River of Snakes: thought experiment
Below is a common fable up for discussion. I have adjusted the story a little to make it more interesting in terms of self-reflection.
Sam was in love with Chris.
Chris lived on the shore of a river which separated the two lovers.
The river was teeming with poisonous snakes.
Sam wanted to cross the river to be with Chris but unfortunately, the bridge had been washed out. Sam went to ask Pat, the owner of a riverboat to take them across. Pat said “I would be glad to if you would consent to having sex prior to the trip across.” Sam refused and went to Alex to explain the situation. Alex wanted nothing to do with it.
Sam felt that the only solution to getting to Chris was to accept Pats terms. After having sex with Sam, Pat fulfilled the promise.
Once united with Sam and after hearing about what they did to get across the river, Chris cast aside Sam with disdain. Broken-hearted by the rejection, Sam turned to Alex and told them what had happened.
Alex, having sympathy for Sam, sought out Chris and brutally beat them. Sam was overjoyed at the sight of Chris getting beaten and laughed at their misfortune.
Discussion:
How would you rank the behavior of each of the 4 characters and what is the justification?
(IE. Who had the worst behaviour and why?)
How would you describe the characters?
Thinking about the characteristics of the characters can demonstrate our own biases or perspectives.
If anyone is willing to engage in a discussion then I will certainly provide my own interpretations and perspectives as well.
Its understandable for Chris to cast him away, especially since its never made clear if Chris even loved Sam in the first place.
Pat's case is also easily understandable. You cant expect getting something for nothing, and while the price is shocking, thats what it is.
Alex comes in at second worst. A friend should have done a favor for a friend, but that's not why I blame him. He took in only Sam's side of the story, which do to his evident psychopathic nature, I assume was full of lies and half truths. While this is the most violent act in the story, I wont label him the worst because his intent was honorable.
Sam is a monster from my perspective. I may be reading too much into what isn't there, but from his twisted enjoyment I assume there was some intent to get alex to behave that way.
Assumimg there was no trickery or half truths then alex and sam are tied. Since it is clear that the outcome is what Sam wanted.
Very interesting perspective. Great evaluation. Just to go a bit deeper:
Could Sams emotional experience of having a broken heart justify his actions of being happy with the fact that Chris was beaten?
What if I added that all of the characters in the story are 13 years old. Does that change anything?
Was age or any other physical feature of the characters considered when you thought about this scenario?
Justify? Certainly not, could it be a reason instead of psychopathy... I'm really not sure, I cant see someone who was actually in love turn around and enjoy seeing them brutally beaten. It seems to me that Chris was seen as a toy that wasn't going to play along.
At first I was going to simply say no, but then I thought about if Pat was the only non 13 year old and that would change things. However reguardless of Pat's age he is still coaxing a 13 year old into sex. Society is pretty iffy on this but generally it is accepted when the age is the same, never occured to me to think about the act of buying and selling it though.
Considering they have about the same life experience, I still say it doesn't have an impact on the rankings. Was a pretty interesting thought though, would love to hear yours on the subject.
Yeah for me my perceptions of each individual changes when certain aspects of their character change. When the young age is considered we may have a different understanding of behavior. The prefrontal cortex which is the part of the brain that is involved with things like reasoning and impulse control (among many other things), continues to develop in a person until the age of 25. Alex beating Chris may be viewed as a developmental issue, a sign of immaturity and a lack of impulse control due cognitive skills that are not fully developed.
Last Question: How did you perceive each character in terms of gender? Who was male and who was female?
Interesting, I suppose you are correct in your reasoning. In that case what rankings would you give the kids?
Hah, I actually thought they were all dudes and only now realize the names were gender neutral.
That is weird
Ha yeah exactly.
I think that the story can show us our own biases and also that certain characteristics can change our perceptions (ie. age, or sex of the characters).
In terms of gender, you saw all of the characters as male. For me, their gender tended to shift between male and female. For some reason my mind tried to make each relationship a heterosexual one. That's my "straight" bias coming through I guess.
For instance, Sam started out as male, but Chris wanting sex as payment seemed like something a man would desire, so Chris became the male and Sam became the female.
Its a bit strange - the story is vague and many details do not exist so we tend to fill in the gaps and make up our own story, viewing it through the lens of our own set of biases.
In terms of behavior, I agreed that Alex's behavior was the worst. Beating someone is hard to excuse. Conflict should be dealt with, with words in my opinion. I thought that Pat was exploiting the situation and taking advantage of Sam. I wasn't a fan of that. Though, they made an offer and followed through with it. That was also a positive for me. I sympathized with Sam a little or understood them in my own way. For me I saw their behavior as his/her ego being hurt and so they sought to repair their damaged self by through enjoyment of anothers pain. I think that it is fairly common for people to get enjoyment out of others suffering when they themselves are emotionally hurt.
Its a cluster of a situation that can be interpreted a hundred ways. I just thought it was interesting how it can point out our own biases and give us something to self reflect on.
Thanks for playing the game :)
Hmm my perspectives in the matter probably came from the fact that I do not personally know a female Chris or Sam.
I do know a female Alex and a few pats, but the actions of the ones in the story would have me believe them to be male anyway.
I had an idea that I would be evaluating the characters actions and maybe subconsiously put them on the same levels. I didnt assume anything about their age either other then "adult". Since it was about introspection, maybe I just put them all on my level.
Or maybe I just had dudes on my mind. Hard to say, I did think it strange, but wrote it off as 2017.
I suppose there have been times when I might feel the same. Though they weren't the same situation and I'm not one to put myself in that situation, so I can't understand her feelings.
At the very least I find it strange that one can flip from "in love" to "enjoying your pain" by simply being rejected.
There is much debate about what is love and how it is different from lust. If there is a difference I think Sam definitely shows characteristics of the latter.
Thanks for having the game, I found it very interesting.
Yeah those are good points as well. Sams love seems to be conditional for sure or maybe lustful as you point out. I agree that it is odd going from being in love to getting pleasure out of their suffering.
the river of snakes was a manifestation of the 4 peoples lust and violence or basically ludicrous thoughts that dwell deep within he 49 layers of the slumbering subconsciousness ( also known as the manifested "i"s of the ego)as well or otherwise known as their seven sins multiplied seven times within(the multiplication is a whole other parallel).......now moving forward......as the choices come they have the choice moment or opportunity to transform the sinning manifestation of though into a virtue and cut off the manifested head of the snake.....however with each choice whatever road is chosen will bring them into a parallel of one of two available universes...as we see from the story the lords of karma swiftly enacted the spirited actions of their own choices ....only ones to blame for what has occurred would be themselves if their is a blame to be placed ..indeed Much LoVe to All
as well if they were living in the garden of eden the river would be crystal clear with beautiful rocks on the bottom and calm without snakes...........food for thought
Interesting background information. Thanks for sharing.
The story is also widely used as a tool to self reflect on how we perceive people and situations.
Care to give it a go and answer the discussion questions?
Its a cluster F--- of a situation so there really is no right or wrong answer here.
How do you perceive the individuals? Their physical characteristics and their behavior?
look deep within in depth comprehension my friend
I see. Sorry I think I misunderstood your comment. I didn't realize that this was your analysis - more of a spiritual/philosophical approach. I thought it was a comment regarding the background of the original fable. Thanks for sharing.
Well Captured Photo.