thank you @battleaxe. I've often found over the years when I'm seeking people to fill positions, the best leaders are found in the group who just has their head down getting the job done. They know what it is like to do the job and can have empathy for others.

I remember one fellow I approached to take the position of 2nd Vice who was at first determined he wasn't officer material. I'd been watching him and everything I saw had me believing he was a whole lot more capable than he was willing to see. I managed to get him to accept cause I really needed someone in the spot.

He gained enough confidence that he moved up to 1st Vice the following year, held that position for 2 years and then moved to President. He did a great job.