Some info about my activity and my stance on flags

in blog •  2 years ago 

Hey everyone!

Thought it was about time I wrote a little bit about my activity here on Steem seeing all these new users join lately and follow. There's also been some drama lately about flags, like usual. We get it, everyone hates flags. Mainly due to the way they are imported onto the front-end and people getting used to using them only on plagiarism and abuse. Weirdly though many seem to not realize that "disagreement on rewards" is one of the highest reasons to flags. There's been a lot of talks to change the way flags work, some have suggested to use them as downvotes instead next to the upvote button. Maybe even give them their own daily voting power or curation rewards so more users are incentivized to flag/downvote as it right now costs the flagger potential curation rewards to flag.

In a recent example there was a new user who has started receiving a lot of votes from a new unknown whale account - unknown due to its inactivity from before. The frequent poster started seeing huge rewards and like many authors tend to do - especially those getting autovotes - they get used to the income quickly. Especially now with SBD still being way overpriced they become even more sensitive to flags. Essentially it's an issue because the authors see the rewards and often don't understand how the platform works exactly. I'm not going to go into if the author's content deserves the rewards or not as all of that depends on the eye of the beholder. Bear in mind though that it costs the flagger to flag these down, and most of the time the only people benefitting from these flags are the rest of the authors on the platform. Why? Because the reward pool gives out a certain amount of SBD and Steem per day which means we all share those rewards. Steem Power helps us allocate the rewards of the reward pool to authors and we get rewarded for that through curation.

As many have stated before though, if you can accept all the upvotes - you have to be able to accept the downvotes/flags as well. Especially the flags as they are disincentivized from normal upvotes. The main reason that people get so riled up about them is due to the author being the one taking it personally and then their fanbase follows. There's been so many instances, even from friends of mine who I often chat with, where the author got so offended from a flag or two that they overreact on it. Demand answers, write rant posts and then their followers also get riled up about it as well and it creates so much unnecessary drama. Especially if the authors take it so personal that they on purpose start telling their followers to demand that the flags be removed or not cast, to followers who most of the time start more drama in comments and as someone who's been around Steem and knows how the platform works is very disappointing to read knowing they know so little about everything here as they are that new.

I just want to tell anyone here reading, that please. Do not take flags personally if they are cast due to disagreement of rewards. If they are cast for other reasons, there are plenty of support groups that will help you out or you can make posts about it asking for help or question why it is happening - I bet many users that happen to read them and can counter them will vote you up if you have been flagged unfairly. For the longest time that I've been here though I've almost never seen minnows who don't make overly huge rewards get flagged due to disagreement in rewards.

I also wanted to talk about my own position I am in right now as a high earner on Steem.

For many newcomer followers and others who might stumble upon my posts it may seem like I am being overly rewarded and that's a fair assumption. I do also get flagged from time to time and I have no problem with that, if older users feel my posts are getting too much rewards than that's their prerogative. Remember that anyone can use their SP as they want - but they also have to accept how the rest of the community acts on their use of their SP.

What many newcomers may not know though is that many of us older users here spend a lot of time outside of the platform. Now I don't want to make an excuse to my high rewards, but it is a factor which I believe many other high influence voters know about and that might be why they more often than not decide not to flag.

I am someone who has spent most of their time the last year and a half on this platform because like many others we saw the potential and knew how powerful it was. Even when prices were going down from $4 to 7 cents, we stuck around and built. I spent so much time trying to market the platform on my own that for a long time I didn't even post and earned that cheap Steem Power at the time to build up my own account. I focused on curation and commenting which were barely rewarded at the time just cause I knew it was the best way I could keep the platform active and make authors feel appreciated for the work they were putting towards a platform that at the time seemed like it was dying.

There is a lot of history that many newcomers may not see and judge prematurely when accusing someone of making too much rewards, or in the example from above when they start lashing out on the flaggers and calling them names and this and that without knowing their history and what they have done for the platform. I don't expect all newcomers to look through the history and ask around others what each and every account they interact with on the platform have done in the past before interacting with them, but judging people just cause they are flagging your favorite authors is not a good way to go.

I don't want to make this too long, but yes, SBD is crazy at the moment. Like I have said in the past I won't judge people for posting more frequently right now and I've been trying to do that myself as well while holding back at the same time to let others earn rewards too and curate accordingly. I realize it's a lot of value that we are earning from rewards right now but I also realize how much we can do with these rewards for the future of the platform. It saddens me often to see many other authors only take and take while getting voted up by autovoters and posting 5-10x more than they would have when SBD was down to $1. It's even more sad to see them not power any of it up even though it's obvious that the price of Steem is still so undervalued and they'd gain more by buying Steem with the SBD. The worst part is seeing them spend most of their limited voting power only on themselves and not even reward commenters that are keeping their blogposts from looking like graveyards with full of cash in them. Some of these users are one of my main encouragements to post more actively and take a bigger piece of the reward pool knowing I will invest most of it back onto the platform and keep curating for a long time as I have even when I had 100x less SP to curate with.

