The Normalization of downvotes | Read this post, then downvote it

in busy •  3 months ago  (edited)

This is not a rant. Or maybe it is, I don't know.

I guess this is just me coming to post after almost a week of not doing it, to tell you some harsh truths, whether you like it or not.

I wasn´t sure if I should make this post because I'm confident it will bring some controversial opinions to the table and at the same time it will gain me some enemies, but sometimes you just have to be vocal about specific topics to make sure people know your stance and where you are standing concerning some Steem issues.

Downvotes, previously known as flags, are being casted more and more by some users, perhaps not as much as they should be, and definitely not as little as some others wished them to happen.

A lot of Steemians are speaking about how normalizing downvotes is something that we should be striving for, that people in general should understand that being on the receiving end of them is not the end of the world.

We are currently part of a social experiment that has a self regulated community, where we allocate rewards depending on who and where we place our votes, and our stake determines how much influence we have in the community.

The moment you post something on Steem, you are accepting and embracing all the upvotes you receive and you are assuming that if you play nice/have a good behaviour, you will only receive positive votes.

But also, and this is why most Steemians don't get, is that the moment we post, we are also putting our content out there to be downvoted. The same way we accept every upvote, we shoud accept and embrace every downvote. It comes with the free market and free-willed, self regulated community.

Having a self regulated reward pool distribution means that we will experience unfairness, over-rewards, underrated content. It means that some times your amazing content will pass unnoticed or maybe your shitpost will receive an unusual amount of votes and engagement. I've been on both sides of the situation and I learned to accept it, especially as a content creator who's made a lot of Steem out of content creation and also has bought a big chunk of Steem in the modern era (not when 100,000 steem was worth just a few thousand dollars).

I've received flags in the past and I've received downvotes nowadays. I don't make a fuss out of it. In fact, if you're still reading this, please downvote my content. Feel free to do it, I won't retaliate and perhaps it will be a good excercise for you, to get used to hand out downvotes without feeling guilty or scared of the consecquences. If you feel this post is overrewarded or comes from an abusive Steemian, please downvote it. Hell, even if you think I'm a good guy creating good content, downvote this post. Let's normalize downvotes.

Understand that the downvotes can and will come from every Steemian on the platform and that's exactly why we voted to have free downvotes, so more and more people started using them and self-regulate the reward pool.

I've been handing some downvotes, most of them because I believe that bidbot abusers deserve some downvotes: no post promotion should come with a profit. I've flagged vote rings or so called circle jerks: I believe that there are some content creators that are getting a massive amount of rewards just because they own a lot of stake and instead of trying to spread the wealth - just as steem was intented to work - by using proof of brain, they prefer to vote on their other wealthy friends effectively growing their stake but hurting the platform by doing so. There's been some normal downvotes to blatant abuse/plagiarism, that's self explanatory.

The point here is, if you post, you're putting your content out there and setting it subject to other people's critique and votes, wether they're negative or positive. Learn to accept both.

Know that in a self regulated community, there are highly influential people that can and will use their stake to do what they think is positive for the platform and if you are not an ideal Steemian - a term that is subjective, but I think we can all agree what could be a good steemian - some people will downvote your content. Just as you can do the same to them.

But question yourself: What good is growing your stake by the thousands a month if the overall price of Steem is dropping?

Why the hell do you think is a good strategy to not spread your voting power and curate on great authors and instead just vote on a few other accounts that have no positive influence on the platform?

Do you really think that is smarter to grow your account from 100k steem to 150k in a matter of a year if the price drops from 17 cents to 7 cents?

Think about it. Normalize downvotes. Don't make a big deal about them. It's better to question yourself why did you receive these downvotes. Perhaps you're looking at the picture from the wrong angle. Ask yourself: Am I behaving the way I am because I'm trying to grow my own stake and only benefit myself and a few others or, am I working towards the overall benefit of the platform, the health of the token and as a consquence, a growth of my stake's value?

And finally, ask yourself: Do I prefer to have 10k Steem worth 10 dollars each, or do I prefer to own 100k steem worth 20 cents each?

Then asnwer yourself, and then start analyzing if what you're doing right now is encouraging scenario #1 to happen, or if it is making scenario #2 be inevitable.

Also, this is not about one person or one situation, it's inspired by several situations and conversations with stakeholders. Its not aimed to attack a specific Steemian but more to address some people's stance about downvotes.

