why is that?? we want something cool unique and creative from a designer or artist here on steemit to keep the steemit collaboration going strong with the theme of the project. How is this bad??
Not trying to be rude, just want to spread some light on this issue, as a creative yourself, I'm sure you could see how this type of work exploits artists.
okay ! um wow! fair enough. but im not holding a gun over anyones head here to do this contest, it is open to designers, moms dads, grocery store clerks and bus drivers, bascially anyone on steemit with a creative itch that wants to support not only steemit but steemit music and artists in a collaborative project. The idea is layed out clear and in detail so it can be understood exactly what is going on.
there is no body trying to exploit or rip anyone off.
This is an invitation to join, share your art or design skills, collaborate communicate join in and mingle through art and possibly win 100 dollars worth of steem in the process, plus an excuse for any steemian to blog there entry and earn... i say to you good sir.. WTF lol chill yourself down.. have a tea and some chocolate.... you either need to enjoy some life or go burn some energy of your own instead of not meaning to be rude on my post.
@malicered will tell you the same thing, professional designers don't do contests, it hurts our industry. If you want something design related done, you should be prepared with a vision, know exactly what you want, and have a set budget.
That's like living and designing in a vacuum. You're talking about the perfect client, which is nothing like reality.
I'm not a designer, I'm a site consultant and writer. I've worked with many small startups. The truth of the matter is that the majority of people in the early stages of their business development have no idea what their long term vision is. Most have an abstract notion of what they need and lack the proper jargon to adequately explain that to notion to a professional. At the startup stage, they typically need and want to work with someone who has the capacity to help them realize their abstraction. They don't care about how many years someone's designed, how much school cost, or whether or not they're using the proper jargon to convey their ideas. They care about getting off the ground, about seeing some kind of progress on turning their abstraction into reality, and about not being bankrupted before they get started.
Contests can be a great way for novice designers (writers, musicians, etc) to get a feel for following a client's instructions; for working within the confines of another's idea; for practicing their chosen skill set; for working on a deadline; for learning how to compete against others; for building confidence; for developing their style (voice, etc); and, for having fun on a project.
Novices are not the only ones who participate in contests.
Plenty of professionals participate. The difference is that professionals tend to limit themselves to high paying contests and/or grant programs. Failure to recognize award programs as contests does not negate the fact that there are many competitions that interest professionals. Including those competitions shared by AIGA competitions and awards which all tend to have associated fees.
In short, if you don't want to participate, then don't.
This aggression will not stand, man.
"This will not stand, you know? This aggression will not stand, man." The Dude
Before this gets out of hand, I respect @malicered very much and would never go out of my way to disrespect him. He's shown me the same respect back. If y'all both feel that contests like this are a waste of time, I understand that. But that is your opinion, and being a decent person will be to respect others opinions while holding your own. So in conclusion. Let's all respect each other hopefully and if you don't agree with something you can always just ignore it. I feel this is the best mature thing we can all agree on. Sorry @malicered if you don't like stuff like this. I only mentioned to help out.
thanks for coming in as the peace maker on this. gotta throw you down a full power vote on that. I am feeling all second guessy now and bad! Was on a nice train of thought putting this together and wasnt trying to make it out like people are gonna get taken advantage of. Its possible my post was not clear enough on the situation. Respects to all
To be honest I kinda regret bringing this up now, I was just trying to point out an issue in the creative world, but it looks like I've just caused a lot of unpleasantness. Sorry everyone.
Naw man, like I said all opinions matter. We all understand how hard it is to be self sufficient being an artist. I'm still in the works of trying to convince @malicered to let me hire him, but I'm not on that level yet ;)
In no way, shape or form are design contests justifyable.
I rather openly give my work out for free then even be associated with one.
No offense or disrespect to any parties involved in this discussion.
You guys know what I'm doing right now? I'm working on a design. I'm going full design mode, working on a combination of typography and illustrative concepts. I have spent roughly 5 hours on this piece, and have presented many drafts. Do you know how much I'm actually going to be paid? 25.00 SBD. This is roughly 10% of what I would have charged outside of steemit, but I'm doing it now to help someone else out, and to help get my name out here.
Designers: If you're reading this, instead of working for free, you could go help someone out instead for roughly a small portion of what you would have charged. It beats showing people that things like this work.
Contest Hosts: Have you even attempted to scout out some commission quotes? You'd be surprised at how helpful some of these designers are. I know I look out for other steemians.
I'd agree 100% with you if Bonnie were a major- (or even mid-) label producer. She's not, puts out fine work anyway, and promotes lots of us with no name in the biz with her upvote. YOU certainly DON'T have to contribute a single pixel , nor does anyone else. So I don't particularly agree AT ALL, because this is a REAL shot for someone with NO relevant CV, NO portfolio, not even any experience.
