What Is Financial Value?

in #economics2 years ago (edited)

From my view, there is no such thing as objective, intrinsic financial value and all claims of "utility" value (with regards to finances) are just proxies for what individual actors transacting on a market decide based on current context. Financial value is an emergent property of moment-in-time, voluntary transactions which lead to price discovery.

That's what this video is all about. As we better understand economics, we can prosper and understand what gives cryptocurrency financial value. Governments and central banks understand these truths. It's past time we understand them also.

Click the image above (or the link below) to view this on DTube. Or you can view the embedded YouTube video here:

I'd love to know what you think in the comments.

How do you determine financial value?

Luke Stokes is a father, husband, programmer, STEEM witness, and voluntaryist who wants to help create a world we all want to live in. Visit UnderstandingBlockchainFreedom.com

I'm a Witness! Please vote for @lukestokes.mhth

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Hey @lukestokes. I just started to dig a bit deeper and to try to understand how the Steem economy works, and value is one of the things that definetly need to be defined.

I am already studying what is the actual definition of value, wich will probably be the next topic of my steemit guide.

But i think the main problem i see is that people can't understand that there is a big difference between "price" and "value", and that changes everything.

If possible, would be nice to hear your opinion on the article i wrote about the Steem economy concept

Excellent post and a great example of adding value to a discussion. Your post is already past 7 days so I can’t vote on it to reward you, but I’ll give you a nice vote here and a follow. If more people added value to comments like this there’d be no need for upvote bots for attention or useless spam. Well done!

I'll help you upvote him too.. I agree @phgnomo did a good job of breaking it down.

Thank you for the vote, especially for the visibility to your audience.
Glad to hear also that you got interested on my writings.
The main thing that attracted me here to steemit is the fact that it is a bit easier to get people to read what you write, than just having a independent blog (wich i also have, but it is only on portuguese.
I am trying to finish the next part today.
Thank you again, and everyone else that gave me this support.

Yea great post indeed. Find out what true wealth is https://steemit.com/true/@askgloria/true-wealth

Just to let you know, i just finished to write another piece about steem economy. Would be nice to hear your opinion.

An awesome post (the one you linked) from a purely economic point of view. Too bad it already paid out. But I will follow you just like Luke did and vote a recent post by you as well. Adding value is what will always bring you good things.

Your comment caught my attention because it mentioned Steemit economy. It's something I have covered too in my own way. If you are interested in reading more, you can do it here. It covers Steemit economy and its currencies in detail.

Thank you for linking your article! More research material.


These guys have really figured this out. You can make money while you sleep, Just signup Download the free miner. There is never a fee. (not to sound like a shill) This is like a money drop! I will post again with details of my profits.

@steemcleaners @lukestokes this account is guilty of comment farming.

Easy....mining. More fun with friends!


These guys have really figured this out. You can make money while you sleep, Just signup Download the free miner. There is never a fee. (not to sound like a shill) This is like a money drop! I will post again with details of my profits.

Financial value is money and money is people, animals don't use or need money only humans do.

pocketsend:[email protected], great explanation of the Steem economy, thank you!

Successful Send of 1000
Sending Account: paul.atreides
Receiving Account: phgnomo
New sending account balance: 2579329
New receiving account balance: 999
Fee: 1
Steem trxid: c93321197f9e2744abb88dc67335467e5979ed1c
Thanks for using POCKET! I am running this confirmer code.

Agree to the Price and Value difference. Its like those cards that work in Food courts. A regular card is of no value until a food court decides to accept it. Yes it got value.
Next week 3 more food chains agreed and decided they will accept the card. Yes the value goes up instantly. Its directly proportional to the acceptance level i feel.

Financial value is arguably the end result of the other value systems that come into play. For example one person may value a token for speculative reasons. Another values it because of the utility the token provides. Others could value a token for sentimental reasons, for the sake of collecting things etc. although I suspect that speculation + utility are well more than 99% of the financial value, with speculation being 90% of those two right now.

The problem when you get away from utilitarian value is that the speculative value can more easily disappear all of a sudden without the utilitarian value to back it up. The utilitarian value ensures that even when the collective belief changes greatly, the people who need the token for its utilitarian purpose will provide a buffer against that change. There are many examples throughout history where value has been purely speculative with no utilitarian basis, or based upon false beliefs, the financial value can disappear entirely into nothing.

Hi @demotruk,

It seems you got a $6.4728 upvote from @demotruk at the last minute before the payout. (15.9h) and this comment is to make everyone aware.

Please follow @abusereports for additional reports of potential reward pool abuse. Thank you.

Interesting perspective. I agree, utility value is kind of the underlying base point for all our beliefs about value in that it tells the most convincing story we can trust others will most likely agree to also. I still don’t think it’s completely objective and unchanging as even our understanding of utility changes as our technology and beliefs change.

