Off the beaten path (for me): Let's talk Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti, Swamp Devil, etc... [Cryptozoology]
I am fascinated by mysterious things. I love finding mysteries in history, mysteries in science, mysteries in music, mysteries in art, basically... I like mysterious topics. I have liked mysterious topics for as long as I can recall. I remember hearing UFO, Ghost, and Bigfoot stories as a very young kid, and I'd often check out such books from libraries when I was in elementary school.
Now some people may have their skeptic brain kick in and immediately call me a quack, or an idiot for even considering such things...
I've often wondered why...
Source: giphy.com
You see science is great at PROVING THINGS if they can be measured. It is not particularly useful for proving or disproving things it cannot measure. In fact, there is no clause or step in the scientific method that states because something has not been measured it does not exist. This would be foolish as there are many observable phenomena that we have not managed to properly measure and they are purely hypothesis (aka speculation based upon observation) at this point.
So there is a common mistake people make. They say something SCIENTIFICALLY does not exist based upon lack of measurement, repeatable observation, etc. Yet this is NOT scientific. Science is great for PROVING things that we can measure.
What is my point? Lack of measurement or proof does NOT instantly mean something does not exist. It also does not mean it does exist. It is a hypothesis/speculation based upon observation.
Source: giphy.com
The next step of the scientific method is to determine something testable to prove the hypothesis. Testable should also be repeatable by others. Yet that requires a way to measure, or capture the information. Many topics cannot proceed to this stage simply due to us not yet having a way to measure a thing. That scientifically does not mean they do not exist. It also does not mean they exist.
Scientists embrace hypothetical concepts like Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Gravity Waves, etc as being plausible before they have been measured. This is usually because they help balance out the equations. If the equations don't balance then that means there is something wrong with them. Theoretical Physicists will hypothesize solutions that can explain the oddities in an equation. If we're lucky we'll eventually measure these things and prove their existence. This has happened in the past and I have zero doubt it will continue to happen.
So why is their resistance to hypothesis surrounding UFOs, Bigfoot, Ghosts, etc? There are many recorded observations of all of these things from very credible witnesses. Yet these are things that people will gladly shield their mind and say with certainty "they don't exist" without actually having any proof to back that statement. Why are there certain topics that we throw reason right out the door when considering? Should not we give equal treatment to all ideas, and hypothesis?
Bigfoot
I wanted to talk about bigfoot as that is a topic that I see some common skeptical statements about.
"If it is real, then where are the bodies?"
The Mountain Gorilla was a legend reported by tribesmen until 1902. They are illusive and hard to track. They are also near impossible to find the bodies of. A German Officer, Captain Robert von Beringe discovered them in 1902 if we are talking about modern times and repeatable actions. The tribesmen knew of them far before that.
Finding bodies is not always as obvious as people think. It is also not uncommon for finding them to be difficult when dealing with some large primates.
Gorillas are interesting as we've found other Gorilla species since then that are not of the Mountain Gorilla variety. Did these things not exist until we observed them? Are people attempting to apply the Schrodinger's Cat hypothesis to cryptozoological animals?
Source: giphy.com
Silly TV Shows
"With all the silly TV shows hunting for bigfoot you think we would have found one by now if they were real..."
Watch one of those shows. When a person is supposedly on a SOLO night out investigating you'll get all of these amazing camera angles from far away, from above, from inside caves as the person crawls into it, etc. It becomes apparent if you stop to consider these things that these are not SOLO. The person is not holding a camera, they may have a camera it goes to some times, but there are always shots outside of what that person can do themselves with them. They may have sound booms and other things. The obvious thing is they are far from solo.
Source: CliffBarackman.com
When you have a team of them running around giving you the impression there are only 2 to 4 people there you'll see tons of camera shots from different angles. Again, they have an entire camera crew with them.
Then they also decide they need to do stupid howls EVERY single investigation they do. In the witness testimonies it is VERY rare to hear that the witness was howling to try to get a response. Furthermore, so many of the responses to that could easily be attributed to Coyote or other animals. Perhaps not all, but the doubt and veracity is still there.
