Why bother with circle jerks?
For those of you with your mind quickly going towards the gutter I am not talking about that TYPE of circle jerk. I am talking about the conceptual type that is the more common usage for the phrase these days I believe.
The circle jerk I refer to is the process where people that already all share common beliefs or ideologies talk endlessly about the things they all already know.
I have to wonder why? Is it purely about comfort and not wanting to deal with conflict?
It has to be one of the slowest ways to learn anything new if all you do is talk about the things your group already has in common. That doesn't seem particularly productive.
I do think it may be about comfort, and strength in numbers. Yet this seems fear motivated. Be brave. The learning opportunities are much greater when we are not speaking into echo chambers.
Speak with people who have different ideas than you. If you can both remain civil and treat each other with respect I guarantee these will be some of the best opportunities for BOTH of you to learn new things.
Let's talk about respect and civility...
When I am in a discussion with someone I disagree with as soon as they resort to insults, or name calling I kind of feel like I won the argument. Yet really I didn't. That is actually one of the saddest of outcomes. That is when an impasse is encountered and the flow of information between the two people ceases.
I didn't win. In reality, the best possible outcome for such an encounter is if there are no winners and both people learn and benefit from it. That is what I try to strive towards. I am human, I often fail. Sometimes I succeed. Yet I'll try again.
So this thought about Circle Jerks was kind of where my mind sequed too after my one trick pony post.
I realized there are people that make a career about talking about the same thing ALL the time. They are usually important things. There are also some people that are very good at it and were often an early influence on my thinking. However, the more I interacted with them the more I learned what they would say. Eventually I'd see some beautifully written pieces that told me absolutely nothing new. They are still great for people that have never encountered those concepts. Yet for those that have understood them they begin to not have much personal learning value.
That lead me to wondering about these people when they might have a facebook page where they are active on and they are surrounded by "fans". Would this often turn into nothing more than a circle jerk? There of course are likely exceptions, but is that not predominantly what it would likely form into?
It can be very uplifting to have "fans" raving and talking about your brilliance. Yet is it a moment of growth? Can it be a moment of stagnation? Can you be trapped in a cage of your own making where you are the "expert" in a specific field and that is all people want to hear from you?
That is pretty depressing.
These people should come to steemit, or other places where they interact with people on many different ideas, and with people that disagree respectfully. Engage, Empower, and Expand your mind... come to steemit...!!!
Nicely written.
I call it 'The Echo Chamber of the Glad Hand'.
This is why I came to Steemit. I use multiple news sources that all tend to run the same different lines. This place seems to have It all. I also like the nice disagreements that happen here if they do. Respect. This place is Respect.
I agree, I would much rather challenge my belief systems every day and gain perspective than reassure myself of what I already perceive as true.
I agree that this platform has the potential to be a good place for discussions.
Good outlook.
There is a ditch on both sides of the road.
One side loves the rut (a grave with the ends missing).
"And he said unto them, Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition." (Mark 7:9)
The other side loves tickling their "itching ears" with every new idea.
"(For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)" (Acts 17:21)
Holding on to what is true and learning new truths, and discarding what is false and what is proven untrue is the only way to long term growth and success.
Another insiteful piece...hope you don't mind a re-steem!
A snake can get only so full eating his own ass.
LOL - I love it. I have never heard that one.
My phrasing but not a very original concept. It describes a consumption driven economy.
Oh I instantly got it. It made me think of Ouroboros. It was clever of you.
thanks!
I completely agree. jerking motion
It is actually something that I felt in some of our more recent discussions. We have talked for hours and hours, and I think I got a pretty good idea of your values, ideology and "way of thinking".
We have a ton of common ground. I would even dare to say we agree on all problems and only differ from time to time in the solution. But even there we tend to accept the solution of the other as a valid approach.
What I really do like about that, is that I find many of my ideas in your texts. Well written out, comprehensive and thought through. I often struggle to bring ideas across in a compelling manner, a problem more dominant in my verbal communication. I would have no problem to point someone to one of your articles instead of explaining my thoughts myself.
Had the topic with a friend on a party yesterday. He told me how he could argue his statements much better when he was still young. After 15 years of just hanging out with people he liked, he never got his "conspiracy theories" or ideas challenged.
It is normal to feel to drawn to people with the same ideas, but you should always try to seek 'confrontation'. The philosophy class in school that I mentioned before was not great because we all agreed on everything, quite the opposite. We had completely different viewpoints, but a very civil and calm way of discussion.
Steemit is great to challenge your ideas, because we have this 'keep it positive' attitude going on. My latest opponent is @sirknight , I am gonna try and convince him of unconditional basic income. Any opinions on that btw? Hoped it might finally be a topic we can disagree on as well....
Well I was asked about that the other day on another post. The biggest risk I see to UBI is how the market would likely adapt. I say likely, because it is how they have adapted to other guaranteed by the government things.
I suspect if you gave people $15K of guaranteed income, that over time there would be $15K of unnecessary inflation, and or other fees. So eventually you'd be piling on the new debt (see my there is no free shit article from a couple of days ago) and people would be in the same circumstance they were before UBI was implemented.
This is what happens when we raise the minimum wage (every time).
As thing adjust eventually we are back where we were before but the people negatively effected when it adjusts are actually greater in number because, minimum wage increase followed by the reaction actually erode away the bottom side of the middle class. So in the long run the lower class grows, and the middle class shrinks from the bottom side. This has happened every time. I do not see why repeating it would change this.