How it solved problems to the society determined its value, hi @lukestokes
you might want to check my post too about asset value, thanks. :)

It's true that value comes from what people who are willing to transact give to certain exchanges. Value is in the eye of the beholder.

Great video Luke...

Well said, @lukestokes

I've always liked to debunk the idea of 'intrinsic' value with this little scenario:

Imagine if you were marooned on a desert island via a plane crash - with no real hope of rescue anytime soon - what would be more valuable to you? The 15 gold bricks you happened to find in a treasure chest - or the 15 lbs of potatoes you managed to scrounge from the supplies in the plane wreck? Of course it's the latter.

As you said, value is entirely subjective - it's just a question of the situation one finds themself in. (ie. Supply and demand will always reign superior, no matter what.)

Great analogy. I had potatoes for dinner tonight with lovely melted cheese. I’d defiently pick the potatoes. :)

By the time I hit my teens, I learned to never doubt the delicious taste of a potato with melted cheese! :-)

Thanks for sharing this @lukestokes, really interesting take on financial value.

Over the past week, I've been lucky enough to work alongside a token economics expert with an extremely deep understanding of how to create value based on Utility. His name is James Waugh, and he himself, myself and another colleague actually review an ICO in my latest post on DTube - there might be some interesting concepts that he talks about in it that interest you.

Anyway, to respond to your video - I think that financial value is very much so something that emerges at the moment of transaction, but is based on certain intrinsic microeconomic properties, as well as some macroeconomic ones too.

For example, when reviewing an ICO (which is my job), I always look at the microeconomics of the token - how supply and demand can be balanced through a monetary policy to drive up price is something that really adds to the perceived value of an asset. Then, looking at utility in general is also important - like you said, creating something that people want, that can improve their life if they have it. This is something that I'm really trying to work on in the ICO space, and have been contemplating publishing an article about what I perceive to be tokenomic value.

Thanks again for sharing this Luke, I'd love to talk more about this with you.

Great comment. Couldn’t it also be argued that when you evaluate “utility” you’re really just looking for some reliable metric that will indicate investor sentiment toward financial value? Something can be really useful from a utility perspective, but still highly undervalued financially. At the same time, Ponzi schemes like Bitconnect can be totally useless and provide no real value be still be highly overvalued financially.

All that said, I agree, the ICO space certainly needs more attention on what value they are actually providing to the market virtical they claim to disrupt.

Thanks for the reply - I think that that is the point of utility in my opinion. Like you said with your air example, utility alone is worthless. I am going to be working with some ICOs on their token economics, and the key thing that people don't seem to realise is that the only goal of an ICO regarding its price target is to create a bottle neck system. This is composed of a utility, that is complimented by a sensible yet lucrative supply and demand structure.

To take Bitconnect, for example, it did have value. All ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes have value while the scheme is sustaining itself, as their value is the monetary velocity they create, which coupled with volume creates what I like to call monetary momentum (this will be one of the next big terms for tokens in my opinion, I think I'm the first to have used it). They have a value in the sense that demand keeps on going up, as does its utility (momentum) - this creates a bottleneck, but the issue with schemes like Bitconnect is that when the scheme crashes, so does all of its momentum. If momentum is at 0, when you times momentum by utility value (although assigning a figure to utility is difficult), you essentially get zero.

I think things being overvalued and undervalued is a simple matter of smart economics - it's something that I have had to learn myself, and have not been able to find a book that teaches me it thus far. I have been considering writing a 20-30 page article all about evaluating tokens, how it can be done etc. and using past tokens to showcase to some extent that my methods work. My main issue at the moment is finding the monetary support for such an article - it would take a couple of weeks to write at least, so getting financial support to not work on other projects is difficult, but a way around it that I have been thinking of is to post it in snippets on Steemit - I would really prefer to have it as an e-book and then break it up on Steemit though. Hopefully it could be used as a guideline for ICOs. Let me know what you think, I'm pretty analytically minded so I like to try and apply models to everything, which doesn't always work - I think it does in this case though.

Hey Luke, apologies for the slightly unrelated comment, but I was thinking - I just did a post about the distribution of SP on Steemit, Voting Circles and Whales. I'm thinking of doing a follow up post to tie in negative economic consequences/behavioural economics. It ties in to value and Steemit, what would you think of that? I also gave you a mention in my latest post, I'd appreciate your feedback!

I've been talking with my friend about that today. Image what would happen if whole world use 1 currency., or few of them. What would be their price? That's actually imagination and changeable value. Money is a pyramid and the richest will have more and more, but "these down" less and less.

Only if you play their game. If everyone in the bottom of the pyramid wanted play a different game and create their own tokens of value backed by belief and value they created for each other, how could they be stopped? If the rich provide more value, the rich will gain more.

You're right and that's why are we here I guess.