Yet, if you think a big camera crew stomping through the woods, worried about whether they got a good angle or good shot is going to catch an intelligent animal then your impression/understanding of intelligence is far different from my own.
How Intelligent are they?
If these things exist how intelligent are they? I believe we make some assumptions. We assume because they are hairy that they are inferior to man. Somehow people think the presence of extensive body hair has something to do with brain capacity and ability.
For all we know these animals (if they exist) may be very intelligent. They may not choose to approach the world as we do, but in some areas they may be more intelligent than us. We make a lot of assumptions.
What if they don't exist?
It has not been proven they exist. So it is possible they don't exist. When I say PROVEN I mean some replicable way to prove it. This is required to go beyond the hypothesis stage. This does not mean they exist, and it doesn't mean they don't exist. Neither state has been proven. There is enough observational and physical data that exists that it is actually probable that in many of these cases there is something to them.
To prove it we will need something observable, and repeat observable. This could be capturing one, or it could be finding a habitat that consistently reveals observational moments that allows many independent observers to verify it on different occasions.
Source: Uncyclopedia.com
This has not happened. IT also is not likely to happen with some large camera crew, and howling yahoos trudging around.
Personal Opinion
I believe there is something to them. I believe that something does exist. I've been hearing stories about them since the early 70s. My mother and her family would travel to Oregon in the 60s, and she remembers their family being turned away from a camping spot with broken picnic tables by Forest Rangers who stated that the park was closed and that there were recent bigfoot sightings. So I heard about this from my mother in the early 70s. That fascinated me right along with my fascination for dinosaurs and sharks.
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Source: youtube
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Source: Affinity Magazine
Long before this reality show movement I collected some strange stories from remote parts of Colorado that I lived in. There seemed to be some indicators something was out there. I lived in one of the least populated counties in the United States with heavy forestation, and within a short distance from multiple 14,000+ foot mountain peaks... rolling canyons, mountains, and massive amounts of forests with tons of Elk, Fish, Deer, Bear, etc.
Source: SummitPost
I'd have a few personal encounters with both bear, and Mountain lions (aka Cougar) growing up. Some of them precariously dangerous.
I never encountered a BIGFOOT, but I had some stories from friends that they couldn't explain, and one person did think they saw something like that running across a meadow high in the mountains as they were driving along a mountain road up there.
Do I believe they exist? Personally, I believe there is something there. I do believe that many of the accounts could be false identification of something else, but some of them I believe may be legit.
So how would we catch them?
The same way you hunt any animal, intelligent, or otherwise. Attempt to mask the scent of man. Most animals have a good sense of smell. The average soap covered man/woman is pretty obvious to animals from a distance. If they smoke or do activities that also cause other scents to cling to them then this is even more of an issue.
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Source: Field & Stream
Don't act as an alien to the environment. Act like you belong there, rather than simply being a visitor. If the animals think you belong there then they are less likely to be skittish around you.
Keep notes, journals, and be meticulous on how you proceed. Minimize the size of your group, and be consistent. Listen to the activities witnesses were doing, and try to do similar things. Don't bring your own bias and preconceived ideas in and start howling and expect that to work.
Source: LoveThisPic
These are intelligent animals, and with the popularity of the reality shows we have people howling in the woods all over the place. As an intelligent animal that'd tell me these days where NOT to go. Furthermore, there are so many howling yahoos if you get a response to your howls there is no guarantee it is not another group of howling yahoos howling back at you.
Open Mind
I keep an open mind and don't close it simply because I DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE something. Truth and Facts really could care less what I want or don't want.
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I feel your interest in the topic. Stuff like the "reappearing" of coelacanth indicates that not all the BigFoot, Dragon and Megalodon stuff is pure fiction.
However I find most of "these theories" have weak arguments like sightings and shaky pictures. Talking about it I hate these Discovery Channel Mystery Mockumentary bs! I just feel like to many people might believe its for real.