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Hi @anomadsoul,

Regardless, of our earlier conversation, downvotes are the least of the problems I am dealing with right now. Yes, some people get them on small blogs. Yes they feel terrorized because they have never encountered this before. Yes, I explain what it's all about many time a week. Tiny accounts who get the 10% downvote by an account with 15 sp think they have done something wrong and want help all the time. STEEM is highly complicated when you are new here. When you only get 10 votes for 10 cents and then get a downvote, you do not understand what it means or what to do. ("Nothing," I tell them. "Don't worry. Keep posting your good content and read my billion minnow tips again.")

But downvotes are not the main issue for the little blogs post-fork. I wrote this post today - not exactly what I planned, but I hope you will take a look and see if you get my position now.

https://steempeak.com/esteem/@fitinfun/freewrite-day-698-a-bunch-of-excuses

And if you could look at this post that has been curated by several programs:

https://steempeak.com/homestead/@johndoer123/homestead-update-2-spring-is-tapped-teepee-built

I think it is a great post from a worthy STEEMer. I have been following him for months. He gets great engagement. He gets all this good attention and a 70 cent payout. I know he is not complaining and likes posting here. But my small vote is meaningless and the programs supporting him are weak too.

So where do we go from here? There are several large initiatives trying to "onboard the masses" right now. The fork seems to have gone well if you are over 5000 sp and do not look down at the bottom of the pool. Assuming we get "the masses" averaging 50 and less sp, who is going to support them if we can not support this guy now?

Feel free to ignore. I'm only here because you are about the only person of any clout that has even talked to me about this.

its a circle jerk and your politeness makes you an angel. You need to come to telos and just leave steem to bottom out and for all bid bot owners to power down and leave them with their crab bucket :D

Today I dealt with case on Appics where some users complaining that they received downvotes on their Appics posts and they cant use Appics anymore due to downvotes. So I asked them to send links. To check why they have receiving heat of downvotes.

To my surprise the user heavily bidbotted an Appics post which has a simple photo with around $30-$40 which is ridiculous. As it to be happen, it went straight to trending page where whales shown their disagreement on rewards.

Most of the people who ranting about downvotes are pushing their content in to trending page which high SP holders think it shouldn't be there.

Posted using Partiko Android

I think I know who you're talking about, was it a pic of a brown dog looking at the camera? I remember that one. Hell, and people then wonder why are they getting downvoted...

What if, project like *oracle-d keep supporting a single photograph post , and no one even care to downvote such post.

I have seen Oracle D onboarding influencial individuals from other platforms and later it turns out to be their duty to retain them in the platform through fat upvotes.

But voting on like shit posts is not a worth. What about those user who put in maximum efforts and still getting nothing.....and the user I knew is not much of fame still ever Tye actifit post with only 2-3 sentence content are getting $5 upvote....and no whales can take action neither anyone can downvote becoz noone wants to be in mess with such powerful whales

Then you go and downvote and share the link with me too. Like anamad said still there are some good whales who have visions about our community whom we can approach for tackling abuse.

Easy, just tell me or any of the other top witness dudes who like keeping in touch with the community like @acidyo, @crimsonclad and many others and we can bring oracleD's attention to this. I'm sure they'll be open to dialogue :)

Okay @anomadsoul, I will directly DM you the name. Not sure what make oracle-d to vote such post but I do not find any reason that such single photo post or mere actifit post worth $5 upvote from such big project owner

Bro the problem is these technocratic whales, kings of an empire of dust, are crab bucketing it up, trying to MICROMANAGE steem like fucking playing starcraft on n64 bro

it aint gonna work u cant possibly manually curate the internet... let us buy upvotes from bi bots because that was the free market and steembottracker is not some sort of enemy of steem... bid bots are the only reason steem could support such high levels , people found profit in automating things, we cant act like steem is worthy of the manual attention people want or expect us to give a token worth what 10 cents? Its not right to treat us like slaves when we were here building steem too.. we might as well unionize and get the government to outlaw downvoting and fine them at this point i mean shit lol if they wanna play this game we can be absurdist too :D (I hope you are all entertained lol imagine, police telling you that you cant downvote thats cyber bullying lol )

what do we want? for the same 5 people and their friends to be all thats allowed on trending? Are they trying to drive us to neoxian.city and palnet and steemleo because thats whats happening. MASSIVE power downs and

@steemflow who dare to downvote oracle-d supported things 😂 downvotes only targeted to who don't have power to counter them and given by people who have nothing to loose.