Great and quality video , you truly explain in context the word financial values. But to my understanding i think financial values are the monetary worth of a assert at a given period of time

Yep. Sounds similar to what I was saying.

Thomas Aquinas spoke of natural vs artificial wealth, where stuff like land and food is the natural and money is artificial. I haven't taken the time to read and digest more than that, but he was a brilliant enough thinker that I want to dig deeper at some point.

That makes sense but only in terms of “natural” wealth is more likely to create financial value (i.e. people wanting to pay for it) over time than most other things becuase we all need food to live and a place to stay.

How do I determine financial value? Well, is anyone envious of what I own? Or am I envious of their property? As a coin collector, it's obvious that I can hold a piece of metal in my hand and admire it. Or be proud that I have a collection that no one else does. But, to me that's not really financial value. I need to be secure in my future and my safety. If my metal coins provide that, that's good. If not, they're worthless and I need to look elsewhere.

Envy is a strange metric, but I think I get what you’re laying down.

value of money and value of time... in my opinion

Time is a resource that will always be scarce.

Thats right ...have heard time is money ...and this is the platform which proves it...

Money is just a form of communication. We are communicating how much value we have for one thing or another.

Have you seen Andreas’ talk about currency as language? It’s pretty good.

Nope but I'll definitely check it out.

Hey Luke trying to actually watch it but it keeps freezing on me. Maybe because a lot of people are trying to watch it at one time. Did you post it anywhere else by any chance? Thanks in advance!

I included an embedding to the YouTube video in the Steemit version of this post.

Thanks a ton. I can watch every other dtube video except this one for some odd reason. I’ll check it out.

I think you are right it is all about context. I am often bamboozled at how the stockmarket swings on a notion or a whim. The same applied to currencies.
The blockchain is such a beautiful revolution that actually offers something concrete in terms of value. It is a crazy worldfor sure, but even crazier given how long we have endured this bizzarre set up.
Great debate.

When I explain crypto currencies to people, I simply start with

Taxation is theft on a scale uncomprehending

Government and Money aren't real, they don't actually exist. They are imaginary concepts

I agree with every word in your well explained video.
Value is a level of appreciation.
It is a subjective feeling; it exists everywhere all the time and it is different for each one.
For example, most people are not satisfied with their salary, they value their contribution more than their employers who think they pay more than deserved.
Financial value is also subjective and it is different from the price.
The price is an objective fact and if something delivers value to someone, he will pay its price (or not if he has not enough funds to cover the price but still accept it as valuable for him).
(The coins and papers in your video don't have an intrinsic value but they are a tool to exchange things such as goods or services).
The value of this awesome platform is in teaching people about Crypto currency while earning money for their contribution to the community.
This means a financial value for some of us, when trading time for money.
Thanks for your article.

Very relevant discussion given the uncertainty of associating price with value in the cryptocurrency space. As these assets go more mainstream, the question will continue to be asked by those looking for opportunities of capital appreciation. Sometimes valuation is determined by the cash flows that the ownership of said assets creates for the owner. For example, bonds pay interest (like bank accounts) and stocks pay dividends. One of the attractive parts of Steem and the platform is that this simulates these types of instruments more than other assets in the cryptocurrency universe.

So true... it's the exactly the same as money as it's just paper.. thanks for your views on financial value. Cool collection of different country coins. I used to go busking so i also have a collection of different country coins.. but you're right they don't have value as they are only valuable in the country they are from. So very good point :)

Thanks! I glad you enjoyed it.

It got me thinking about the whole concept around financial value. It's amazing how financial value is subject to supply and demand dynamics because these dynamics are determined by human beings while transacting. Social proof—that others are doing something—adds a lot to these dynamics. The recent Bitcoin bull run from 8k to almost 20k was a result of increased interest in Bitcoin from the people who had not invested before. Added media attention played a huge role too.

The financial value equivalent to $20k was gained only because of people transacting at that time. It makes so much sense now.

Most of my value is in art...

I've always found it difficult to put a financial value to it though...

Flying blue whale small.jpg

Beautiful. Yeah, I imagine that would be quite difficult. If you offer it for auction, the market will do that for you.

It all begin in the first day of exchange, where value of goods is only determine by two parties. Nowadays value is determine based on supply and demand. However, financial value is not really exist.

Two parties also represent supply and demand.

From my view, there is no such thing as objective, intrinsic financial value and all claims of "utility" value (with regards to finances) are just proxies for what individual actors transacting on a market decide based on current context. Financial value is an emergent property of moment-in-time, voluntary transactions which lead to price discovery.

That is true, but legal tender enjoys special status that other media of exchange do not have. 1) Legal tender is required to pay taxes and fines by the government. 2) Those with accounting obligation are obliged to keep accounts in legal tender. 3) If a creditor does not accept legal tender as repayment of debt, the courts and the police will not help force a debtor to pay.