The no-name nobody who comes up with the killer meme, doodle, or pre-Raphaelite masterpiece will probably truly value the whopping 50 STEEM less than the community's appreciation (I would, but I won't be designing cover art, even though I might submit a track).
in all honesty I really cant believe you guys have come in and done this to someones post. Trying to throw people off of the contest. She comes in offering a hundred dollars worth of steem and hopes to get what? half a dozen entries or so for a collaborative steemit project and you guys just shit all over it.
Honestly, I didn't mean to derail. I was mentioned in this post like 5 times, so I felt obligated to share my opinion. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or ruin a contest. I understand your frustration and know your feelings are in the right place. I respect all of your opinions, and if you want me to, will redact my earlier comment in order for you to continue. Ruining something for someone would really make me feel low. And honestly, I just want to build a good reputation, not a bad one. I apologize if I upset anyone!
Its all good @malicered ! I was a bit thrown back, but I see no harm was ment here. In reflection i appreciate your opinions and @granturismo89 . This was merely an outreach for steemit considering the project itself was about steemit artists of all types not just popular ones or professionals. When having album artwork done for myself I have several professional designers I go to, this was a different type of situation. A creative cover from a steemit member at any level of experience is just the charm I was looking for in presenting this collection of talented multi genre tunes from the community. All is forgiven here and I also apologize for getting a little zesty there! with love and good vibes to you
Thanks, I feel better. I wasn't trying to derail your contest, in my mind, I was trying to help your brand and image.
Sorry for the bad vibes. I see you are an admin of the steemit music discord, I just joined and started sharing my ideas I have planned for the musician/creative community here. Look forward to working with you as friends. I will redact my comments as well if you want.
I am a little annoyed with this as you can tell im sure. No ill will to you my friend but I think your way off base here. If a professional designer wants to join in on this design contest thats fantastic, we are looking for open talent here. You are over complicating a simple situation, and I think mis understanding the entire point of steemit to many people here.
great thing about steemit is artists get compensation with upvotes and opportunity to post original content. Its my job as the director of this contest to make sure i save my voting power up to give back to the entries with voting power on there entry comment and entry post, and also include them in the official winners post, promoting there work and time. I have been in the music industry for near 10 years now as an independent artist collaborating with other artists from all over the place. Its people coming in and trying to place standardized rules on things like this that bother me the most, you stick a negative fork in the creative process.
I have more faith in peoples discernment to decide if something is right for them or not.
Again I have no mind to try and exploit or take advantage of anyone.
I understand how your suggestion may have worked for @jonny-clearwater and thats awesome. He thought about it and decided he wanted something more specific and your way of doing it worked for him. Its much more broad from this angle im reaching out as a whole, laying down my terms, I have a long track record of successful collaborations that benefit everyone involved. The microscope as if im shady or something though damn! unplugs a good mood.
What's my vote if not the only thing of value I CAN use to compensate work I respect? Maybe I can hustle an SBD to buy a download, maybe even enough to buy the compilation but that would be side-channel and a significant stretch.
Wait, I'm sorry, I may have mis understood you. I thought you were part of this labels management. I've submitted songs to comps before and I've always gotten a cut of the sales, and I make sure to pay any artist that preforms at any one of my shows is paid fairly.
Ah, the glories of limited bandwidth communication!! I wasn't offended at all, even if I might have sounded a little sarcastic with the previous comment, and the comment just above dead serious- you can look at my wallet, and think about the fact that currently represents a measurable, substantial portion of my current liquid assets.
EVERYTHING I find good about Steemit stands at threat when something like guild authority (just like government or Church) wins out over an individual's endeavor when that doesn't threaten anyone else. When this happens, it is not an example of the pursuit of excellence.
why is that?? we want something cool unique and creative from a designer or artist here on steemit to keep the steemit collaboration going strong with the theme of the project. How is this bad??
Its a great idea and should be expected for the project
You get what you pay for, no serious designer will do this type of work.
http://www.nospec.com/
http://www.aiga.org/position-spec-work/
Not trying to be rude, just want to spread some light on this issue, as a creative yourself, I'm sure you could see how this type of work exploits artists.
okay ! um wow! fair enough. but im not holding a gun over anyones head here to do this contest, it is open to designers, moms dads, grocery store clerks and bus drivers, bascially anyone on steemit with a creative itch that wants to support not only steemit but steemit music and artists in a collaborative project. The idea is layed out clear and in detail so it can be understood exactly what is going on.
there is no body trying to exploit or rip anyone off.