Posted using Partiko Android

That is why I'm telling you, tell me or users like those I mentioned and we'll deal with just like we've been trying to deal with other stuff similar to what you mention :D

I am glad we have a place to discuss these things Even if i disagree with you on the importance of bidbots and how this is bad and will end up with massive bid bot owner exodus and steem dumping, I still Thank you for the article nomadsoul

I am sending you 1 PEOSp as a gift and some challangedac tokens both withdrawable as eos tokens on steem engine

Rightly said, that why even mentioning such name may ask for trouble @hungryharish. Would share the name with Ano, and will see where and what the outcome

If big SP holders do such things(unnatural behavior), close your eyes, shut your mouth. You don't see anything you don't talk anything. This is the reason most users including me get frustrated..

While that may have been true a few weeks ago, nowadays most of the big players are open to dialogue and improvement and those who are not, will get outshined by the good players. I get your point, but I haven't seen it happen these past two weeks but as I mentioned above man, if you see it happen you can tell me. I happen to be lucky enough to have a direct channel to raise these topics to top stakeholders/witnesses and I'm sure anything and everything you mention will be addressed, but sometimes we miss these things, that's why we all need the community to be vocal about this stuff.

I am glad you took some of your time to reply to this. I also want to see how far this new hype can go.. Sometimes people complain me being a little bit negative. But I have yet to find a good reason to change that feeling/thinking. Let's hope for the good....I complain because I don't want to see it dying. Otherwise I could have already left the platform rather than wasting my time complaining which in fact won't get me anything.

@anomadsoul. It's really nice seeing you say this.

Unfortunately for me, 😂 I had an encounter yesterday with bernie. Just because I flagged one of his spamming accounts. He came on a downvote spree on my account. You can check my post and comments yesterday.

Is it that it's ok for some whales 🐳 🐳 to spam, self upvote those spammed contents heavily and expect to receive a handshake from minnows who are leaking whale 🐳 balls? And no small account should raise an eyebrow? 💁

Posted using Partiko Android

But I thought he is a changed man now as he announced so.

I thought so too dear @katteasis. Obviously, I thought wrong. I believe he's still battling with his old self and I hope he wins😂. It's impossible to change overnight. Real Metamorphosis takes time.

Posted using Partiko Android

Agree, ...it's kind of asking trouble. I just came across to this user who get continous support without any.conteng put me in lot of question.

Posted using Partiko Android

Here, https://steemit.com/busy/@katteasis/py0vuj
I was replying to your comment but as it became long I posted to the main thread in a tiny hope of gaining more visibility so as to see community response.

I shared the links to Eric, I am not sure why such things happening and no whale yet bother about putting a restriction on such unconditional support on shit posts. ....a picture post and $5 upvote....it's all whales ...bosses are always right😆

I wonder if AppPics is going to survive HF21, I used to ignore them due to lack of effort.., now they can be a flag magnet.

They’ll be rewarding their token in the future - not many will stand for a photo earning loadsa STEEM these days.

We downvoted an APPICS photo of soup with the #naturalmedicine tag. Token farming on photos just kills me.

  ·  3 months ago (edited)

But what about if someone has a photo and a quick blurb? Example, I posted a pic of a Black Widow and posted a quick story about the encounter. It was something I thought was interesting and felt was a cool pic. Nothing that I could flesh out into a novel but enough for the reader to get the general idea of the situation. I used APPICS for this. It’s at 3 bucks and change. Is this something that the community would look at and think is unnecessary dogshit? I think an app like this has a place here for these types of scenarios. I don’t expect them to earn boatloads unless brilliant, but I think when we start becoming too snobbish we can scare some regular common folks away.

Example. My son. @drdoggo420 just put up a small post that most here would deem worthless and crappy. He’s a teenager, struggles with writing and expressing himself, and im trying like hell to get him involved. Im thrilled at the fact that he’s trying and even though his reads are full of amazing brilliance, I feel they have a place here.

I’m liking the changes here with #newsteem but I feel a slight elitist mentality from lots of folks that I think could scare regular joes away.

By the way, I’m for the downvotes. I think I’m just a bit sensitive to this wave of “we need only quality content” which I’ve been seeing a lot of lately. Not that that has anything to do with this post really. Lol

I still had to upvote this, @anomadsoul, because it's a good writing on a relevant topic [...and because you are a comic book nerd]. I was dished about a dozen downvotes tonight, from three separate accounts. I'll admit, when I logged in to GinaBot on Discord, it took me back a little because it IS going to be a cultural shift for us. The instinct is to take it personally for most, but I'm happy with my content regardless of what it earns in rewards, so it was a process. All good. I'm looking forward to that $10 STEEM and if downvoting my posts gets us there, I'm all for it.