Anything scarce can instantly be turned into money in a geographical territory by an entity with a monopoly of violence in that territory that starts demanding that scarce thing in exchange for not inflicting violence against other entities in that territory.

The intrinsic value of equity instruments can be assessed using the discounted net value of all future cash flows, for example. Gold or cryptocurrencies have no intrinsic value under the same criteria as equities. Yet, gold has been valued for centuries far above its value as raw material for industry or jewelry. The value of cryptocurrencies is mostly speculative at the moment. But they are likely to have much value in the future as forms of money enabling the Internet of Value, particularly between machines.

From my perspective, taxation is theft and the courts and police are just more monopoly service providers provided by a violent monopoly. That means, to me, the current system is a forced narrative, but still a narrative just the same.

If we talk about future cash flows, cryptocurrency, I think, will have far greater value becuase it’s a better form of money (a better ledger) and people will want it over fiat.

From my perspective, taxation is theft and the courts and police are just more monopoly service providers provided by a violent monopoly. That means, to me, the current system is a forced narrative, but still a narrative just the same.

Not just the same. Ask any libertarian.

If we talk about future cash flows, cryptocurrency, I think, will have far greater value becuase it’s a better form of money (a better ledger) and people will want it over fiat.

That is not what cash flow means in the context of calculating the intrinsic value of an asset. I'm not even sure if the same method is applicable for other types of assets. Commodities like oil have no cash flow in the same sense. You can trade them and profit from them if you sell them for more than you bought them. But equities like properties or company stock have incoming cash flows like rent income or dividends and outgoing cash flows in the case of properties like heating, maintenance, property taxes etc. This is standard economics. The dollar, by the way, has no intrinsic value, either, except for the fact that you need to have it to pay your taxes and fines.

It is a valid question whether or not cryptocurrencies will have higher extrinsic value compared to fiat money, that is, will distributed ledgers secured by cryptography be favored over centralized ledgers in the future. Typically, centralized money ledgers are maintained by banks. Their advantage is that they are more energy efficient than distributed ledgers using cryptography but require trust despite accounting obligation and going through regular audits.

I think distributed ledger technology will become popular in IoT and distributed apps in the future. Dealing with banks is simply too cumbersome for those purposes.

I guess it will be cool when your kids say they do not want those paper dollars anymore because for them it is not valuable anymore. Once they want to get paid in Smartcash they have gotten the idea. At least in this world the value of crypto will rise and they will have seen that.
they will not have those strong links anymore to what the majority of the US have


Have you seen my my post about my son buying SmartCash? We’re getting there. :)

yes, I had read it back then... they are going to be ready for what is coming and a lot of other kids are going to be left behind... I guess these are important lessons you are giving them.

He had bitcoin (got his pocketknife), that rose in price, then he bought smartcash and then that rose and he got his laptop... crypto has a lot of value for him

did your daughter reach her goal of 1000 yet?

I totally agree with what you have said in the video. I think that in general, people want easy lives without too much questioning and too much thinking, and in exchange for that easy way of living we sell our precious time for just a few "tokens of value" (i loved that definition) that just make us able to meet our basic needs, and not even that in many times. We should try to educate ourselves a bit more and this video does that perfectly. Thank you so much for sharing it and help us open the eyes a little bit more. :)

Every asset falls into two categories

  1. Real Assets: land, metals, oil etc...
  2. Financial Instruments: stocks, currencies, bonds etc.

Real assets derive their value from their physical properties while the value of financial instruments is hidden in their contractual property. Fiat money being a financial instrument is an asset to holder while being a liability to the issuing authority. the issuing authority is central bank which represents the society.

those currencies that you hold are not a liability to US society and that is why they have no value there. it is common perception that central banks are fooling everybody by issuing pieces of paper, but that is not true since that piece of paper is like equity of society and very valuable in the society.

My comment is already going very long, so i suggest you search Money Enigma in google to read more on the value perspective i am talking about.

But even the value of real assets is subjective. Gasoline used to be a useless byproduct until combustion engines cane along. I think real assets only have value for the same reason financial assets do: human beings believe they have value and are willing to buy them which gives them financial value via price discovery from functioning markets. If context changes, financial value will change as well not becuase the physical asset changed, but because the belief about the usefulness of the asset changed.

I don’t think fist money is much of a liability anymore with it not being backed by anything, redeemable for anything, or securing anything. With zero (or soon even negative interest rates), where does the liability come from?

I’ll look into money enigma, thanks.

Thanks @lukestokes for this nice tutorial. Money is really just based upon a belief system that we all agree upon and reach a consensus. In that context, as crypto tokens start adding more value into our daily lives (work trade, healthcare, social content, etc.), I think our belief systems will adapt as well to accept the new crypto-token culture. Thanks man!

