RE: Defend Yourself Against @GrumpyCat
This makes a lot of sense. Also remember that grumpy buys votes himself. Not buying votes is unfortunately not a sure fire way to not get down voted. He seems much more concerned with late voting.
It's definitely his right to self vote, however that was the last big fight here and now it's perfectly acceptable so what's next? Hell transisto even used to run a bot that down voted self votes and people applauded it.
The one thing that has caused so much of an uproar with grumpy is an obvious whale intentionally hurting minnows. No matter the reason that looks bad anywhere. It makes smaller fish really scared to be here also. This platform cannot thrive on fear.
Themarkymark has a great point, most large whales did not get there by powering up earnings, many of them simply mined their coin or bought it ridiculously cheap.
Powering up is very important but for some its simply a luxury. Also, If people would rather make trouble and drama then work together then the long term of steemit won't matter anyway. Who in their right mind would want to join/stay on a platform claiming freedom and decentralization that is clearly dictated monarchy and economic social hierarchy?
In a system entirely based on currency it is crazy to think that people won't try to find creative ways to make it.
If steemit creators are actually behind grumpy these tactics are even more unwarranted. If people like @Dan or other creators would have come with a proposal or even a rule for that matter they would've gotten a much better and more positive response from basically anyone here. Hell they created the place, why wouldn't people listen to them?
The senseless harming of innocent small fish is simply not required.
Ever since I came here people have been bitching about other people doing this or that wrong... saying that this or that will ruin steemit if not kept in check...
The only way to keep slaves when you are vastly out numbered by them is to keep them arguing and fighting each other.
The only thing that will surely ruin steemit the way it has ruined basically every nation and almost any good thing on this planet is intolerance. Working together is the only way to ensure steemits long term future.
Interesting, I brought votes twice to make sure my two public service announcements were seen by as many people as possible.
I guess I'll forever regret it.
This has nothing to do with whale vs minnows. I'm even sad to say I've been discriminating against "whales" by hitting them stronger.
Yeah. Horrible idea.
In the end, it was brought on by the same mentality as 6th day votes. You wanted change to come too soon instead of taking more time and spreading around information longer, you were in a hurry and needed change to happen too soon. Just like people that use the 6th day bots. No matter what, in the end, you're just another one of them.
We want to resist you without losing our respect...But if you lie, we will no longer be able to respect you.
A simple analysis of blockchain gives with how much you hit minnows and how much you hit whales.
Anyone who codes this script can see that you have hit the minnows much more than whales.
Unlike politics, there are no lies in the blockchain.
@The-Resistance
Why would I flag minnows more than whales?
I gave no fuck to check account size before flagging.
This is the @GrumpyCat we know and resist.
A bully, a tyrannt that doesn't give a fuck who he is hurting.
We were afraid that you have started a false PR by saying :
We don't want you to present yourself like a kind of Robin-Hood, hitting "whales" harder and stripping them to the reward pool for all peoples benefit.
Because this is not you...
@the-resistance
I was responding to
OK, you don't care about who you downvote but let me show you a mirror.
Since you have started you have made a total downvote of -6334%
Your current strength is 50 SBD for 100% downvote. It was x2 at the beginning, so I take average of 75 SBD.
This means you stripped 75 x 63,34 =4750,5 SBD from earned rewards.
The worst part is, you have used 5619% of your downvote power on minnows.
You have stolen 4214,25 SBD from minnows.
This is 89% of your total downvotes.
Now, do you see why we call you a bully and We Resist?
@The-Resistance
Conclusion: More minnows than whales use shit-ass bidbots.
WE ARE THE RESISTANCE!
@GrumpyCat
Your self upvote is flagged by The-Resistance team using the WE-RESIST bot.
We will be resisting with a team, stronger each day, unless you stop downvoting innocent people.
To your tyranny WE-RESIST
The Resistance
Discord: https://discord.gg/qMWCbWR
Nice numbers.
I personally wish that there were no upvote bots. The way I look at it is, it double or triple gouges the reward pool. I personally don't use them, because a for mentioned reason. I understand why people do use them, and I have no ill will against them. I just wish that they didn't exist.
I'm to new to know all the ins and outs of all of this so I try not to take sides. Please try to be careful when down voting people. :) Also please don't hate me for commenting this. I do believe that you are doing what you feel is best. Have a lovely day.
Another way to look at it is that whales are going to claim the most from the reward pool no matter what. Voting bots are a way that they allow minnows access to what they normally wouldn't. 2 years ago, the reward pool was available to everyone one. There weren't whales yet, so it was more open. Now that there are whales, they claim the most. Also, there's inflation on top of that. Minnows don't have a chance at the reward pool. Bots allow the the chance people had 2 years ago. Here's another way to look at it
Whale A and whale B could just self-vote and take money from the pool that way. Instead, they delegate SP to a voting bot and minnows are allowed access to it. Further, the voting bot is backed by a community of curators that blacklist bad content and promote good content the way whales A and B wouldn't have before. Which do you think is better now? Bots or no bots?