This is an invitation to join, share your art or design skills, collaborate communicate join in and mingle through art and possibly win 100 dollars worth of steem in the process, plus an excuse for any steemian to blog there entry and earn... i say to you good sir.. WTF lol chill yourself down.. have a tea and some chocolate.... you either need to enjoy some life or go burn some energy of your own instead of not meaning to be rude on my post.
I don't see why you would say that, but I'm willing to understand if you explain why.
@malicered will tell you the same thing, professional designers don't do contests, it hurts our industry. If you want something design related done, you should be prepared with a vision, know exactly what you want, and have a set budget.
http://www.nospec.com/
I am a member of AIGA, so this issue is very close to my heart.
That's like living and designing in a vacuum. You're talking about the perfect client, which is nothing like reality.
I'm not a designer, I'm a site consultant and writer. I've worked with many small startups. The truth of the matter is that the majority of people in the early stages of their business development have no idea what their long term vision is. Most have an abstract notion of what they need and lack the proper jargon to adequately explain that to notion to a professional. At the startup stage, they typically need and want to work with someone who has the capacity to help them realize their abstraction. They don't care about how many years someone's designed, how much school cost, or whether or not they're using the proper jargon to convey their ideas. They care about getting off the ground, about seeing some kind of progress on turning their abstraction into reality, and about not being bankrupted before they get started.
Contests can be a great way for novice designers (writers, musicians, etc) to get a feel for following a client's instructions; for working within the confines of another's idea; for practicing their chosen skill set; for working on a deadline; for learning how to compete against others; for building confidence; for developing their style (voice, etc); and, for having fun on a project.
Novices are not the only ones who participate in contests.
Plenty of professionals participate. The difference is that professionals tend to limit themselves to high paying contests and/or grant programs. Failure to recognize award programs as contests does not negate the fact that there are many competitions that interest professionals. Including those competitions shared by AIGA competitions and awards which all tend to have associated fees.
In short, if you don't want to participate, then don't.
This aggression will not stand, man.
"This will not stand, you know? This aggression will not stand, man." The Dude
Take it easy, Dudes
Follow me on Twitter: @cosmo_crator :)-~
Before this gets out of hand, I respect @malicered very much and would never go out of my way to disrespect him. He's shown me the same respect back. If y'all both feel that contests like this are a waste of time, I understand that. But that is your opinion, and being a decent person will be to respect others opinions while holding your own. So in conclusion. Let's all respect each other hopefully and if you don't agree with something you can always just ignore it. I feel this is the best mature thing we can all agree on. Sorry @malicered if you don't like stuff like this. I only mentioned to help out.
thanks for coming in as the peace maker on this. gotta throw you down a full power vote on that. I am feeling all second guessy now and bad! Was on a nice train of thought putting this together and wasnt trying to make it out like people are gonna get taken advantage of. Its possible my post was not clear enough on the situation. Respects to all
That's me, I'm an aquarius after all! Thanks for that vote!
To be honest I kinda regret bringing this up now, I was just trying to point out an issue in the creative world, but it looks like I've just caused a lot of unpleasantness. Sorry everyone.
Naw man, like I said all opinions matter. We all understand how hard it is to be self sufficient being an artist. I'm still in the works of trying to convince @malicered to let me hire him, but I'm not on that level yet ;)
maybe i should consider getting a government permit before posting a contest like this and make sure its up to your standards
In no way, shape or form are design contests justifyable.
I rather openly give my work out for free then even be associated with one.
No offense or disrespect to any parties involved in this discussion.
You guys know what I'm doing right now? I'm working on a design. I'm going full design mode, working on a combination of typography and illustrative concepts. I have spent roughly 5 hours on this piece, and have presented many drafts. Do you know how much I'm actually going to be paid? 25.00 SBD. This is roughly 10% of what I would have charged outside of steemit, but I'm doing it now to help someone else out, and to help get my name out here.
Designers: If you're reading this, instead of working for free, you could go help someone out instead for roughly a small portion of what you would have charged. It beats showing people that things like this work.
Contest Hosts: Have you even attempted to scout out some commission quotes? You'd be surprised at how helpful some of these designers are. I know I look out for other steemians.
https://steemit.com/blog/@malicered/woah-hang-on-there-design-contests-are-not-good-if-you-re-a-startup-you-need-to-read-this
Sorry guys, going to have to agree with @granturismo89 on this one.
Sorry if I offended anyone!
