Quality Is Important, But Let's Be Real

in #community5 years ago

Over a week ago, I wrote about some of my post-HF21 impressions. Though it wasn't necessarily the main point to be made, I did make this statement:

Instead of quality content, can we call it something that means "stuff I like," because that's more of what we're talking about.

It was made in reference to the fact that downvotes have been used for many reasons on STEEM, one of which being for lack of quality. With the advent of some free downvotes a day, the idea of quality content is pushing its way back to the forefront of popular STEEM thought.

seal-893797_1280.png

Personally, I'm all for quality content. I think the more of it, the better. Unfortunately, I think people are saying quality when they really mean what I said above: "What I like." Or how @whatsup put in the comments of said post:

I like to say, interesting.

Quality is and always will be subjective. What may be of high quality today, won't be months or years from now, or at least it won't be as appreciated as much as it was to begin with. Why? Because someone or something comes along and improves upon it. Technology is fast and furious in the area of improving quality. If you looked back at the quality of life just 50 years ago to now, let alone a hundred, or 150 years ago, most of us would say it's improved (though in some ways it has gone the opposite direction).

Quality is a moving target. Like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder, and no matter how much one person might find something of quality, someone else will either hate it, or find it meh.

There's a reason for this:

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

It's why garage sales have a place (at least in the United States), aside from the fact that you can get stuff on the cheap. Value changes based on immediate needs. That seldom used exercise equipment that once cost over a thousand dollars to purchase new ends up being resold, if lucky, for $100, if not purchased at all and then either hauled off to a thrift store or the scrap yard, at the seller's time and expense.

So, as I said before, and I'm saying again, we need to get away from the term quality, and use something else that is more representative of what we really mean, be that "Stuff I like," or "Things I find interesting," or something else.

In my mind, there's a simple way to know if you're voting on quality, rather than on what you like.

  • The post is legible.

  • Most words are spelled correctly and properly used. If a video, the language it's in is properly used.

  • The format is easy to read and to follow.

  • The post makes its arguments well. Is it well reasoned.

  • It presents well. Sentences flow from one to the next, or if spoken, the same.

  • If citing quotes or studies, etc., it is well-sourced.

  • It holds the readers or viewers attention throughout—it doesn't read like a telephone directory.

  • It shows a higher or elevated form of thinking that is uncommon to the topic or subject matter.

  • It provides real expert instruction or advice based on the writer's own ample personal knowledge and experience.

  • The post demonstrates a skill or talent that is recognizably better than most.

I think I'll stop there. I know there's more that could be included, but the point is, if you find yourself upvoting or downvoting posts based on whether those types of things exist, you might actually be doing so based on a possible definition of quality.

However, if you find yourself upvoting based on the following, it can't really be called for reasons of quality only, or even firstly:

  • The post is by someone who gets a lot of high upvotes, thus, better curation rewards.

  • The post is by someone who is a witness or community leader or someone well liked or well-thought of.

  • The content of the post is of interest, regardless of thoroughness of the topic, presentation, grammar, etc.

  • The content presents a worldview that is close or inline with the reader's point of view.

  • The poster votes on the reader's posts, so reciprocity is in order.

  • Autovoting the same amount every time without checking periodically to see if the author is still meeting the criteria of quality.

  • Voting the same amount on all posts in order to spread the vote around and use as much of the voting power as possible.

So, what do you think? Which way are you voting? Note that I have not placed any judgment yet on the second list, good, bad or indifferent, other than to point out, it's not because of quality only, or even quality first. There are other reasons that are coming into play.

Want to know what I think about the second way of voting? As far as I'm concerned, it's okay. STEEM is predominately used as a blogging/social media platform. Blogging and social media aren't all about quality. They're about expression. They're about being social. The communal experience. Finding the likeminded. Leveraging experience. Entertainment. Feeling. Belonging.

I will never be the meme king, but I can't deny people find value in them. There's a quality to value ratio that will ultimately be enforced on anything considered a low effort post, but that's a topic for another day.

So, let's get real, shall we? We're upvoting and downvoting based on all kinds of criteria, and the lesser of it is quality.

On a side note—If I can find a post that I disagree with as far as its conclusions are concerned, but I can't knock it for its impeccable use of grammar, flow, reason, citations, presentation and format, that is probably the epitome of quality for me. I don't have to like the topic, the person, or the conclusions to see the quality in the post. And I might just find myself rethinking my personal thoughts on the matter.

As @scarletreaper recently put it in a post about this topic:

I don't always feel the need to have "quality" posts filling my brain.