  ·  3 months ago (edited)

Shit, if downvoting you gets us to $10 Steem...I’m starting a revolution. #downwithkommie

  ·  2 months ago (edited)

Its called $10 steem and we get there by upvoting people not downvoting. Upvoting is how you get to randomly land on a rich person who ends up buying steem, like @gigafart who I upvoted so much he ended up buying like tens of thousands of dollars worth fo steem, cuz he had an actual job, and revealed himself as a real like dolphin and i have many otehr stories like this... when we concentrate on promoting steem rather than hah downvoting, and doings teemcleaners janitor work, we loose sightof teh GROWTh we MUSt have to sustain teh entire system.... steemit.com ccant be hosted if steem price gets too low, golos is still up because they cut costs, steemit can and will, i think tehy ne dto sunset steemit.,com and move itall to steempeak and everyone will be happy steemit can stop dumping steem and price can go back up.... i dont see hpow else this will turn out lolprice cant just go up because peopel start downvoting each otehr for using bid bots... all this does is make bid bot owners get pissed like fyrtsikken and otehrs, mayeb theyll power down and leaveif theyc ant even make a STEEM profit, god knwos theyve lost MILIONS in USD profit, and now THIS? lol its a joke. so much so i dont even correct the typos lol im laughing so hard its har dto typoe

but i am sending you 25 dogecoin as payment for my typos @blewitt
$withdraw 25 dogep blewitt

Hitler "downvoted" the jews

dont be like hitler

dont downvote

lolol ok sorry i know iknow that was a arsh joke, but im leaving that lol its morning now and we need comedy with these prices

oh btw are you noblewitness ? I noticed it comes up when i start writing ur name in discord it has noBLEWITness in it lol :D

You cant have $10 steem until @steem and @steemit find a way to save on that $600K + a month amazon bill, steemit incs rent is only $7ka month lol.... so that amazon bill has to be turned off cuz all theyre doing is selling steem, the website isnt profitable, they MUSt sunset steemit.com and forward all traffic to @steempeak and @busy and become just a background hands off, foundation, support the dapps, and just create steem infrastructure hire more hands, they need FULL TIME marketing TEAM and onboarding TEAM and infrastructure TEAM they need people hired to do the work IM stuck doing like getting steem on freakin scatter hahh i mean all we have is keychain ONE wallet for sending transactions with steem ista joke. @vessel maybe can do it but its not supported much anymore by jesta whose busy enough with @greymass so we cant blame him hes got a MUCH bigger project and vessel IS open source WE can work on it and hed push through pull requests if we did teh work on vessel, add steem engine tokens etc

I agree it needs to be normalised and I welcome it. I've been downvoted before HF and after and I don't mind. I'd like an answer why but I don't mind it. We should be allowed to disagree with our stake and thats something that was missing having a counter balancing measures.

At first, I thought DV's would be aimed at bid bot abusers which was the case and the circle jerkers/vote traders were now getting all the rewards but its nice to see them also getting called out on their bullshit. They've formed little communities where any post gets them 10 - 25 bucks and you can see the complacency set in.

We all owe it to the platform to reward the best the platform is producing and that's how we get more eyes and interest organically.

Those who don't like the new system, naturally will power down and leave and those who like it will power up and stay and become the foundation that moves this chain in the right direction

It comes with the free market and free-willed, self regulated community.
Think about it. Normalize downvotes

If and when Steem fixes the downvote system, then, maybe then I will do some down voting. Until then the Idea of Normalizing a broken system is unacceptable to me.

Know that in a self regulated community, there are highly influential people that can and will use their stake to do what they think is positive for the platform

If this is true then perhaps you can explain the continuing case of new 25 REP accounts that receive 15 SP delegated from Steem and have done nothing but troll and down vote people. These are not accounts of people that are Community Members. They do not participate in the Community, they do not comment, they do not post, they do not give upvotes, they only down vote, these accounts are well known, and very little of the delegated steem has been pulled from these accounts, and when it is pulled then another one pops up and continues the down vote marauding.

Normalizing a bad behavior is wrong. A blanket no explanation down vote is bad behavior and should not be nor be expected to be normalized. If a person feels strongly enough to down vote a post then they should be required to leave a comment with the down vote, even if it is an automated pre-formatted comment.

Fixing the down vote system would not be hard, but until that is done then you are advocating the normalization of Bad behavior. That is just my opinion.

It is fixed.

