm finding it tough to manage a post (where lets face it, the majority of income comes from) as well as get through all the worthy replies - which is where the engagement and community comes from.
I am unwilling/unable to drop either side, so i guess it's a case of Steem on til the break of dawn for me :)
It's definitely a balance. You've got to find it first, no easy task, and then you've got to strike it. Again, not all that easy. After that, you've got to maintain it, despite everything that can and will go wrong.
I think it's a wonder anyone of us make it in life period, with all the curves that get thrown our way. We can go years without even knowing a balance actually exists, and then more years trying to figure out how to incorporate it.
I hope you figure it out without throwing yourself into complete and utter exhaustion. That won't help. :)
This reply makes me indeed wonder about (1) how much time does it take to read and respond to all comments you receive for your own posts? And (2) do you use Ginabot? And if so how much time does it take to read and follow up all your notifications?
2/3 hours if I've not checked up on things for 10/12 hours (evening and sleep).
It's a reasonable task each day, but can I complain about having some of most engaged accounts visiting me each day? I don't think so :)
I do use ginabot, which is why a lot of the votes appear on posts that have mentioned me. If it's too obvious of a name drop though, I tend not to vote/comment.
Do you think that tagging users is a strategy being used by many Steemonians?
I personally only tag because I either want someone to answer something or just to read something. But I did notice that my 2 posts about the engagement league got for me very high upvote values (around $1).
It does make sense.
Only to keep it really exciting or to discourage cheaters you could/should change the concept. But that doesn't seem necessary.
What complaint about the top100?
I think i'll keep the same for now :)
Check the thread started by phoenixwren on the top 100 post.
So what you basically say in your first paragraph is that you can cut the crap and deliver exactly the same message in a much shorter comment?
😋😜
I thought I was saying that it's possible for some people to say nothing with 1000 CL, while others can say nothing with 100 CL. It's less about the CL as it is about the content of the comment, and whether it engages others. Only those doing the engaging can really determine if the conversation is worth having and continuing, and there's not really another true metric to measure it.
That's true. I mean that only we can determine if this conversation is still valuable. Also because people judge that differently. Personally I like both serious as well as funny comments. And I most prefer comments with analysis or a different opinion.
How about you? Any preferences?
I'm not sure if I have any preferences as far a content or tone go. I try to respond to whatever I'm given, and if there's nothing more to say, I move on to the next one. If anything, I'm most interested in the conversations that neither person is ready to give up because both are interested in what's being said. Which means the topics could be wide ranging, and the tone of the conversations could be too. It's when both people are excited to exchange ideas, riff on funny remarks, learn, collaborate, etc., that things get good for me.
A bit of a different subject, but did you read all the comments below Ashers top100 post? And more specific the con about quantity that shanibeer addressed?
Do you know this Steemonian? And does he participate in the engagement league? I can't remember I saw his name before.
And another question, if you comment and read this much, can you still remember everything?
I sometimes need to read back my own comment after a few days, just because I can't remember what I wrote before.
I did read shanibeer's comments, and I think they have a point about quality of comments. Not all comments are created equal. There are hundreds of thousands of them that aren't even considered spam that probably wouldn't measure up to any quality test in and of themselves. Many of those, though, aren't meant to be awesome on their own, but part of the ongoing conversation. And really, those who are involved in the conversation need to determine whether the exchanges they're having are worth it or not.
Then, the question becomes, how do you measure quality? What do you use as parameters for a search on the blockchain? We currently have CL. Does that measure quality? Not really, because you can't see what's being said. And again, just like with posts, quality is in the eye of the beholder. So, even though I agree it's important, how do you count it? Someone would have to read every comment and grade it. Not going to happen.
I don't know if shanibeer participates or not. We don't see everyone who participates every week, so unless they crack the Top 20%, Asher would be the only one who knows. I think I've seen the account name before, but I don't know where.
I frequently need to go back and see what I've said before so I don't repeat it. More times than not, hours, sometimes a day or two, has passed and while I know the context, I'm not remembering the specifics.