They then go on to list several posters, the likes of which, I would say provide content I like, and for the most part, the posts achieve a high enough level of quality, too.

There are reasons why we come to STEEM, and my hope is, it's not to see what's on trending, even in the NewSTEEM. I would like to think we're heading into our feeds, or into the tags, or sticking with the sub-communities and tribes that have formed and will continue to form. That's because we're regularly and actively following and pursing that kind of content on a conscious level, not just passively having it pushed to us and then complaining we can't find anything to read or view of quality.

At the end of my earlier post, I said this:

Maybe we all just need to declare what we like to read, so we can try some content targeting.

For me, a post on that topic is forthcoming. I basically have to rethink my approach on curation, anyway, so this will help me as much as it might anyone else.

First, I had to get this topic out of the way. And I will probably readdress it, because as is the case with most things deeply imbedded in a culture, it's hard to root out, even when everyone can more or less agree that it should be.

To be clear, I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for and achieve some definition of quality on our posts. By and large, higher effort should be rewarded more than lower effort, but even that depends on a lot of factors. Word length and time spent does not always equate to quality, but they also certainly can. That said, finding a photo on the internet, slapping into a post and titling it "I Like" won't equate to quality ever, and shouldn't, either.

(Though someone is bound to get something out of it, just the same.)

However, let's not kid ourselves. Much more than quality is coming into play when we up or down vote, and the sooner the phrase, "There's a lack of quality posts on STEEM," is no longer uttered while we're really looking for stuff we like, the better things will be for us, as creators and curators, and the social side of STEEM as a whole.

Image source—Pixabay

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There's way too much 'I downvote because I disagree' going around...
Also, downvoting based only on the use of bots, regardless whether it is a good post or not.... I don't know what to think of that.

Basically, I can find myself in most points of your first list

The post is legible.
Most words are spelled correctly and properly used. If a video, the language it's in is properly used.
The format is easy to read and to follow.
The post makes its arguments well.
Is it well reasoned.It presents well. Sentences flow from one to the next, or if spoken, the same.
If citing quotes or studies, etc., it is well-sourced.
It holds the readers or viewers attention throughout—it doesn't read like a telephone directory.

I must admit I don't really care about any elevated form of thinking, real expertise (what's that?) or specific talents/skills.

This may be because I'm not capable of any of those things myself. I'm not an expert on anything, have no specific skills or talents....

I can really enjoy a genuine post about 'a day in the life'... without having to jump through too many hoops.

!trdo

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Hey, @simplymike.

Well, good on you for considering the 'quality' points. I do, too, which is why I end up with a lot of the same authors. Because they're also writing posts that interest me. I need to get back to foraying out and picking up newer users, but it gets kind of taxing to do that since they keep coming and going in waves. If they'd stick around for the duration, that would be great. :)

Same here.
To be honest, my search for new users has halted a bit since HF21.
I have the 'created' feed open during the day (European time), and to be honest, it shows crap, crap and even more crap... all day long. I guess the action happens when I'm asleep.
So for now, I'm autovoting the same old authors, and have Gina notifications set on a bunch of others... but most of them are also active when i'm off to bed.

During European day time, this isn't really the mot interesting place to be, lol.

To have a little peace of mind, I delegated to the @curangel project, hoping that some of the rewards are handed out to smaller accounts in the end.

I got to start again, but it's hard to get motivated when you have to dig through such a lot of brainless Dlike posts and stuff all day long :0/

I keep running into Spanish and other languages when I go look at the new. I speak Spanish, so I guess I could go ahead and try some of those, but without a reference point as to who to start with, I don't know if I really want to spend a lot of time there when I could just get straight into English.

Well, I've been primarily sticking to my feed, but I would like to get back out into the tags a little bit. I think to some extent, I'm a little picky. :) That's not to say there aren't plenty of descent posts, it just means I don't find it all interesting.

I haven't delegated to any projects. I'm kind of wondering if I ever will. I'm glad people can find people or projects they can trust. At this point I don't really have as much time as I did to go and look into things if I even wanted to.

To listen to the audio version of this article click on the play image.

Brought to you by @tts. If you find it useful please consider upvoting this reply.

I kind of look at most of the things in your two list. I do mostly vote on things I like, then on some things that make me think even when I do not want to think, but sometimes I like those post and want to see them continue. The third thing is I also vote on things I don't like political post, drama post, flag post, and other post, Why? Simple, I like variety,

I would find steem block chain to be rather boring if it was just a parrot of what I like. I need to see different things, I need to know there are different thinking people out there. Voting/curating is a very difficult animal to contain and to control. Not all my votes are a curation effort on my part, some of them yes, but most of them, just votes for things I like and votes to keep different things alive.