However, UBI I don't believe would erode or change the class composition like the minimum wage increase does. It would be given to everyone so really all I see it doing is over time resetting back to $0 in value even though everyone gets it.
Like minimum wage though I suspect it would be a short term THIS IS GREAT for a lot of people. Then later it might be bad.
The likely outcome is they keep increasing the size of the UBI just like they do with minimum wage.
In my opinion minimum wage and UBI are very different. It might shock you, but I am not in favor of minimum wage. The Idea behind UBI is that you do not need a job to survive, you can do things like art, writing or music as your main occupation without the risk of becoming homeless if your next book flops or you dont sell enough drawings.
The job creations in the service sector are laughable. They are jobs that dont create value in many cases. Just let the people chill. Why is "we have not enough work" even a problem in a society?
Thomas Paine, one of your founding fathers had really cool ideas on UBI. I believe as well that you should get part of the income of your community, so that you have a sort of stock in it. It would have very positives effects on the community just like on Steemit :D
btw Alaska has something interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund
They are different. I agree. I suspect we can learn some from minimum wage to some degree though. As I haven't found proof of any FREE things when government is involved. That means UBI given to everyone would likely express it's existence in a form of payment elsewhere.
I mean if all the billionaires pooled there money together and offered to pay the UBI from their funds they may be able to do it for a year or two. Eventually they would no longer have enough themselves.
So it is basically printing money out of thin air (which they do) and this increases the amount of money in circulation and dilutes it's value. What $1 can buy today might take $2 tomorrow. It is a form of inflation.
UBI I would expect to accelerate this. And like minimum wage, when the UBI is no longer enough then there will be calls to increase the UBI and it'd just be a vicious cycle.
So yes they are DIFFERENT. Yet there are similarities as well.
I have read quite a bit of Thomas Paine. STOCK is also different from the UBI people are proposing. That would be an interesting way to do it, and could be better than the way they talk about doing it. The problem is it'd require a vast retooling of the global economy, and it wouldn't necessarily favor those that have power. So something like that MIGHT work, but that is not what they are proposing. :)
A problem with UBI is that in rural pparts of eastern Germany you only need 600€ to get along while it can easily be 1500€ in a big city. Its one of the reason I found these oldschool The land belongs to the people thus they have stake in it and get a part of the profits.
Also you have a mathematical redistribution of wealth. It wont make the rich become poor, the average man should be slightly on the winning side. This would only slow down the well known richer get richer effect. Just to demonstrate the math very simplified.
2 people earn 20000$ p.m.
8 people earn 5000$ p.m.
6 people earn 0$ p.m.
We take 10% of each and redistribute equally
2 people earn 18500$ p.m.
8 people earn 5000$ p.m.
6 people earn 500$ p.m
ofc nothing is free, im not pro state, because i am pro-free stuff :D. But as you can see the middle class his not rly hit only the upper class and the lowest class gets some leeway. Ofc you can get rid of a lot of welfare stuff that should become obsolete.
Since my approach is local, I dont see how it could not be a voluntary contract between a community to have such redistribution. State does necessarily be involved for UBI.
Also those pushing for a UBI like the billionaires are not pushing a redistribution of wealth program. As far as I can tell it would simply be a debt based print more FIAT currency program.
Yes... I get that.
It isn't the moment of implementation or the reasons I am concerned with.
Once you have a guaranteed income or guaranteed by government something. It historically is taken advantage of.
My concern is no matter what value you set UBI at let's call it X.
Over time you will have new taxes, fees, and potentially price increases to make your expenses be essentially X more than they are now. It just resets 0.
At that point people will say raise the UBI. So perhaps it becomes 2X.
Over time the cycle repeats and soon the new zero due to fees, taxes, and cost inflation is 2X. That is the new $0.
People don't always inflate prices because they have to. The also do it because they can. This is what has happened in the U.S. in both our education system and our medical system.
This is why I compared it to the minimum wage, as this also happens every time we raise the minimum wage.
People get all excited during that period where X is above the zero point. Once it becomes the new 0 point then things are the same as before the UBI.
I see your concerns, I still think UBI can be a good instrument if used correctly, tho. As you said inflation is always happening, so my approach would be to negate some of the resulting pressure.
It would also be perfect in my Utopia, because I just dont see how we have to create working places out of thin air, just for the sake of letting people work.
I see the need for people to be able to survive. This is clear. Though I also do not believe someone needs to survive if they put forth ZERO effort. I am not saying those who look for work, or try to be creative and don't succeed. Those are the people that need help. I don't see the world as being benefited by people who choose to do nothing and just live off of the UBI.
I do however, like the old saying:
We may not be able to have jobs in the traditional sense. Yet we may have other ways a person can be of value.
Doing nothing and collecting UBI has no value IMO. In fact, it can be like a plague. People see it, wonder "Why am I working, when you just sit on your ass, I want to sit on my ass too" This does happen. There are people like me that would never be content doing nothing.
I've been asked what I think of immortality. I've stated as long as I still have ideas to create, and projects to complete then I have a reason to want to live. Without those things why bother?
Great post @dwinblood!
I have also encountered the phenomenon on a daily basis, and have often been wondering why people do it. I agree that fear does play a big part, however i have found that most people are simply mentally lazy, and don't want any inputs that could have an impact on their reality tunnel. Furthermore I think most people are completely satisfied with living in dogmatic social constructions (religion, science, politics etc.) because they give them all the answers they need and no one should tell them otherwise.
Upwoted and followed :)