@lukestokes going by the meaning financial value, it is the worth or value of goods and services.
However per my understanding whosoever is financially strong must do somwthing for society welfare to be valued among the masses. Even if a person earns a lots that he or she can afford any luxiry of life but not doing anything for the uplifment of the society he or she do not deserve to be valued. I would say they are mean enoigh to look after themselves even achieving so much in life.

Maybe, but that also seems like a subjective judgement to me. If someone provides enough value to the world, who is to say they have to continue doing so instead of just living off the value they’ve accumulated?

If a person keep on accumalating enough wealth by anymeans how does that going to help him, atlast he not going everything with them in the graveyard. How does their financial value going to count.??.

unless and untill they don't do anything for the betterment and upliftment of the society. Altleast the people who got benefitted by the betterment can remeber them after the soul depart and value them...so the person get valued when lives and also when not alive.....btw these ar all my personal thought.

I completely agree that value accumulation at the expense of others or simply for the purpose of attaining more is completely fruitless and useless. The point of contention I have with your first comment is that by becoming financially strong, they should have already done something valuable to society (which is why people paid them). I’m not a fan of saying anyone is obligated to do anything for anyone else. That’s the difference between positive and negative rights.

Agree..they have done for the society...but why it become a trend that rich getting more richer and poor getting more poorer...must be the margin have surpases certain limit...which making the gap wider n wider...which is affecting the economy as well...to fill the gap arent the financial strong people need to do more?....

These are great interactions that lead to better thinking.

Regarding financially strong people; Throughout history, we as humans, don’t we sometimes over value or devalue the contribution/opinion of individuals who have acquired more. We give excessive attention to celebrities opinions on a variety of topics they are not qualified to speak on, AT THE SAME TIME we miss the chance to learn from people who have been successful.

This post, these threads are helpful towards “keeping it real”

I think financial value stems from actual worth, or at least an approximation of it. Although not entirely accurate, most of our goods have a value based on how plentiful they are in connection with how necessary they are. Cryptocurrency is like oil, in that it has a low supply, and a high necessity in the future. Water, although high in necessity, is low because of its quantity. Gold, has a high value because of its low quantity.

But isn’t the supply / demand dynamic you're describing just another way of describing how much individuals want something? Your belly lint might be completely unique, but that doesn’t make it financially valuable. :)

But yes, I agree, the amount something is necessary for comfortable living connected with its availability does strongly correlate with how much people believe something is valuable which determines their in-the-moment financial transaction leading to price discovery. Even this, however, is still open to manipulation. Some poor families, for existence, may eat terribly cheap, unhealthy food but still own a massive TV purchased on credit for which they pay interest. That’s not rational but, for them, it’s what they believe is valuable that drives their purchasing decisions.

I agree with the part about the TV, but what can you do? And I think it is sort of a way of describing how much they want something, but the limited supply increases that value. Our wants are endless, but our resources finite.

[Objects] only have value because other people believe in it.

This is a great discussion, Luke. The more I read up on this, and the more videos I watch about it, the more I'm convinced that decentralization is the way to go. It used to be that objects are traded for objects (barter), then it became services traded for objects, then currency was used in place of objects. Now, we're at an era where currency, or at least the current FIAT system, seems antiquated. It's a slow evolution for sure, but I'm happy to see the progress humanity is making in this aspect. It's a great time to live in, and I'm sure that we'll see a major paradigm shift in our lifetime.

I've actually read some different views on this historical change from Matt Ridley (Origin's of Virtue, I think it was) which argued we have always used money whether it was shells, rocks, tally sticks, etc... Money didn't come out of barter. It was used from the beginning. If that's true, it makes a strong case that money is just a ledger and cryptocurrencies are the best ledger technology ever invented.

Looking forward to seeing more of your work!! Upvoted and followed!

Exactly! People talk about gold having some sort of intrinsic value. It only has value because we humans like shiny objects for whatever reason and the fact that it has the scarcity of a limited supply. Scarcity+ demand creates value. Is it intrinsic necessarily? No. But "intrinsic value" really just translates to human demand or desire for it.

In my view something doesn't necessarily have to be limited in supply to be scarce, the demand for it makes it scarce. Imagine a scenario where someone is buying up all the newly issued coins, then you effectively have a limited supply too. Programmable money is going to change everything we think we knew about money, for example the concept that inflation is bad is going to go away, if inflation of a tokens benefits all holders of that token then its not bad, inflation in our current economy is bad because it benefits only a few individuals.

Well said. Something is only “bad” if it decreases the well-being of conscious creatures.

Gold does have a 5000+ year history as money .. something to keep in mind. I think crypto is great in all sorts of ways (crypto-gold being super exciting), but central banks, royalty, multi-generational dynasties, and any "mega buck" type people or institutions all collect and covet gold. It is also used in electronics and all sorts of other applications, silver even moreso. I believe proper portfolio includes both crypto and pm's, for different reasons.