Hey, @bashadow.

It seems to me that how you're voting is how a lot of people do it. I still can't seem to 'maximize' my curations rewards, so that's certainly not how I'm doing it. And while I'm probably more of a stickler than others when it comes to things in the first list, I also tend to read about subjects I like, or want to know more about, then I do the quality posts. Otherwise, I'd be following curie more closely, since they're curation standards have been the highest of the curation trail efforts I've noted to date.

The newer ones, we'll have to see. As I said, though, I'm not looking just for quality. I'm looking for what I like, too.

I think sometimes that to many people are looking at it all from an investment perspective, a how much can I make, will this post go viral, will this one be flagged? I like the consumerism vote method that I use. Yeah I have some big names if I see the post go by on my feed boom, I'll vote it, but I use my feed for finding things I like. I tried following some of the "BIG" names, but they resteemed or posted crap I was not really interested in, When my feed runs dry, I look through the hot tab and find things sometimes the new tab. One thing I don't do is make it a job, if it is time to go to bed and I have spare votes left from the day, it is the hot tab, and vote casting to be using my votes, it is when I take on the investor mentality of voting, just before bed, because I hate my vote bucket being full while I sleep and doing no good for anyone.

Certainly a lot of ways to go about this, and I can't say even at this stage in my time here that there's any one way to actually do it. Some are obviously going to be better than others depending on the intent, but whatever.

I've tried working through the new tab. It's amazing how many non-English speaking posts are there. :) I haven't really gone to the hot section, though. Might have to see what I can find.

Mostly, I'm in my feed, and I'm adjusting who I follow a little more now than I have been. I don't follow a whole lot of people, though, so I really need to pick that up a bit.

I know all about following people who then begin to resteem stuff. Some are better at it than others, but it's kind of like resteem everything, or resteem nothing a lot of the times. I wish people as a whole would resteem more—I think it's a very underutilized tool—but some folks think that the reason why you're following them is because you like what they like. Well, to an extent, that's true, but it's mostly because you like what they write, not what they like.

I've given up on trying to keep my voting power down. Which is weird, since nowadays each upvote takes more of it, anyway. Having less time than ever before, having an upvote that is worth less than it had been in over a year, and knowing I'm throwing my upvote away if I blindly upvote comments like I was doing has basically done me in for the moment.

Yeah, comment votes for me went out the door a while back, I am sure the price will recover to a point where voting on a nice comment will make sense again, until then, I keep trying to remember and give a sip of !BEER every now and then.

Instead of all the talk about quality content I would like to see more talk about the quality of some of the Steem Engine Tokens. So far the only one of value I have found is the BEER token. It is the only one I have owned that has gone up in value as the value of steem has dropped. I got my 180 beer at 0.150, now they are like 0.390-0.420 price range, almost a three fold increase.

I keep trying to use some of the tribe names and tags, but I still have a hard time doing that, and their token values are not any better off than steem.

If you know of another gift token that gives value I would like to know, I know ENGAGE is a nice one, but a lot of people outside of the League don't really know what to do with it, and I, like with BEER keep forgetting to use it on occasion. So to go with the BEER, !ENGAGE the virtual consumption device. LoL.

I'm afraid I've been having a time navigating through all the coins I've been gifted, along with the ones I've tried to earn. Nothing seems to be of any particular value. The only one I've actually been buying isn't a STEEM token, but it's available on STEEM-Engine—SNAXP. I don't know if I can really recommend it, but I like the concept, it's not STEEM-related, so even if it never does anything I've found a way to diversify along with some BAT in alt coin projects I understand and would like to see do more.

re: ENGAGE

I think the bot's been down since HF21 came on. I haven't tried for a couple of weeks, though. Let's see if it works now.

!ENGAGE 25

Maybe that is why I have not seen it then. I keep forgetting to put an amount after it. Oh-well.

@basahdow,
There's also the SHADE token, but it's built using the same bot as misterengagement, which means it's down until holger80 can take a look at it.

It's small, but can be used just like the beer token, to reward comments or posts - once it works again, of course.

I've been using the Trendo-token regularly (as you can see on my comment on this post). It's mostly used for posts - still need to check if it is also being used for comments.
https://steem-engine.com/?p=market&t=TRDO
Update: Wow! The number of tokens you get has gone down a lot. I wonder why... need to look into that.

Ufm tokens can be used too, but you need to stake quite a lot to be able to use it once a day...