No the down vote is not fixed, not even by a long stretch of my imagination. Example:

  • @sospicy
  • Post Count 1 posts|0 comments|23 replies
  • Vote Count 1,580 votes|106 votes received
  • Voting CSI [ ? ] ( 0.00 % self, 0 upvotes, 0 accounts, last 7d )
  • Rewards tab: All Time 0.000 0.411
  • Delegator Amount Vesting Shares Delegation Time
    steem25 14.804 SP 0.029 MVests 2019-09-06, 08:28

downvotes.png

So NO it is not fixed. If it was fixed then people would be able to let this person know via comments and votes that their behavior is not acceptable by the community standards. Normalizing bad behavior is not fixing anything. This is only one of I don't know how many accounts of this nature you want their actions to be seen as Normal.

SO what is Fixed about the down vote? Being FREE? I really don't need to here about how it is not really a down vote by these type of people because it does no significant value/reputation damage to a person. When people come in and they get a meaningless bullshit down vote from a 12 year old miscreant man or woman child it does not look make Steem look good, especially when they are the enablers of the account.

The person holds stake and has RC credits and voting power. They are allowed to use it to express both upvotes and downvotes.

I call that fixed. They can not express more or less than they own.

srake rewards.jpg

There are no damages, just a lack of understanding on how the voting system works.

If you really want to believe that, and that is your opinion, then in your mind it is fixed.

His stake, in vest is :Vesting Shares 0.414 STEEM | 0.001 MVests
The rest is delegated by STEEM.

The lack of understanding is why a company, corporation, or business would continue to allow actions, (that they enabled), that harm them, and do nothing about it. The harm while to the individual is nothing to those looking in all they see are the red flags and that in some cases may be enough to deter them from ever even trying steem block chain.

But I am so glad you don't think it is fixed, but that you KNOW the down vote is FIXED. It is still my opinion that the down vote system is broken, and that the only FIX is in as fixing a boxing match where someone is paid to take a dive.

I can see your point of view as well.

I just know we can't control how people use their stake beyond trying to counter what we see as bad votes.

I hope that people will become less triggered by downvotes, if they don't accept them as part of the decentalized blockchain, I fear we will have to stop paying content creators at all.

There is just too much abuse and very little hope for consensus on a "fair" plan. The easest way to attempt fairness is to align it with stake.

I like that idea. Stop paying people for content. It’s my opinion that the quality of content would immediately improve if people created content because they wanted to share what they create instead of because they were looking to be paid for.
But what do I know. I’m just a dinosaur who never downvotes anything that isn’t malicious or evil. And who upvotes because he is impressed and grateful for what has been shared. Not because he wants to monetarily reward someone.
I don’t think it’s a great idea to pay for what people should want to give freely.
Should people be expect to be paid for sharing good advice with a friend? How about warning someone that they are mistaken about something. Should they expect to be paid?
If I smile and hold the door for someone should I expect a tip?
Told ya. I am a dinosaur.

Think of it like profit sharing.

On other platforms where people share because they want to, the money goes to marketing companies.

The idea here was to return rewards to quality creators, but some how that got twisted to "get paid to post" which is a bad expectation and will only disappoint more and more as time goes on.

I just know we can't control how people use their stake beyond trying to counter what we see as bad votes.

The problem is that you can not counter a bad down vote from these down vote only accounts.

I hope that people will become less triggered by downvotes,

As the government also hopes people will become less triggered by their bad actions?

At some point in time people are going to need to learn to just say no to accepting and normalizing bad behavior, whether it is on the part of the individual, group, corporation, or government.

By STEEM allowing their delegations to stand with those accounts they are guilty of enabling the bad behavior. Yes the account belongs to someone and they have stake and RC's and Vest, what they don't need is STEEM support for their actions, and by allowing the delegation to stay with the account they are saying *Hey it's okay, go ahead be an asshole down vote as many accounts as you like, make people look at us and see the truth of STEEM. You don't need to be a community member to come here and throw rocks at a Steemians door, just do it if it make you feel good." Is that the message STEEM wants people to see? Is that the perception that STEEM want people to have?

I hope people never become less triggered by downvotes.

When I said counter the vote, I meant to upvote content that is being suppressed by bad downvotes vs. downvoting the downvoter.

As for the rest of it, I'm sorting through idealistic and realistic. I do wish each user would curate responsibily, but I think if we are going to allow freedom and people to be free, that is also going to have to include less than Ideal behavior.