Yes, but do you agree it’s still just a proxy (though an historically reliable one) for what human beings generally decide (in the moment of transaction) is valuable?

I could link to Mark Dice videos where he offers people a bar of silver or a candy bar and they chose the candy bar, but I wont.

Yes,I agree with this. Know the video too - classic.

Actually gold and certain other metals do have intrinsic value based on their use in materials/products/tech...for example gold has special electrical properties and is used in many areas in the electronics & semiconductor industries where it provides superior performance (same goes for platinum)

Yeah I guess that's what I'm trying to say, it has value because we use it and therefore give value to it. It's kindof a semantic point, but my point was just that "intrinsic value" isn't really a thing, although value certainly is.

It has industrial use, sure, which means others have a higher likelyhood of saying, “Yes, that’s valuable to me so I’ll pay X for it.”

To me, it’s still just a proxy for how others will decide financial value in the moment of transaction.

Attention is the only value I can find in this realm :D

do you buy BAT?? lol

I actually include BAT in my very short list of tokens that are actually working to provide utility value right now.

Hey @lukestokes, thanks for this video. Money is a subjective store of value and a shared agreement between parties. You are 100% correct when you say it is a subjective proxy that serves a valuable purpose.

I just wrote a piece about money yesterday that you may receive value from (haha). I talk more about my personal relationship to money and wealth, and how shifting our perspective on what money means to us can go a long way towards achieving financial freedom.

WHOA WAIT...where did you get that bitshares shirt??? :D

From the SteemFest2 hackathon. Someone was giving them out so I jumped at the chance to grab one. :)

I figured you got it for not having any coins on Mt. Gox lol

I was off Mt Gox long before they folded while telling all my friends to run for the exits. Some listened. Some didn’t.

Great video!

I think we are all tricked into believing we must be in system where you must use some form of money. When I say money, I mean numbers. That all comes from our false sense of separation where we don't trust each other, so we sort of need proof our work will be appreciated, so we need proof such as paper/coin money(numbers) or digital money(numbers). Without that, you have only belief that it will be appreciated. Because our appreciation of work is measured in money(numbers) all over the planet and we don't have society where everyone contribute without any need for money, you must give money(numbers) as appreciation for the work. But don't think it has to be that way...

We can build (change our perception) society where we can realize we only need to exchange goods without any need for money. I don't mean only on food, I mean on everything. There is no need for fighting anyone, we already can live in abundance of everything. Just need to trade it with each other and we are all free. I know there will be fear that your work might not be appreciated, so you want proof...and we come back to money again. That is one key reasons I believe money system is based on fear.

Imagine situation where we evolve and realize have infinite trust in each other...will we then need money? I don't think so, because we could built society where you will know your work will be valuated so you will not have need proof such as money(numbers).

You make invention, give it to the whole planet and in the return you can use other goods people make. Same apply for someone who works in some field for example. He produced food and because of it he can use other goods people made. We make circle like that and don't have need for money(numbers) at all. That all can't happen until we spiritually evolve and start to trust each other.

(Definitely topic for few posts)

Interesting video. Very well needed. Ignorance has kept lots of ppl from adoptng cryptocurrency. People believe fiat has value because they don't even know why or how that value was derived. The majority of the people in the world are meerly users /followers and this hasn't worked out quite well for us.

The public distrust of the usual financial system will be followed by investors' panic behavior to attract funds so as to encourage liquidity

in this time people give more value to money more than time and everything else..
this is what i think.. sir @lukestokes

Wow!! i love this post.
Thanks for sharing with us

Thanks for great dtube..i appreciate this cryptocurrency....

If you appreciate this cryptocurrency, why spam it with comments like this?

Great post about financial value. I value Bitcoin more than US currency
Please follow, upvote and comment on my post also, thanks
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Hi Luke,
Long-time no speak. I'd like to chat to you about the possibility of you helping the launch of a DAC on EOS that will be a block-producer, can you contact me on [email protected] to discuss further? Thanks, Will

Money is only a means of exchange. We determine the value it has in relation to the goods or commodity with which we use it to transact.

I dont no where that educated me or confuseded me
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Yeah "Net Worth" has a whole other take...Crypto till I die..Crypto till I f#$k^ng die!

Financial value is the most important for everyone life bcz without finance we can't do anything.

I determined the financial value of this post by giving you 100% upvote. Other than that- financial value is just a belief system. That's why "values" interest me way more than "financial" stuff. Much love bro!

great and informative content @lukestokes, only loss teaches us the value of things and value is determined by supply and demand.The financial value is not really exist.

Excelente vídeo, muy informativo. Gracias por compartir.

good information.