Unfortunately, those are all I found. i was preparing to do a post about them after @glenalbrethsen did a post about rewarding comments a couple of weeks ago, but I'd like for the misterengagement- and shade- distribution bot to be back up and working again

I'd be reallyinterested if you find any other ones

Might just as well check whether the Trendo token works on comments too while I'm at it.

Here goes nothing:

!trdo

Oh, almost forgot.

I found two tip-bots. TipU and neoxag tip bot

Both need to be preloaded with Steem before you can tip

I tried it and it still doesn't seem to work. I guess Asher will look into it at some point, but it's not been a super high priority because of what's going on with him, and quite a bit due to what's going on with the maker of the bot. Apparently, he's been busy with many other things. So, we'll see when it gets back up and running.

View or trade BEER at steem-engine.



Hey @glenalbrethsen, here is a bit BEER for you. Enjoy it!

I dislike a LOT that we are back to the Quality Content crowd shaming others for what they want to post about. They should hush and downvote or upvote or ignore.

Hey, @whatsup.

re: dislike a lot

Yeah. It's one thing to want quality, it's another to shame people for it, and while a lot of us ask to know why we're being downvoted, being told it doesn't meet some personal and rather arbitrary standard of quality isn't helpful. Entire subjects being off limits, certain opinions not allowed, etc., etc., don't equate to quality, either.

So, anyway, I'm in agreement, in those cases. Upvote, downvote, or neither, but move on.

btw, its this issue that I feel is a big turnoff... in theory the downvotes will work, but imo in practice I see who has wielded power around this place. And since individuals have different objectives (as they should), then bad behavior gets enforced on the weak, but rarely on the strong. Its this flaw that I rarely see discussed. Not trying to be negative, just throwing in my 2cents for old time sake :D :D :D

Hope all is well Glen!!!

Hey, @davemccoy.

I've been fighting a bit of a cold, and I've been working nearly 50 hours more weeks than not so far, so I'm a little worn out, and not on STEEM nearly as much as I want to be, but other than that, life goes on.

Yeah, the whole "might makes right thing" has been an odd philosophy, and what I would have said 21 months ago is about as far away from anarchistic thinking as it gets. But, hey, we're a melting salad pot of a lot of ideals and thought, so there you go. :)

I understand, though. For me, it's been the fact that those who couldn't bring themselves to do what they're doing now merely because they felt the incentives weren't aligned correctly, all the while the rest are basically keeping this puppy afloat—I don't know. It irks me in the worst way, especially since I'm supposed to be so grateful that these founders of newsteem are finally doing what they should have been doing all along.

I do believe in live and let live, and in second chances, though. I know I've needed quite a few. So, I'll eventually let it go. I'm not one to hold onto things like that for very long. I've managed to stave off a rant post about it, too, which I think is a good thing. :)

I agree on the 2nd chances... and in some cases many more than 2... People can change, so if they're willing, then I'm ok with it for sure!!! :D

glad to see you getting good votes Glen... I like the post... I must also admit that I autovote you though because I like you as a person! ... and I have faith enough in you as a person to value your quality at 100% as long as I have a vote! :D

Keep up the good work and glad to see you are part of the pioneers of the newsteem!

Hey, @davemccoy.

I think it's because of those autovotes I pretty much feel like I have to bring something of value every time. And while it's not me who can judge if I do or not, I am trying to do that. I have my own level of standards to uphold, and if I'm not happy, then there's really not much of a good reason to do it. So, the vote of confidence, more than anything, is greatly appreciated.

As for the good votes, well, that's been all of a sudden really, and I'm not sure what to make of it. I've learned you shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. :)

If it can come on all of a sudden, it can certainly be taken away just as quickly.

I think you are a calm and steady voice that is thoughtful about the place... and some of the bigger ones have started to realize it! ;)

I guess we'll see if that's true or not, on the calm and steady and on someone higher up noticing. I'm not sure I want to be on anyone's radar, though. That doesn't sound necessarily good. :)

Yep! One man's trash is another's treasure. We all like different things. Different is good, it is diversity. Are we not always told to embrace diversity?

Steem is also a social media platform - open to all. You get people from all walks of life with variances in IQ and EQ. You have to accept that - like it or not. Yes, there will be 'leakage', but that can't be helped. It happens with the best run company or organization. That is life.

This platform will be very boring and will die a very quick death if it only accepts 'quality posts'. If that were the case you may want to rename it a 'Platform for the Elites' - and have a IQ entrance test before people can be a member. Otherwise, let's not be too particular. Even a bouquet loss its beauty, if it consists of flowers only. There has to be some leaves, or weeds even, to bring out its beauty.