Hi @crypto-econom1st, I'm @checky ! While checking the mentions made in this post I noticed that @ciuto doesn't exist on Steem. Did you mean to write @cito ?
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Corrected
I agree with @lynncoyle1, @crypto-econom1st: I think you've got too much time on your hands, lol.
I also agree with @abh12345 when he says shorter comments don't necessarily mean lesser engagement.
However, looking at your list, it's the first time in weeks I don't have the feeling I have failed, lol.
My list?
What list do you mean?
I think there are many people that never fail. You are one of them!
Not being in Asher's top 20 always feels like failing. I know that's subjective, but I'm kind of a competition freak, lol
In that case you should use some of the things from my analysis, just to get you a higher score. That does mean that you sometimes post something shitty, that probably should not have been posted.
But once you won the cup it doesn't matter how you did it 😁😬😎
Lol, but I do like to play it fair. There's lots of which I think I shouldn't have posted it, but only afterwards... and not on purpose ;0)
Sometimes I indeed wonder how it was possible that I wrote 100+ comments in 1 week. And then I remember that just a few of them are quite useless. Most of the time comments with bad jokes, sometimes only a smiley or something like thank you.
But then I always think that I'm not the only one that creates such comments. I think that even a few Steemonians in the engagement league produce just the same comments. With the same comments I mean the quality as well as the number of those low quality comments being produced.
I also think sometimes about the fact that we just get paid on Steemit to have some social media fun. Cause that's just how it works. And if you happen to know a whale or big Orca, then you are just lucky to have more financial fun.
I try to limit the number of short comments. Exceptions are days like these last ones, when I'm often short for words and I just reply with a simple 'thank you' or something.
I agree. Sometimes we're just goofing around and getting paid for that :0)
I haven't found a large sugar daddy yet, but I have loads of small ones. Maybe the pay isn't that big yet, but if we can keep this going until we're all dolphins or whales, the future is looking very bright :0)
In that case I just goof around (aanklooien in het Nederlands) until you guys have become a Dolphin and upvote my shit every day 😁😬😂
Hi I am glad I was tagged in this one or I may have missed it. Even if I weren't on the list it would be interesting to look at those numbers.
I think many of us just go around doing our thing on Steemit, not aware of exactly what we are doing. I know I am many times surprised to see my totals each week.
I think the current set up is very fair. I am so curious about next weeks changes. It seems to me comments are being measured from every possible angle already. Wonder if you have hit on what he has in mind?
Right now it looks like my posts could have caused that no changes will take place. But let's see.
Oh. Bottom score.
This comment won't really help 😀
Or look at it from the bright side. It will be very easy now to increase your average for this week 😀
Oh. I see. Interesting!
Lol 😂😁
Let me join you 😬
Hey, @crypto-econom1st. I do think you're onto something as far as CL per comment (of course I would say that), however, this would seem to add even more weight and emphasis to CL, which is already weighted pretty well, in my opinion. As I've been trying to say to whoever I've talked to about this, there is currently a balance going on, and I think it should be maintained, because the number of comments and the number of replies are just as important a measure of engagement.
If we're trying to say that average CL = quality of engagement, I am in agreement, to a certain extent. I don't think that the more is written automatically makes it quality, though. And most people in the leagues and on Steemit in general think they are having quality engagement at much lower CL per comment.
Again, I agree, but just as the higher CL doesn't necessarily equate to quality, lower CL at some point doesn't either. In fact, that's where we get into what is commonly referred to as spam comments.
If all that's being said is, "This is awesome! Thanks for sharing!" but we really mean it and we know the person, is it any less spammy than the new person who hasn't built the relationship and may or may not mean it, too? Here not only are we dealing with quality, which is subjective and hard to quantify, but we're also getting into whether someone means what they've said, which is hard enough to discern on person face to face, let alone in a comment on a post.
Sorry, but reply to this one needs to wait until tomorrow morning. I how you understand this short delay.
Thanks in advance!