Usually peoples reply that USD tokens value is supported by 1st world US economy and army, and crypto doesn't has such support.

Thanks for the share and your perspective. I'll be posting an article on a similar line soon. Would appreciate your thoughts.

Exactly! People talk about gold .....I think the gold is now in the finish same money.... new gold is bitcoin

This is a great video. More insightful on markets and economics that decide the value of things.

a very useful post for the beginning of steemit and I am very happy with this post for that if any free time stop by to my little account.@lukestokes

I think to give your children money for helping you is a very bad idea but more an american thing, I guess. You should teach your kids that helping is about caring for others. Its called solidarity.

Please don't assume we don't do both. Helping others as part of a community is certainly important. Providing value without any token for who provided what usually ends up not working. Even in gift economies people keep mental ledgers of value exchange. Using a token like money makes everything transparent and that's important. Countries with the most economic freedom often have very high well-being.

Money is not evil.

Money can be a token for keeping track of who has helped the most people.

"Providing value without any token for who provided what usually ends up not working."
It needs people with high moral standards to make it work. Also tokens do not work when the culture of a society is corrupted. Money than will be made by creating negative value -- for example selling drugs, creating weapons of mass destruction, or speculating on commodities like wheat -- that harms society as a whole. First must be moral values and these only originate from understanding the concept of solidarity -- a tokenization alienates further from this concept, that is why I think it is not good to teach kids in this way. Especially when this money represents a corrupted society. Sorry for being so harsh, but this is my opinion.

I understand, but I don't agree with your opinions based on my understanding of history, economics (a proxy for human psychology), and human well-being.

I don't see "selling drugs" as evil. All chemicals we put in our body (including food) could be called "drugs". It's a false evil pushed by nation state governments for control. Some drugs which are "legal" in the medical community and terribly dangerous (such as opioids) while others are safe by considered schedule 1 narcotics (which is just silly).

Governments create weapons of mass destruction, not free markets.

As for speculating on commodities, that's an interesting example. I see the value of creating open pricing markets to stabilize price and risk. What I also see is manipulated currency through fiat and fractional reserve lending along with a corrupt investor system in wall street that takes what could be beneficial for farmers and customers and creates massively distorted markets which are harmful. Governments try to "regulate" this by with regulatory capture and revolving door politics, this becomes just another layer of control backed by a monopoly on violent force.

From my perspective, you're looking at the systems caused by governments and the myth of authority and blaming them on core concepts like money. If money was allowed to operate as originally intended (a token of value), it would not case all the harm you're describing.

"Governments create weapons of mass destruction, not free markets."
See, it is not about government vs. free market. The concept of a free market is utopian as socialism is, it never existed. And if it would exist, you would not want it because it would mean anarchy, and you and your family would not go through anarchy unharmed (under the condition that people are selfish). There is a reason why governments exist. Therefore, I cannot understand this government vs. free market argument. It is for me more a reflection of the deep conditioning in american culture, that the market is somehting religious that does not fail and societal structures -- as governments -- are seen as something unnatural.
Weapons of mass destruction are build by private companies. If there would not be a US-government that would buy these weapons there would be other governments. There would be always a government, even if it calls itself a corporation. Because the directors boards of corporations are nothing else as small governments -- and not even democratic ones.
Further, I do not see selling drugs as evil -- because for me there is no good or evil. I see it as a waste of human potential. When you think in economic terms, selling drugs reduces the overall welfare, because people get ruined and all the capital invested in them evaporates.
"From my perspective, you're looking at the systems caused by governments"
No. The corrupted system we are living in is caused by normal market mechanisms -- emergence of oligopolies and monopolies. These can only be smashed by governments (or better said, by the society, aggregating their power to destroy parasitic structures that decrease the overall welfare).
I was not blaming anything on money. I only said that money acts as a mirror. If kids do not understand, what the mirror reflects, it is not good for the society. This mirror these days reflect no societal value anymore, that was the point. Overall the concept of solidarity is more important, because teaching solidarity leads to a society that has higher moral standards and will not corrupt in the way a society will, that is too much focused on tokens and loses the concept behind them.

I hope you get a chance to read through my post on anarchy which I linked to in my previous comment. I have a completely different world view from you about that word. If you're interested in understanding more about this beyond what I've written there, I can provide multiple books, lectures, etc, but my hunch is that would all be a bit much for you at this point.

Maybe instead we'll just continue building a voluntary society without violent government and when it's done you can see it for yourself to believe it. :)

Thank you very much, you are very kind! :-)
"I have a completely different world view from you about that word." I know, I come from a complete different point of view than the steemit community originates from. I have lived in a socialist state and it was way better than everything that capitalist society have ever reached yet. This is why I have not also a different idea about what free market economies are but also what anarchy is. For me the manifestation of anarcho capitalism or properiterian anarchism is the first step in a transformation of american society to become fascist. There were also concepts of anarcho-nationalism in Italy in the 1920s which transformed into fascism. The problem with american thinking is the same as every culture goes through, before groundbreaking paradigm shifts. Cultures increase their levels of ideological radicalization. This ideological radicalization is driven by the ideas that are the foundations of the thinking. As Germany has to go through this hurtfull process, also the US have to go through this.

