Did Jesus Claim Diety?
Did Jesus claim divinity?
John 10:
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
The Jews had no concept of a Trinity and did not accuse Jesus of claiming to be God in the flesh. Jesus was accused of blasphemy for calling God his Father. By calling God his Father, Jesus was boldly saying that he came from God and that he was the Christ. The title "Son of God" is synonymous with being the Christ. This was always the issue at hand among those who rejected him or accept him.
Matthew 26:63 -tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
John 6:69 -And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
As the Son of God, Jesus was claiming a high position, having power and authority from God. This of course would be a blasphemous claim to make if it were not true. To the Jews, Jesus was making himself god: a man who has qualities regarded as making him superior to other men. This is what the Jews meant when they said that he makes himself God, which is confirmed by the context of the following verses.
Jesus responds to their hypocrisy by quoting Psalm 82 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."
If those who received the word of God were called gods, then how can the chosen one who is sent by God be accused of blasphemy for calling himself the Son of God. Jesus confirms that the issue at hand is in him calling himself the Son of God.
because I said, I am the Son of God?
He then gives them the test: If he doesn't do the works of the Father, then don't believe him. But if he does the works of God then, though they don't believe him, they should believe that God is working within Him. Another words, if he does the works of God, then he cannot be accused of blasphemy because the Father is working within him and by his works are his words proven.
Jesus wasn't claiming equality to God but rather his position as the Christ. The Jews said that he was guilty of making himself God, or giving himself a high position. Jesus correctly claimed that he was the Son of God, not claiming his own power but that of his Father. Jesus was in the form of god with power and authority, but not equal to God who is above all.
Even during the Crucifixion the Jews clearly show that they never believed he was claiming to be God and rather the Son of God with clear distinction between the two.
Matthew 27:
41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,
42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
Extra Reading:
A Foreshadowing of Christ
Genesis 41:40-41 Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou. And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt.
Genesis 44:18 Then Judah came near unto him, and said, Oh my lord, let thy servant, I pray thee, speak a word in my lord's ears, and let not thine anger burn against thy servant: for thou art even as Pharaoh.
Joseph was equal to Pharaoh in all things except the throne. The Pharaoh gave Joseph this position and power. Though he was "even as Pharaoh" and had all the power of Pharaoh..He was not the same being as Pharaoh. Pharaoh was still over him in the throne just as Jesus has been given all power in Heaven and Earth but sits at the right hand of the Father who is above all. When you don't understand the relationship of the Father and Son, you may mistake Jesus as God since he has the power and authority of God but this is because he was given this power. When Jesus has put all the enemies of God under his feet, he will subject himself to the Father and once again God will rule over all.
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
I and the Father are One
When Jesus states that he and his Father are one, it means being one in mind and spirit. Jesus prayed to the Father in John 17 that we too would be one as he and his Father are one. If Jesus were God himself it would seem odd for him to pray to the Father at all. Not only does he pray, but he prays that we would be one as they are; Not one in being or Godhead, but one in mind and spirit; That we too can be called Sons. Certainly we would not expect to become equally God as the Trinitarian interpretation would assume.
John 17:
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
The Bible does make it clear that Jesus is God.
Besides what it says, it also makes sense. His death - a murder - represents our human rejection of God and our sin against Him. And His death to atone for our sins pays the penalty of our punishment for us. Only God can forgive this debt by paying it Himself. That's how He can forgive it. He overlooks it on the one hand but also pays it, so justice is done. And our debt is to Him and no one else.
I would argue that the Bible is very clear that Jesus is not God. You didn't give any verses to support your claim.
Who is God, God is the Father, and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. The Father alone holds the title of God consistently throughout the Bible. There are literally hundreds of clear verses demonstrating this clear fact. You are choosing to deny the truth to hold unto the traditions of a corrupt church.
Your doctrine does not make sense... here why. His death? God cannot die, I'm sure we all agree on that. You are saying that God's pretend death atones for our sins? This is what the Bible says:
Noticed that the Scriptures are clear that Jesus is a man. God is just and it is just that because sin and death is brought unto us through man, that these sins should be paid for man man. Through obedience, the man Jesus Christ gave himself as a perfect sacrifice. The man has been exalted and sits at the right hand of God. Do you believe that he is sitting at the right hand of himself? Do you believe that God is a man? This is all heresy. Take a new look.
Jesus is the mediator between God and man. God cannot be a mediator because He is one and a mediator cannot be one of himself.
Bless u
I need to make a fresh branch here because the display is getting a bit stretched.
Doug, you said the following:
It has everything to do with Islam, as Islam is nothing more than the finest of Christian Heresy. You don't appear to be sufficiently grounded in the heresies of the early Church, and exactly why councils (of bishops) were called in order to codify the most fundamental aspects of the faith.
Yes, messiah, christ, and anointed one all mean the same thing, sure. But what do they mean to YOU? If Jesus was not "born of the Father before all ages", as the Christian creed says, but he was somehow special, anointed messiah at some point in his life, you need to understand that you are professing nothing more than an early christian heresy, Arianism. You repeat that you are just going back to the beginning, to the primitive Church, but surely you must realize that the primitive Church fought for centuries against the heresy that you are espousing.
This is pretty rich. People are trying to help you realize that it is YOU who have separated yourself from 2000 years of continuous christian tradition, and you then say that you might as well not debate with Catholic thinking because you are so far from it. You do not appear to realize that the differences between all the Christian denominations are basically nothing compared to the unbridgeable gulf that you are standing on the other side of. Christians, by definition believe in the Holy Trinity, as codified in the Nicean Creed. You can't claim to be a different faith than just the catholics. You have to include the orthodox and protestants, because essentially all believe the same thing, compared to the heresy that you believe.
I have to come back to one question though, because you use the Bible alone (sola scriptura) to make your arguments.