@anomadsoul,
Making ourselves as whales, due to this big market sale price and then testing downvotes and etc should be worthy! Coz every downvote might make a new enemy! Like you said, some shit posts are still at the trending after all these changes that happened recently!
!trdovoter 85

Cheers~

Congratulations @theguruasia, you are successfuly trended the post that shared by @anomadsoul!
@anomadsoul got 6 TRDO & @theguruasia got 4 TRDO!

"Call TRDO, Your Comment Worth Something!"

To view or trade TRDO go to steem-engine.com
Join TRDO Discord Channel or Join TRDO Web Site

Used my very first downvote on this post! Thanks dude!!

Here's another scenario,

Still many are getting downvoted because they don't have engagement on their post (let's not consider the use of bid bots for this case).
And now look at the very famous trending page, and tell me how many of those posts trending do have a satisfactory engagement as they are seeking from small players? You will get all the pictorial view of the condition I'm talking about.

Still, they are perfectly fine to be there because those posts are from big players themselves or upvoted by big players, same big players who regularly downvote others stating there's not enough engagement to support the reward, this amuses me the most. They simply overthrow their power but cannot be the change they seek from others. And nobody talks a single word about this...never.

This is how it is, and being a small fish we can only watch from the corner and release that frustration like I am doing now.LOL

Hey @katteasis , I hear you 👍....I think those who were done the hard work earlier and were in limelight due to continous engagement at discord community or by commenting are reaping the rewards now. And rightly so as even they were not aware of this new eco system. The whales know them and now they are supporting them.

I think those who were done the hard work earlier and were in limelight due to continuous engagement at discord community or by commenting are reaping the rewards now

Man, I had to check your profile when you said it just to know when you joined steem/steemit, and I got a feeling that maybe we are in the same boat. I joined in July 2017 and then started using it as one of my mainstream media since august of that year. It took me a month to decide if this platform is even legit.
Since then I have been using it and used to read most of the posts and the comments and engaging with other people. From what I've seen, about half the users on today's trending page(let's exclude bot users) is on trending page because they used to suck too much of whales' balls,unfortunately, I don't belong there since I'm not here to please anybody and don't care if they upvote or flag me. I always speak my mind. Being said that I don't claim I'm always right.....But one thing I want to make clear to the community is that I am not talking about myself I don't post any quality content myself and It has already been a year or more and I admit that. My ranting has not do anything about me or posts I make.

Oh that was a fun downvote ;)

I totally agree with your stance on downvotes! No reason for me to downvote your post.

The same here. ;)

I know why I received three downvotes on recent posts.

Because the page of the downvoter told me why.

They're angry at Steem and one whale in particular for downvoting them. So they're either doing it randomly or because I had a brief interaction in a comment thread with a whale and I'm vulnerably small enough for it to have an impact.

Perhaps many downvotes are legit and people should be self-reflective. But not all.

Posted using Partiko Android

We are just in the beginnings, it will take some time for some people to come to terms with the reality on STeem blockchain and the future it holds for all those who will stay and contribute value.
Great post!

Sorry. You will have to do worse than that to earn my downvote.

I like the new attitude, I'm just shocked it is happening faster than I've expected.

It may lead to short term sell pressure as large accounts that hate the change sell out, but hopefully most of them turn around as they see it happening to everyone to equalize the playing field.

I do wish everyone gives at least one comment to a user before a downvote especially if it isn't for obvious abuse to avoid the inevitable wtf post.

It may lead to short term sell pressure as large accounts that hate the change sell out

Good news!

Snowdon knows what’s up

I never thought on downvoting. I thought its useful when I see to hatefully post but I never saw. I got also a downvote because I promoted my post in a wrong discord channel. Is this also cool? I dont thing so. I would not allow to post anymore in my channel but I wouldn't downvote a user.

no post promotion should come with a profit

This is the only part I disagree with. What is the point of using a bidbot if you never get something back to put into the next promotion?

More importantly now with the 50/50 split.

Surely abuse of the bid bot should take precedence. If someone promotes an Actifit post into trending or a meme or basically short content meant for reward mining, that deserves downvotes.

A blanket judgment on bid bots should be avoided.

Posted using Partiko Android

You get the promotion and exposure from having your post trending!

And consider I said profit, I never said the author shouldn't get any steem back, just not more than what he paid for in the promotion process while using a bid bot

That could work post HF but I can almost guarantee that getting into trending is just a magnet for downvotes no matter how good the content is.

That essentially means promotion is not really worth losing Steem over.