I wish that more curators would look around a bit when casting their votes. Sure most users have deserved them and should make the most out of the insane price of SBD right now, but you don't have to be a genius to realize that someone who's constantly powering down and posting 10x a day while selling all SBD is doing nothing but siphon rewards from the platform. Now if you think of these examples, wouldn't you want some of those users to get flagged so that the rest of the platform receives more rewards?

Anyway, feel free to let me know your thoughts and how you see these things unfolding. There's so much happening lately with all the new users and increasing activity it's really hard to catch up with everything even as a curator who tries to spread his voting power as wide as possible.

I'm going to try and post a bit more this week before @ocd is back and curating again to make the most out of these rewards to be able to power up my account more and be able to delegate more SP to new curators that join the project.

Thanks for reading.

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That phrase: "If you accept votes, you should accept flags".

I agree 100% on the stance about rewarding users who plan on powering up and keep the flow going instead of those cashing out... rewarding people who are committed to Steemit is what we should be doing.

Personally, I have NEVER had to down vote anybody. However, there was an instance yesterday I did.

AS being somebody on this platform that I feel could help the smaller minnows, I post daily, a blog stating that I am willing to offer such help for a marginal fee. Well, I suppose this user knew about down voting but didn't have any SP (as it was a new account), yet they down voted my post. It didn't affect me at all in regards to my payout but the user stated it was in regard to fair distribution of the reward pool assuming that I am taking a huge percentage of it? But in retaliation, I down voted the only post he had a formidable payout on and completely wiped it out for them.

Upon realizing that the actions I took were not in any way acceptable to do, as it was a form of retaliation, today I went back to the users profile and removed the down vote so he could get his payout.

I felt bad for what I did and didn't want to destroy the perception of this person in regards to Steem. This platform has great potential and personally I would like this user to benefit from what I have to offer by my up votes.

I don't want to be mad at them for some dumb reason and I don't want them to quit because they're not getting what they want right away. IT is something that you have to work at and for to gain anything out of it.

Remind me to not get you mad. Thanks for being fair to the red fishes. We red fishes have a lot to learn being etiquette on steemit. Thanks.

That's a very conscious realization and correction action! Awesome!

You are a great person, the beautiful thing is that you corrected thinking about the other.

Thanks for being an awesome Steemian!

Thank you for the notion. I believe in the greater good of people and I know that if there is a change I wish to see... I can be that change. And ultimately the experience most likely isnt good marketing for Steem. But I hope that I can help this person grow. As well as all my other followers.

It gives me pride knowing I helped many ideas flourish and gain the recognition they deserve.

Following @sreepyeldarb

@acidyo,
I really love your point. Someone once flagged my post just after 30 minutes of me posting it on steemit. When I had received 2 upvotes and made $0.04 and was hoping for more this guy 'with 700SP flagged me and as a result my payout got reduced to 0 and my post became potentially useless and invisible to others. I couldnt understand how and why he did that. There was no reason fo that.
Is this even fair? I mean I get that he has more Steem Power, hence more control over posts but IS THIS HOW FLAGGING SOMEONE SHOULD WORK ? SHOULDN'T IT TAKE MORE FLAGS THAN UPVOTES TO HAVE SOMEONE'S POST DOWN RATHER THAN ONE PERSON DOMINATING THE SHOW ?
This scenario can occur often and may result in domination of such guys over the steemit network making steemit week as otherwise new steemians like me are going to loose faith in the system hence the currency itself. Thank you.

SHOULDN'T IT TAKE MORE FLAGS THAN UPVOTES TO HAVE SOMEONE'S POST DOWN RATHER THAN ONE PERSON DOMINATING THE SHOW

That's how it works here, a vote is only worth what the user's SP is. If this wasn't that way we'd see a lot more fake activity like on Reddit where 1 vote equals 1 vote which means there are shady services that people can buy 1000 votes on and pretend 1000 unique users have voted on a post.

But yeah, there's going to be all sorts of activity on a decentralized platform. My best advice is to let go and look forward to writing more posts and connect with likeminded people that appreciated reading your content.

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Yeah, seeing this topic has been coming up A LOT lately, it's certainly been informative to learn what the flagging system is designed to do and I agree with it whole-heartedly in principal. That said, as a very small fish the fact that you stand a good chance of getting your content squashed just for excercising that option means that the majority of minnows are never going to flag anything so the system doesn't really get integrated at the lower levels.

Hence the whole freak out when it actually starts being used. For the time being I guess it remains a way for bigger players to 'voice their displeasure'

I have not been flagged before so I really don't know the feeling but I know I won't be happy if someone reduces my payout. Flagging of posts should be an action that goes through a process and not as Instant as an upvote because they should be valid reasons why another blogger will want to flag another's post. That's my opinion on this, so people don't make flagging an act of retaliation.

Very informative post @acidyo

so people don't make flagging an act of retaliation.

Yeah, that's the worst kind of flagging and I really hate seeing that happen... A user with 1000 sp flagged a big user once and he went and flagged all the active posts of that minnow with like 100k sp..

