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RE: Christian and Atheist discussion: Faith is a gift? Hell. Belief. Philosophy. Mythology. Truth.
This has been a great post. Thank you for allowing us to witness this exchange. What helped me understand God was a personal epiphany that to do so I needed to think of Him as outside our 3 dimensions, our five senses, and not contained within linear time. Humans are unique in the animal world in our ability to think not only in real time and space as any animal can do, but far beyond. Humans are not capable of original thought, but we are surrounded by a world created by it. Each new human being and every germinated seed is an original thought of the Creator.
Again, thank you so much for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it, Chuck. Yes, I agree that humans are capable of thinking far beyond what animals do. We have imagination. And that's where we found God.
I like the idea that we're surrounded by a world created by thought. Interesting. I'm gonna think on that one. Cheers :)
Thank you for the reply and upvote. I will look forward to any thoughts you have on "thought", but also on the confinement of 3 dimensions, five senses, and linear time. Something else too. When I studied religions, not formally just on my own, I decided that the best way to evaluate it was by its fundamental written documents. I found that in every religion the followers don't follow very well. They all fall short of adherence to their guiding principles. Most of the time driven by arrogance or corrupted by power. Judging a religion by its followers begins with a flawed premise I think. Yes?
Hiya Chuck :)
Yes, I think you're right about that in most instances. However, most people are too lazy to analyse the original documents. For example, if I were exposed to a bunch of people who were, by my standards, not very pleasant, then I found out that they all subscribed to a particular religion, I would likely take that human shortcut (however misguided) and assume the teachings of that religion to be subpar.
What are your thoughts on the dimensions, senses and linear time? It's fascinating stuff. We don't understand a lot of things that happen. @andrewcarnegie told me about a dream he had which turned out to be prophetic. Lots of people have similar experiences. It's also like the 'gut feeling' we can have which warns us of danger. So, there's something going on in other dimensions, senses and with linear time which may account for these unexplained phenomena. All very Matrixy :D
See you soon hopefully
Cheers
Anj :)
Many thanks for the reply and upvote. I have never had prophetic dreams that I'm aware of. I'm just older than dirt and have thought about this stuff for decades. Something I just realized though is that when Christians or Jews focus on specific passages of the Bible they are using it to support their own viewpoints. I have read the Quran and maybe there too. In doing so they fall prey to the contradictions you so eloquently pointed out in the post. When looking at the Bible as a complete "enchilada" without breaking it up to support a narrow selfish agenda, the message is so simple. This is a quote from a children's Sunday school song "Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so". The Bible is just there to prepare a person for what could be a higher life experience. Christians are called to act like Jesus. That's it. The marching orders for Christians are clearly stated in Matthew chapters 5, 6, and 7 commonly called the Sermon on the Mount.
If you believe in the existence, or possible existence of God you believe in the supernatural. The supernatural is perceived to be on the outside of our common experience which is limited to 3 dimensions, 5 senses, and linear time. Original thought does not exist within these constraints so how can God? If time is not linear for us after we perish maybe it is possible to witness our birth, death, and historical events, Biblical events, simultaneously. Is death for us a gateway to an existence outside these limitations. We are the only creatures on earth that can contemplate these possibilities. To refuse to do so could be a desire to take a step back to a lower plane of intellectual existence. Or do I need another beer?
Hiya Chuck
Sorry I didn't answer you sooner here (I'm running a competition and my inbox is flooded – hard to find actual conversations lol).
Yes, there's that confirmation bias everywhere. I'm guilty of that. At the mo, mine is in looking for reasons to continue eating meat and butter and cream. I've found lots of brilliant evidence supporting it.
The Quran is a hoot isn't it. One of my ex husbands is Muslim. That was a fun marriage :P
I love your analogy – the Bible as a complete enchilada. For the most part, Christians seem to have that overview and do their best to live that way. My position, I suppose, is that it's possible to live with a similar approach. My mantra is that we're all in this together and to not be too much of a dick. It's inbuilt in most of us to be that way. My issue is when we zoom in from the overview and get to see the details (other religions too). This is what puts me off. Also, the incidence of hypocrisy and narcissism I've witnessed in some members.
You know, when I was going to church (as an adult), there was a really smelly woman. Everyone referred to her (behind her back) as Smelly Mary (which was a double entendre). She was old, arthritic and had a huge pack of dogs. Lovely person, but she did reek. Once, it was snowing, bitter cold, and she wasn't best dressed for the weather. It surprised me that none of the regular congregation offered to drive her home.
Dimensions, time, senses: I love the quantum stuff but can barely bend my head around it. It's so alien. I love the idea of death being the doorway to something else. I hope so. Can't remember exactly, but Timothy Leary seemed to have a great attitude towards it. He reckoned we have an entire universe inside our brains.
I'm ok with the idea of all this intelligence out there somewhere. I can imagine that as possible. If it had the label 'GOD', then that's irrelevant to me. But I hope to understand more about it.
Lol, I think I need a beer now too :D
Thanks again for the reply and upvote. Hypocrisy is everywhere, even in a church. That is why I like to focus on the guidance documents of a religion because all people fall short especially when they ignore the needs within the church. "Church" is a group of people, not a building they meet in. The purpose of a church is be there for other members who are in need. That's about it. People like "smelly Mary" are with us to provide an opportunity to others to step up to meet her needs. Obviously, Mary's church failed. If you go to a church expecting someone to say something you don't like, you will not have long to wait. As the old saying goes, a church is not a hotel for saints, it is a hospital for sinners.
Hiya Chuck
Nice.
The problem I have with the bible being a guidance document is that it contains an agenda, propaganda. Propaganda tends to put its agenda first, with truth relegated to optional. Amongst the 'good' guidance, there is stuff that I would consider 'bad', especially its advice on slavery, women, homosexuals, adulterers, eating shellfish/pork... I prefer to take my guidance from less tainted sources.
If I meet a person who talks lots of sense, then I hear him saying he believes (for example) that black people are inferior, he immediately loses credibility. I can no longer trust him as a source of wisdom. The same goes for the bible.
Thanks for the food for thought.
Cheers
Anj :)
Thank you for the exchange and upvote