I get where you are coming from, but downvoting bid bot content should not be that base line. 👍👍

Posted using Partiko Android

Thank you for working towards the culture change :)

Great post and therefore no downvoter for this one. Indeed we have to get used to the downvote idea, and yes I have complained about it in the recent past after some huge downvotes but I get the idea now and indeed it's a great way to stop the bid circles and crappy 100+ worth posts. Let's make it a healthier environment again.

¡Qué objetividad, honestidad y valentía tan grandes hay en este post! Realmente,yo he notado cómo cada vez se reparten "los temibles votos negativos", y confieso que es algo que me da terror recibirlo, y no creo que lo utilice ni en el peor de los casos.

Bendiciones de Dios, y muy buenos días.

I really believe that one way to encourage the downvote acceptance is to give it as prominent a button on the front ends as the upvote button. On Steempeak I needed to go searching for it.
I still use them sparingly, mainly where abuses are obvious and explain the reason with a comment.
I will not downvote this post as I think it brings a value to Steem.

Agreed, they happen they should happen, in fact I've thanked a few people for the downvotes I've gotten.

yes you have

Thanks for this comment, finally I found someone to downvote without worrying the downvote back.
And hope you won't send me in your "downvote suggestion list" after this or come with other alt accounts.
Thanks again.

Tzahaha😂😂😂

Posted using Partiko Android

Haha.. I'm with you.

No, I think downvoting makes steem work better.

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  ·  3 months ago Reveal Comment

I have never downvotec another steemian, nor do I ever intend to. Stealing someone else's rewards with a downvote is immoral, it is theft. Downvoting because I disagree, is to refuse to keep an open mind and trying to shut someone else down. Downvoting because I don't like someone's content, is petty. I don't think it's right. And if there is abuse, steem cleaners exist for that. Downvoting is immoral and harmful to others. It's not just a dislike, it's taking their rewards and affecting their reputation. That is why it's immoral.

Posted using Partiko Android

I would argue it is a good thing to do when they are stealing from reward pool with stolen (plagiarised) posts and bidbotting shitposts .. also immoral. Its simply saying what behaviour you would like to see in the steem world. Xxx

Perhaps in those situations, but those who do to because they can, not for plagiarism or shitposting, that's immoral too. So do we let bad content exist or do we let peole downvote for the wrong reasons?

Posted using Partiko Android

We dont let either happen. People are doing good jobs downvoting trolls and scammers out of existance because of HF. And token farming. Bad content is subjective... I mostly scroll past it for that reason.

Posted using Partiko Android

It's reassuring to know that there are those who do as you do, you respect others and their content and look out for them.

Posted using Partiko Android

I did a love downvote <3 I'm really hoping many people will start downvoting, posts like this do really help get the word out. Many are shy still. I'm trying to do my downvotes each day, mostly on bidbotted content and especially on those sneaky ones that do it after 4 days (so it's clearly not about visibility :D)

All I ask is if someone dv please give an explanation. Even if it's a dumb reason like "I don't like you", at least then I'll know what's in your head!

Posted using Partiko Android

My question to you is:

What economic model have you used/consulted that proved to you that it is better to "spread the wealth" in terms of votes vs. say people getting rewarded based on their purchased (or earned) stake?

Because from where I am standing, it makes a lot more sense that being rewarded based on your stake would create more upward pressure on the price of steem vs. the alternative of "spreading the wealth" in terms of voting on new and/or different users based on some arbitrary definition of "quality".

The second option seems like it would encourage people to show up, post for free, get some earnings and cash out those earnings. Not much incentive to power up (beyond some curation rewards) compared to the other incentive, where there is a direct correlation between the more steem you buy the more you earn.

I'd be curious to see what the economic theory is behind this line of thinking.

The number one goal here should be to create as much demand as possible for steem power, everything else should be a distant and far second.

i was gunna down vote this post to wreck the autovoters, change my mind last minute lol

One way to mess with autovoters (but not that much) is to, from time to time, decline rewards on our posts :P I do it at least once a month haha

As I mentioned to @hungryharish, look at the tag #appics, and trending, there's several > $10 posts in there. Is a single picture and 6 words worth this? Maybe I'm just a 'wordy' writer...

I don't think there's anything wrong with using Appics, the problem comes when an appics post gets a lot of rewards. The flags are not happening because people use Appics but because they bid bot low quality shit posted from Appics... I get you, I prefer wordy posts over nice pics :P

Me too. I dont mind Appics but at least put some words on it and dont token farm with it. Or bidbot it. Or upvote it. Lol.

Just last night (my time), I was meditating on this very issue.