I'd agree 100% with you if Bonnie were a major- (or even mid-) label producer. She's not, puts out fine work anyway, and promotes lots of us with no name in the biz with her upvote. YOU certainly DON'T have to contribute a single pixel , nor does anyone else. So I don't particularly agree AT ALL, because this is a REAL shot for someone with NO relevant CV, NO portfolio, not even any experience.
The no-name nobody who comes up with the killer meme, doodle, or pre-Raphaelite masterpiece will probably truly value the whopping 50 STEEM less than the community's appreciation (I would, but I won't be designing cover art, even though I might submit a track).
in all honesty I really cant believe you guys have come in and done this to someones post. Trying to throw people off of the contest. She comes in offering a hundred dollars worth of steem and hopes to get what? half a dozen entries or so for a collaborative steemit project and you guys just shit all over it.
:(
Honestly, I didn't mean to derail. I was mentioned in this post like 5 times, so I felt obligated to share my opinion. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or ruin a contest. I understand your frustration and know your feelings are in the right place. I respect all of your opinions, and if you want me to, will redact my earlier comment in order for you to continue. Ruining something for someone would really make me feel low. And honestly, I just want to build a good reputation, not a bad one. I apologize if I upset anyone!
Its all good @malicered ! I was a bit thrown back, but I see no harm was ment here. In reflection i appreciate your opinions and @granturismo89 . This was merely an outreach for steemit considering the project itself was about steemit artists of all types not just popular ones or professionals. When having album artwork done for myself I have several professional designers I go to, this was a different type of situation. A creative cover from a steemit member at any level of experience is just the charm I was looking for in presenting this collection of talented multi genre tunes from the community. All is forgiven here and I also apologize for getting a little zesty there! with love and good vibes to you
Thanks, I feel better. I wasn't trying to derail your contest, in my mind, I was trying to help your brand and image.
Sorry for the bad vibes. I see you are an admin of the steemit music discord, I just joined and started sharing my ideas I have planned for the musician/creative community here. Look forward to working with you as friends. I will redact my comments as well if you want.
From https://steemit.com/art/@jonny-clearwater/new-steemit-series-needs-a-logo-25sbd-or-post-split-payment#@malicered/re-jonny-clearwater-re-malicered-re-jonny-clearwater-new-steemit-series-needs-a-logo-25sbd-or-post-split-payment-20170622t145329233z
The poster actually stopped the contest and started accepting portfolios instead.
I am a little annoyed with this as you can tell im sure. No ill will to you my friend but I think your way off base here. If a professional designer wants to join in on this design contest thats fantastic, we are looking for open talent here. You are over complicating a simple situation, and I think mis understanding the entire point of steemit to many people here.
There is always someone who has to jump in and try to ruin the fun or kill the mojo. shake it off
That's good to know non-professionals need not apply, then.
Perhaps I should apply the same standards to music submissions, keep the riff-raff out?
You should be compensating artists for their submissions in some way. Are you not?
great thing about steemit is artists get compensation with upvotes and opportunity to post original content. Its my job as the director of this contest to make sure i save my voting power up to give back to the entries with voting power on there entry comment and entry post, and also include them in the official winners post, promoting there work and time. I have been in the music industry for near 10 years now as an independent artist collaborating with other artists from all over the place. Its people coming in and trying to place standardized rules on things like this that bother me the most, you stick a negative fork in the creative process.
I have more faith in peoples discernment to decide if something is right for them or not.
Again I have no mind to try and exploit or take advantage of anyone.
I understand how your suggestion may have worked for @jonny-clearwater and thats awesome. He thought about it and decided he wanted something more specific and your way of doing it worked for him. Its much more broad from this angle im reaching out as a whole, laying down my terms, I have a long track record of successful collaborations that benefit everyone involved. The microscope as if im shady or something though damn! unplugs a good mood.
What's my vote if not the only thing of value I CAN use to compensate work I respect? Maybe I can hustle an SBD to buy a download, maybe even enough to buy the compilation but that would be side-channel and a significant stretch.
Wait, I'm sorry, I may have mis understood you. I thought you were part of this labels management. I've submitted songs to comps before and I've always gotten a cut of the sales, and I make sure to pay any artist that preforms at any one of my shows is paid fairly.
Ah, the glories of limited bandwidth communication!! I wasn't offended at all, even if I might have sounded a little sarcastic with the previous comment, and the comment just above dead serious- you can look at my wallet, and think about the fact that currently represents a measurable, substantial portion of my current liquid assets.
EVERYTHING I find good about Steemit stands at threat when something like guild authority (just like government or Church) wins out over an individual's endeavor when that doesn't threaten anyone else. When this happens, it is not an example of the pursuit of excellence.
Sure did.
I should have thought it through more before I posted it.
@malicered is now working on my logo