Without bots it's just self-voting whales like @grumpycat abusing the pool. With bots, we have some people allowing minnows access to the pool and curation communities.
You could say, why not the whales build curation communities? Do you see @grumpycat building any communities? LOL
I just did a post on this subject Here. If you are interested in my thoughts on the matter it would cover much more than I am able to write now. Sadly It took me two nights to complete it. Because I kept getting distracted with comments lol. :)
I see your point but I just disagree, the cost to the reward pool is far to high, leaving little for everyone else. Have a read and let me know what you think on it, or don't. Either way have a lovely day. It's one in the morning here and I've just spent the last few hours completing it.
Right. Inflation is a factor. However, rewards were more available 2 years ago. That's a fact. Inflation + whales may impact why rewards are so low right now; however, bots do return awards comparable to what people were getting 2 years ago. That's also a fact.
Regardless of why rewards are low, bots aren't the problem. They bring rewards back to users. You can call it pay-to-play, but it's the same as what happens in any economy. Early-adopters become the big winners and they grow large. There are a lot of examples in history of this happening. They can hoard it making things worse (classism) or they can recirculate.
Just consider what things would be like without bots for a second. Suppose all the bots were gone tomorrow. Do you think everyone suddenly has more of the reward pool? Nope. The whales still have it. Here's what changes.
Sorry it's late I don't have the time to respond in more detail but here is a quick synapses of my response.
1-Spam sucks, but i don't read it so it doesn't bother me. (If I was a whale that would not change)
2-They can do whatever they want. This would be good because it would give minnows an opportunity to communicate with the whales, the non spammers just might catch their eye and give them some upvotes.
3-Spam should be downvoted.
4-Only spammers would get downvoted, and I would hope that they would leave because I'd rather not have them on the site. Because they are no good spammers.
5-(This is actually what's happening now, because so many spammers and trash posters are buying upvotes.) The spammers need to go, after this it's only trash, poor, moderate, and quality posters left. Trash posters would be the next to go. Once things got so grim that the poor to moderate posters were to begin to leave, the price of steem would begin to fall. Whales accounts would start to shrink. They would begin to panic and start paying people to curate or do it themselves in hopes to not lose their investment.
6- Most of the spam and trash would be gone now and the whales would be forced to either sell of their steem or find human curators. What's the point of self upvotes if the value of Steem in dropping.
7-If the whales have not learned their lesson by now they are not living in elysium, they have lost their entire investment because they allowed the site to go to poo. most would sell off their steem for pennies. Then those of us who want to make a good go at the sight will buy it for next to nothing and we will try to build it back into greatness. If it's not to late.
The way the bots work now the whales get at least 125% of what they auto vote with their SP(through the money people pay and curation). This just allows the system to spam and trash post on. Removing the bots would force them to invest in human curation or risk losing everything. That is why I like human curation, it doesn't reward trash. It's also why I see danger in "Pay to Play." I would rather not have a system that allows the whales to just sit back and make money without putting back into the community. Steemit is what gives Steem value, once it no longer generates value, the crypto is worthless.
I don't think you got where I was going with spam and whale downvotes. I meant the whales would downvote anything whether it was spam or not because of the memo spamming.
Yeah, that's not true. The bots actually are responsible for curation communities. Those would go away. You'd actually have less curation because most people would curate solo instead of through a group vetting process. This would lead to less curation, not more.
Without which, whales would just self-vote and "sit back and make money ..."
I think you don't trust what I'm saying, but it's not speculation. A world without bots is what we used to have. I don't have to speculate on what it would be like without bots. Steemit has already been there.
As I said before, bots are a symptom, not a problem. It's simply what has come out naturally from an inflated economy and a reward pool run by whales. If you get rid of bots, it doesn't get rid of the problem. It may get worse because it's the community's answer to the problem.
What person would start flagging someone for making a nice or thought provoking comment on their post? It's simple don't send unsolicited stuff to people and you won't get flagged.
Curation is merely a fancy world for upvoting something. So without votes people would suddenly stop upvoting? I have a hard time believing that that's what you meant, but it is what you are saying. People would just vote on what they like, and since the trending page wouldn't be full of rubbish aside possible from whale self/circle upvotes people would easly be able to see what other people were voting on if they wanted to jump on the bandwagon.
Have you looked at the trending pages lately? I've seen rubbish that was getting $900 because they paid like 15 upvote bots to upvote them. It wasn't plagiarized, but at most the post was worth $5-10 and that's being super generous. This is happening all the time if that was to go away I'd be happy.