I copped a number of dv's yesterday and it appeared to me because it was I voted and commented on someone else's post that they have a beef with. The account started following me, and I thought, 'great, does that mean I'm just now on some automatic dv-bot?!'

But looking at the actual effect of the dv was meaningless. It hardly made a dent in value terms; but it was the feeling of being targetted, rather than a value judgement of my content, that bothered me. So I sat with that... and realised I don't actually care. There is nothing it actually does that has any significance in the real world.

In the Steem world, yes; but not in the real world. I too see Steem as a cybernetic, self-governing organism. This is the process of homeostasis... understanding this is when I changed my views on flagging.

Yes, there are going to be 'free radicals' in the system... but nothing an anti-oxidant can't handle!!
😊🙏🏽☯️

Hay muchos usuarios que no quieren avanzar en la red, al principio acepto que pensé que el downvote sería algo malo, pero con el paso de los días veo con más claridad que es algo bueno, las únicas personas que se deberían de preocupar por recibir los deberían de ser los que hacen un mal uso de la red, pero un usuario que hace bien su función no debería de temer a algo, incluso si recibes un downvote de vez en cuando, como con los bots que dan flags a post en spanish, dice el dicho que si los perros ladran, es porque vas pasando... Y es cierto, así que, a darle sin preocupaciones, saludos.

  ·  3 months ago (edited)

i hope you don't mind, i took your invitation to downvote as an opportuniy to see if we can upvote AND downvote same post, seems to work, no offense :-)

EDIT: My 100% upvote got automatically canceled by doing a 5% downvote, sorry about that, lol :-)

No offense taken man! We all learn something everyday. Good to know, I didn't know they cancelled each other and the newest one was the one surviving :. Good too hear from you!

Congratulations @theguruasia, 85% upvote has been shared with your successful call on the post that shared by @anomadsoul!


Support @trendotoken projects by delegating : 100SP , 200SP , 500SP , 1000SP , 2000SP

The Normalization of downvotes | Read this post, then downvote it

In fact, if you're still reading this, please downvote my content. Feel free to do it, I won't retaliate and perhaps it will be a good excercise for you, to get used to hand out downvotes without feeling guilty or scared of the consecquences.

Ok, alright, your insistence has convinced me. I've been 'shyly' obedient!! ;p

Edit:

Hell, even if you think I'm a good guy creating good content, downvote this post. Let's normalize downvotes.

Well done @anomadsoul. Your slick maneuver through @ocdb has been a true piece of art. :D

  ·  3 months ago (edited)

I was flagging before it was cool ;) I just felt that abuse had to be addressed, but could not make a huge difference. It's good to see the big accounts doing their part now and it's working. I see both Bernie and Haejin have been persuaded to change their ways. That's a lot of SP that can be used for good and they still earn from curation. I think @trafalgar played a part in both conversions.

New Steem still has issues, but it is looking better.

I downvoted this as suggested. Looks like you will do okay anyway.

Hmm most people seem to have an issue with pressing the button!

I’ve always found it odd how short term some accounts have been when it comes to profit. It’s 13 weeks to power down that should have been the first sign for newer people who show up and power up to play their reindeer games. That this platform is anything but quick get 100000% returns in 24 hours.

Frankly in the long term I hope to build myself out in a way where the reward pool is just a fraction of the potential my content can bring in. I sadly have a feeling for many they only see Steem for the reward pool and not the opportunity to build up with it.

You can kind of see that when they get hit by no nothing flags that will never add up to a cent lost and start acting like the world is coming to an end demanding blood. They are going have a hard time if they ever become somewhat popular and have to deal with the abuse content creator face publicly by some not so nice people in this world. That goes far beyond what a flag can do alone.

I just gave a few downvotes, it felt good. I do not have a lot of Steem Power though. Yesterday I made a post and got a downvote because I used some DEC to buy a vote from SteemMonsters, at the end of the day the downvote didn't affect me a lot but I learned my lesson. And you are right, a post promotion should not have a revenue or ROI.

And I think that the downvote attracted other votes of users with good power in Tokens, someone with 250k Neoxian gave me a 20% vote, so I'm not that mad ;). I will not buy votes that big anymore and I will make better posts.

!giphy popcorn

Posted using Partiko iOS



// You can support giphy by using one of your witness votes on untersatz! //

@matt-a a true steemian who understands value and is the only cool one left lol

the circle jerk of steemians blocking bid bot users is driving the march to golos levels below 1 penny and when all bid bot owners have left steem, lolit will be so sad..