I always wanted to get into H.P. Lovecraft. I can defienetly understand your love for powerful, mystical creatures. Shin Gojira <3
Bloop :)
Why do you bloop me!? D:
Ahh I member the bloob now
H.P. Lovecraft is actually my favorite horror author. His trick was to write things that skirted the edge of possibility so they made you wonder... :) Good stuff.
do have a recommendation which of the stories to read first as a Lovecraft Virgin? I only know some of the beings from a great youtube series that explained the Cthulhu Mythos
when I was a kid, I ate these subjects up.
Do you remember a book by a husband/wife team (Blum???) that combined UFO and ghost stories? IIRC, there was also a chapter on "derro". I still remember some of those stories, and it has been fun in later life to track down some of those and see the debunking/additional info on these.
I think my favorite was the story of the Sutton family blasting away at aliens; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly%E2%80%93Hopkinsville_encounter
I still surf r/paranormal when my brain needs unwinding!
Moving back to your first point about "proving" the unprovable, here is a post, that, while focused on the political side of life, stills discusses "getting at ... the frustrating human attempt to fully explain a situation we don't have enough hard facts for a clear judgement on."
https://steemit.com/analysis/@stevescoins/understanding-what-we-can-t-see-conspiracy-debunking-and-absence-of-evidence-part-one
(hmmm, think I am going to repost those two posts soon)
Heh... I don't think I encountered the UFO + Ghost combination.
I "remember" Ralph and Judy Blum(e) as the authors, but I'll be derned if I can find them as authors these days.
But the bookstores were full of these kinds of books in the 70's ;>
Mom, Mom, can I have THAT one too?
I remember those books though I didn't read any of them. I remember seeing them on shelves. I read the Hardy Boys while other people read Judy Blum.
that's the Judy Blum that wrote all the kids' books ;) Probably why I have the name of the husband/wife authors misremembered. I was in elementary school in the 70s, and about half the the reader texts had that Blum's stories in them
I think the kid's fiction I read was mostly the 3 investigators...but what I mostly read was the UFO/ghost/Bigfoot stuff.
I got focused on natsec in high school tho; if we lived in a better world, I'd be a "paranormal" researcher
I am getting buzzed by work, I'll give your response a more thorough look and response here soon. :)
So what if there is a bigfoot? People would see him from the internet and that's it, the legendary bigfoot is there. Wow. More cat videos!
I find some other cryptozoology creatures way more interesting, like Megalodon or Mokele Mbembe. If one of those would be found, that would be way more interesting, but surely they won't be found because Megalodon is extinct and Mokele Mbembe was a floating tree or an elephant mistaken for some kind of swamp dinosaur.
I personally am interested in ALL of the above. :) Anything mysterious is like a personal adventure to be part of. Many of them may prove to be false, but a big part of the fun is the seeking.
My wife encountered a cryptid I don't see people talking about and it seems pretty rare as we heard only a few limited tales about it around the area she encountered it. It was a really big bat and it was on a mountain pass in Colorado not too far from the Utah border. By Big... it was standing over some roadkill deer and was probably a good 3 feet tall as my wife's vehicle came up to it and the head lights were on it long enough for it to do a kind of hissing action, and then fly away. It startled her, but she encountered a few other people that had seen it in that area over the years, though I've never actually encountered other people talking about it on the internet. :)
La chupacabra or disfigured coyote. Loch Ness monster or a log. Cryptozoology is interesting, but it can easily be classified as fiction. It is good to attract tourists and scare kids. Wouldn't it be fun though if one of the creatures actually gets discovered :)
My grandma, who is now 96 years old said that she saw a Dragon once, her definition of a Dragon was a big snake. That big bat sure sounds interesting, but as always it could be anything really.
It is also worth noting what you likely already know. We have found animals that were supposedly extinct before. It is rare, but it has happened.
That doesn't mean that this justifies all claims. That was not my goal here. My goal was to point out how people immediately will shut down their mind on certain subjects when it has neither been proven or disproven, though there are some compelling testimonies and evidence collection that should at least make it so we have an open mind. There is also a lot of fraud as well. Yet we're not cooking food, so a spoiled ingredient doesn't necessarily spoil the entire thing. ;)
I'm thinking finding more of those scary ones that can eat you :)
Thought extinct Coelacanths are an interesting find. That fish truly looks like it came from an ancient history.