There are many lies about how real existing socialism really was, therefore I am always a bit sceptical about some anarcho capitalist approaches -- also because capitalism and anarchy contradict each other. Because to extract capital from others (in the way capital was defined by Marx) is a complete contradiction to anarchy. However, I will always support the competition of ideas -- and perhaps I am wrong because lack of knowledge as we all are. Have a great day!

Which country did you live in, if you don't mind me asking? Often the meme that gets spread around is people building rafts out of trash to try and escape socialist countries (and the dictator regimes that are usually created by them). Your points are accurate about the dangers of nationalism and the concerns over the spread of fascism. Anarchy means "without rulers" and real anarcho-capitalists I interact with want nothing to do with nationalism or anything that would create a ruler. Fascism, from my understanding, requires the use of force provided by the government monopoly on force. Modern anarcho capitalists respect the NAP (non-aggression principle) and reject all actions which would violate it. A simple 8 minute video explains why property is valid and an extension of owning myself in the past.

I really appreciate how you are open to opposing ideas. I think that is a beautiful thing. I've spent many, many hours in the ancom vs. ancap Facebook debate group to form my current views, but I too am open to adjusting them or being flat out wrong.

Hey @lukestokes, I really like this post explaining the value of money and crypto and I'm nominating you for the 7 Day Black and White Challenge (#sevendaybnwchallenge) to see some more of your creative posts. I hope you enjoy! See below:

Hello @lukestokes, we @steempeninsula extend our appreciation to you for your support.

We hope that you see this as our way of saying Thank you.

Time is the most important value. Whatever helps you spend your time doing what you love is financial value in my opinion.

Excellent Video explanation Luke.

One of the biggest obstacles in convincing humans to join Steemit is convincing them how to turn their SBD into cash if they want. Like you said, they have faith in the dollar. So they stick to it.

But one thing my father always said in regards to people who gather dollars is..

When it comes to survival who do you think is going to win, a guy with a gold coin, or a guy with a gun? No one is really worried about survival right now but there could come a day..

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I post good quality memes, to entertain The Whole Community, check my timeline!!!

Hmmm, interesting take on it. :) For check out my channel It's still young and growing.

I post good quality memes, to entertain The Whole Community, check my timeline!!!

Too much education in one blog post, they'll shut this channel down.

Very helpfull post. Thanks for share

Wow you super

I measure something financial value at how much beer and racecar parts i can buy with it. Lol.

Hahah. Whatever works for you. :)

Currencies have a perceptive value. No tangible meaning. If the government suddenly want to overturn a currency you lose. Gold, silver etc have tangible real value. The government can ban every currency but always your gold and jewels will have value. Like in Cyprus where the banks took most of peoples money from the banks. Just like that you lose your money and they gave crappy shares in the bank of Cyprus which are even more crappy. But those who had tangible assets wouldn’t have been affected. It’s a shame that the world is ran on perceptive value of paper and polymer.

What about executive order 6102? The tangible “real” value of precious metals is still subjective, IMO. It has a really good historical correlation with what people perceive is valuable and are willing to exchange for, but I think people will continue to value cryptocurrencies more becuase then can be used online and there’s is no third-party custodial risk for storage or when traveling between countries.

Great post to share with people that say bitcoin cant have value cause its digital and not backed by anything. Even tho its backed by worlds most powerful super computer.

Great post and nice material for thought. It actually shows how much something which we take for granted and use every day is so artificial and prone to misuse.

FRN notes are not money because money has intrinsic value IIRC : ) Nice to see you again Luke

That is why some people are afraid of crypto-currency. They don't realize that even physical currency can gain and lose its value just the same.

Great! Thought provoking video! I believe the key is right where you mention that some organizations understand the concept of value being relative, but they don't teach it so they rule among people who ignore this vital piece information!

hello sir i need you help please help me.

The information you provide helps us a lot. I would like to thank you for posting a tip.
thnx for shearing
I am always following you

Very helpful theory. Thanks man

Hi @lukestokes ! Its true what you say that the financial value is something subjective at the moment and place of purchase, and it was great to hear about its comparison towards utility value, which is the intrinsec value of a certain technology, product or service.

Thanks for sharing this economic perspective!

Regards, @gold84

Thanks for reading. I think it's important we all answer these questions for ourselves.

Thanks for this valuable post sharing... i appreciate cryptocurrency...

The guy is looking for by force upvote. Nice post @lukestokes