There have been whales since the beginning of Steemit. All of the "big whales" like ned, dan, Johl and the likes have been here since early 2016. If they wanted to flag some small whale investor for self voting then they would and many of them have at times. But you are allowed to vote yourself, how is self upvoting any different than paying for someone to vote for you? Just turns out others are able to flag you for the self upvote or paid vote. or really any other reason.
The truth of the situation is many Investors bought steem because like jerry bansfield did YT videos on how you can invest in steem and just self upvote( I just watched the video last night. This brought in a lot of money, raising the value of steem. So if the real whales started downvoting the investors heavily it would stop others from investing. So to compensate for this voting bots were introduced. But where exactly does the voting bot's SP come from? The same would be self upvoters.
As My post said I'm not apposed to the use of bots, They can be very useful. but I am apposed to AUTO upvote bots. Because of all the reasons I mentioned. That being said I don't think they are going anywhere and If the day came that I decided that I would want to use them, I would probably just use the ones that certain investors don't Flag.
I've seen some of your posts and I don't think that you post garbage and I'm sorry that you got flagged on them. There are other voting bots that don't get you flagged maybe you should just use those. Or fight your fight. It's a free Steemit, that comes with some very good and very negative consequences. I just believe that it would be better if it was human curation(up and down votes) I don't think we will convinces each other differently. But thanks for the convo. Feel free to respond. To be frank I don't care that you or anyone uses auto upvote bots. I just really don't like garbage being so highly rewarded. (I do not think that you post garbage, FYI.)
Did you actually read my post? I sorta laid my case out. I would like to see human curated upvote platforms, where you pay a fee to be read and they decided if and what it's worth. It would just feel better. I don't think I'm the only one who would appreciate something like that.
To clarify:
Both of the above factors affect the amount of rewards users get and has increased over 2 years creating our current economy. That and the whales.
Again, bot's may not be the solution, but they're not the problem either. They're a symptom.
To Clarify:
My biggest issue is that it would appear that the biggest "winners" of paid auto upvote bots are the owners and SP donators. It just bothers me when people view them as some sort of community service. It's just not. It's about money.
As My original comment stated.
When the operators of these machines take in near the value of your upvote and then get curation rewards ontop of it. That results in a double dip, with them getting the larger portion. Plus it's a bit like crack once you have that first taste nothing just seems as good without it. I wish there was a better way for people to get more notoriety and rewards for quality posts, I just personally would rather not give these rich guys any more money.
If others want to, go hard.
In your mind it may not. However that is not what the public sees, or the minnows that you have hurt.
I have seen you going after some whales as of lately. Not sure why that makes you sad but it was nice to see you flagging abusers for a change.
We are working diligently to get the abusers taken care of, especially from using bots. You really should work with us. We've made great strides. With your help we could go even further.
At which point did GrumpyCompliance claim to give different treatment to different size of accounts?
Learn to read.
I never said it did. I merely said that you are an obvious whale that is obviously hurting tons of clearly undeserving minnows, which you are definitely doing. No two ways about that.
You created the difference you speak of in your head after taking offense to a statement that upset you. It's easy when you are upset to misread things.
If there is a connection between size of account and your idea of compliance it would likely be that almost all bot users are minnows and/or smaller fish.
If you could get over your anger long enough to actually understand the words people have attempted to speak to/about you, I'm sure many things would become quite clear. Just read the words, without all the spite and hatred.
Stop unnecessarily fighting everyone for gods sake and actually help us help steemit.
You have only yourself to blame for anyone "getting hurt" or "losing money".
Your bot isn't even limited to 6th day, it's 6 day 8 hours with a your bidding window at 2.4 hours that's 6 day 10.4 hours.
Giving anyone on Steem only 13 hours to find and flag the abuse you upvote.
Human curators have to sleep, that gives them about 2h to find and flag your bullshit.
WE ARE THE RESISTANCE!
@GrumpyCat
Your self upvote is flagged by The-Resistance team using the WE-RESIST bot.
We will be resisting with a team, stronger each day, unless you stop downvoting innocent people.
To your tyranny WE-RESIST
The Resistance
Discord: https://discord.gg/qMWCbWR
On 28 Feb (the day before @grumpycat made this comment) @grumpycat upvoted himself 9 times for a total of $451.57. In the month of February, he upvoted himself for $22095.89 on 285 posts. A number of these upvotes came after the posts were 3.5 days old. His 9 most recent self-votes were less than 3.5 days old.
I would upvote for visibility, but it kind of makes me feel dirty. Hopefully everybody sees this. :-)
Dan has left steemit long ago and has publicly said it is shit and he will build it better on EOS, so why not fuck it up for everyone?
haha, ya never know I guess.