I agree, birth with the fact that CL does not directly say something about the quality and engagement level. As well as that it is already included well enough in the current engagement league setup.
Well in the end we can say that we all had a good conversation whether we should change the setup of the league or not.
Btw I do need to find a new subject for next weeks posts. Or perhaps I can do a few more analysis about the engagement league? Do you have any other ideas?
I think your right. Your post did stir up some discussion, and that is good. In the end, I think we want that on any post, especially one that centers around an engagement league.
I've been having a hard enough time lately coming up with my own topics. It probably has something to do with what I end up talking about in my comments. It's like I've already written a few posts by the time I get done at the end of the day.
Analysis isn't really my forte, either. I've done some statistical work on my own monthly progress, as you know, but aside from that, I don't really think in terms of pulling data and looking at it.
I have always wondered how many higher SP (say dolphin on up) actually lurk in arcange's dead fish count. I'll go looking for some completely different information and inevitably I'll run into sizable SP dead fish delegating SP to someone. So, they're not considered active because they don't post, comment and curate, but they're not totally inactive either. In other words, the account isn't totally abandoned.
I think engagement comes in a lot of different forms. Some are by lengthy comments, but at the same time, participation in little contests like @rentmoney's numbers game where comments are usually just entering a number are engaging in a different way. So you quantity doesn't always correlate to quality.
On a side note, I do have a question. How are image or GIF comments calculated for the basis of this? And for that matter your league too @abh12345? Is it counted as a single character, or the URL or something entirely different?
howdy today @crypto-econom1st! sorry I'm late to the party, just saw this post, will follow from now on. I can't possibly add anything that wasn't already discussed but wanted to show my support. Thanks for another great post!
Thanks for letting me know!
I actually figured that you would probably check your mentions. And that you would found the post via your mentions. But of course I couldn't be sure. So let's just ask, so you check your mentions?
And if you do, so you use Ginabot, steemworld or another option?
I just got Ginabot yesterday and just started using Steemworld today and checked my mentions for the first time, these tools should really speed things up for me and make it more efficient.
maybe I can accomplish something now! lol
I see that you are in The Neverlands, how cool. What is it like over there?
ok that's too broad of a question, do you work fulltime in a real world job?
At this moment it is very hot and dry for the summer. Normally we have some days with rain and temperatures around our even below 20 degrees Celsius. The current summer has probably an average temperature of 28 degrees. We even had a few days with 35 degrees. And I can't remember when we had some real rain for the last time. I think we had like 90 minutes of rain in the past 6-8 weeks.
well sir that sound like an actual drought! are all those flower fields irrigated with water from the channels?
I think most of them are. But atm not always allowed to do anymore. As the water levels in the channels are to low.
that doesn't sound good. is the water from the channels just for the crops?
Yeah, but normally the farmers don't need to take/use the water from the channels. There is usually enough rain. And the water level in the ground is sufficient. But not this year with already 6 or 8 weeks without a decent amount of rain.
I studied Economy (bachelor degree) and work over 15 years in the field of accounting and reporting/analysis. The first 12 years I always worked for a boss. And since mid 2015 I'm self employed. Which means I have to find my own temporary assignments. So far that goes very well. Since I started I only found 3 assignments. The last one was mid 2016 and I still work there as controller.
I always work 40-45 hours and have about 12-15 hours travel time per week.
So all together it is totally impossible to ever win the curation league. Although I would love to try one time 😀
howdy again @crypto-econom1st! well sir that is very impressive, you are on your own but working for a big company?
and the hours that you must be away from Steemit is almost all of them!
perhaps when you take a vacation from your real world job you could apply yourself to the contest?
Correct I always work for big companies. The current company has about € 250,000,000 yearly revenue. To give an indication about the company size.
When I have vacation I spend most of my time playing with my kids. And doing something lovely with my wife. So in the coming 3 decades I will most likely never be running for the first spot in the engagement league.
hhaha! no sir you have no need to that's for certain, I'm happy for you! God bless you and yours!
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