Besides, given time, people will learn, adjust and get better. They will know what is right, what is not acceptable. They will know that if they do a good post, they will get paid better. All these learning take time.

I hope you get my drift. I am not most eloquent. I probably can explain it better in a face to face conversation.

Hey, Vincent.

No worries. I think your point came across pretty well.

I doubt the majority of folks here are trained writers. Some of them may be long time bloggers, but I doubt many hold a degree in writing of some kind, or have worked as a writer. That wouldn't be why people come here.

There is a value ratio that will go into effect for any post that is low effort just because of market forces. What happens here is, people will bot stuff like that up, for whatever reasons, and that's where the issue lies, even though they're not going to get that amount on the post because they're paying out SBD or STEEM or whatever to get it there.

However, we have folks who are self-appointed quality police who really aren't looking for quality as much as they are looking for stuff that they either like or deem worthy of being on the blockchain. The latter are the folks I'm most wary and concerned about, because anytime we start putting a moral value on things, we need to be careful, because the pendulum can easily swing the other way.

Yes, nothing worse than self-righteous, educated fools. 😊

This is a quality post. It's easy to fall into the trap of upvoting content because you know the person. I do it occasionally.
But then again, in terms of quality, I have tried to put as much effort in as I can with each post. I know intuitively that not every little thing that I post is going to have effort or quality to it and therefore less upvotes. For example, I did a DTube video about before and after my recent haircut. It was supposed to be added to another shout out video but I felt that it didn't fit the flow of that particular video. Lo and behold, that video didn't do very well. The shout out video has done great guns so far.

What I've done is create my own "seal of approval" where if I post something that I know has a fair bit of effort behind it, cohesive and easy to read, markdown code, relevant tags and might be of interest to those reading it then it gets the seal of approval it a small cartoon image of myself modified slightly to reflect the subject matter in the blog post.

So, for example, if I am talking about something to do with Splinterlands, the image is of me holding a Splinterlands card.
I might put a spoon or fork in my hand for the FFF competition in future entries.

Hey, @shaidon.

I like the idea of a seal of approval. It's similar to what I've seen one or two others do, and it helps to say that you're backing what you're posting.

I'm in agreement with you about doing your best on every post. That doesn't always mean, in my case, that I'm achieving it, but I think I manage to get to the best I can do on that day, given the circumstances, more times than not. I'd like to have all the time I used to have back, but for the moment, with work and so forth, it's not going to happen.

We have a local monthly meet up at a local pub for Adelaide based Steemians and anyone can turn up.
You do get a few pretentious snobs there at times who go on and on about 'quality posts' or some crap, or they will accuse me of 'raping the reward pool' or whatever, but they post crap every day.

While most people won't understand what I am trying to do, I can't focus on what are saying and am just going to do my own thing.

This is my quality approval image for the food fight friday competition:

Shaidon Cartoon FFF.jpg

I might change it to chopsticks for asian food, or a slice of pizza for pizzas, but for the most part it will just be me with a fork.

I like it. I think it's a great idea, especially if you're doing the graphic design yourself or know someone who does it cheaply. :)

It seems to me that people should be worried more about their own thing than that of others. This protecting the reward pool is a good idea—and there's been plenty of abuse—but it goes overboard too, and into a state of hypocrisy where people do it because "they're protecting their investment." While burning down the platform? I don't know. I'll never understand it.

So, anyway. If people aren't interested in what's out there, maybe they should declare what they do want to read about, and then see if anyone's interested in writing about it. :)

Howdy sir glen! I've never downvoted anything and don't see a reason for it. If you don't like someone or something written, just don't read it. Let everyone write what they want.
I never think about quality when I post but maybe I should!

Hey, @janton.

Well, I think about it myself, but I've spent a lot of my life writing, and I owned a newspaper, where we had to reach a certain standard on a regular basis. I know, though, I'm in the minority, including of those who are concerned there isn't a lot of quality to be had. I doubt many of them are technical writers or know the different style books.

So, if they were to say, I can't find a whole lot of what I like, which is more what they mean, and then said, hey, this is what I want to read, and then maybe say, and it should do this and this and this, it would be much more constructive than just saying, "Whelp, can't find anything to curate. Bunch of trash."

It's amazing to me that people say there is nothing to read. I always find interesting subjects but maybe my standards are lower than normal! lol.

I think there is incredible talent still producing amazing work here. Two of my favorites are the amazing meesterboom and the WAY under-rated but phenomenal ginnyannette. I am totally entertained and fascinated by anything either one of them write!

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