What can you do. Right now there are not a lot of high SP users but with time and more eyes I'm sure things will get countered on a more fair basis in general and abusive flaggers will have a harder time while ruining their reputation.

That was really thought provoking. There are a lot of things to learn on this platform and even after 4 months of using it almost daily I still learn new things. Like the reasoning behind flagging, for example, was totally new to me. Imagine for a new user how alien these concepts might sound.
My humble opinion is that a video series + a written series describing in depth how the platform works would be hugely beneficial for new users and easy to point them to it.
Regarding SBD, I'm powering up everything I can possibly get my hands on, and I'm waiting for a dip in steem price so I can buy some more.
Cheers man!

Imagine for a new user how alien these concepts might sound.

Yeah a day or so ago I was talking to another "older" steemian about how much we've used the site and maybe come to a point where we can't even understand how difficult it must be for newcomers to grasp it.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

@calatorulmiop : I was just listening to Minnow University, a show on @mspwaves (i think thats their tag?), and it sounds like they are getting ready to do just this. I agree with you that it would be wonderful especially for visual learners like me. If you dont know what I am talking about (or for new minnows reading this who may not have heard of it) MSP is the Minnow Support Project, and MSP Waves is their radio show on their Discord server. I don’t really know how to invite you to it though , lol, so just start-a-searchin’ in the search box! Ps @acidyo I have been here about three weeks and found your post very helpful and illuminating. I had no idea about the way flags worked exactly, either. And yes, the learning curve is steep, but I honestly find that part of the intrigue, too. I know that makes it harder for mass-appeal, but its kinda fun for researchy nerds like me . :) So I would never want it to be TOO easy. I think that the laberinthian quality is partly one of the strengths of Steemit.

The basics should be as easy as possible because we want as many people here as we can get. Also it's nice that someone is working on "tutorial" for new users.

I agree! I guess I was just speaking to the way exploration and discovery are a part of the ride here. I think the 101 entry level of Steemit could be vastly improved. I am just nerdy enough to have not been deterred by it. But I am planning to bring a bunch of people to the platform, and so far the best way I can think of to do it is to offer in-person meetups and trainings to help them get over that initial curve. Not everyone has that motivation to soak up so many details to gain access. So yes I understand!

I think flagging for disagreement of rewards is a bit of a two sided coin, as it can be used in a fair way depending on the situation. But, I think there's a lot of room for abuse there which I've seen in the past on here. I had a friend who writes stories on here which are excellent quality that he must put massive amounts of time into considering how many chapters he releases with them being thousands of words each. A whale got into a disagreement with him and flagged all of his posts for about a week so he was getting $0 for pretty much everything.

So, I'm really on the fence about how I feel on flagging users. Right now, I really only do it to spam comments. There are other times where if I see someone stealing content or plagiarizing it and they're making a big reward that I'll flag as well, and I think that is also fine. The system just needs some fine tuning to help alleviate the instances of abuse and I think it would be good to go.

that's a good example, the whale flagging the writer down regardless of the content. i've seen so much garbage content come through here (legitimately just copied and pasted from other sites or it's just a link to another site without any commentary) get high rewards while other users who create original content (or at least obviously create their own commentary) get dick for rewards. it's frustrating and it's part of the reason the site has lost its charm to me. great idea in concept, but like every other good thing, easily swayed and ruined by the greed or pettiness of others.

There is steamcleaners. You or anyone can turn to them and ask for help when you feel you have been targeted for total annihilation, or you feel they are retaliating against you, or if a reward dispute and their idea is not reward for you, they can, have and do take care of those situation and more. They are like steemit's little angels for a lot of rough times. And they do have enough power to fix things, and if they need more help, they can turn to @ned for additional help. I have yet to see a case where they did not have the ability (SP Power) to help someone.

Thanks for letting me know about that! I thought that account was specifically for trying to get rid of spam and plagiarism and that was it, so it's nice to know that they're around in case I ever have an issue in the future I know I have somewhere to turn to.

Somehow or other they sometimes have access to or a lot of pull with the adm account, and that can squash a lot of accounts. Yes They do handle excessive downvote of rewards issues also. I do not agree with everything they do, but they really are helpful in situations that are difficult to deal with otherwise. Through chat or their online fill-out form. and they will respond back, at least they did to myself and four others I sent their way to get issues resolved.

A whale got into a disagreement with him and flagged all of his posts for about a week so he was getting $0 for pretty much everything.

Yep, that's abuse and should be countered.

Yeah, but how can you counter it when it's one of the biggest users on the site exactly? When someone has voting power of 350-400k Steem it just kinda seems impossible to fight back against, even if you try asking other big users for help as most of them really probably couldn't give a shit.

@freezepeach will counter abusive flags to the best of their abilities.

It's what they do. It's all they do.

That's decentralization I guess.

What he's saying is that if you get flagged just smoke crack cocaine. That's the only solution, kids.

No.

Fine! I'll just get my own crack! With hookers, and blackjack!

I don't even know why you bothered replying to this, I just felt like writing something ridiculous, lol.

But it have to be noticed, that even with some posts getting to 0, he still gets a pretty good reward.

Last time i checked, i his 9-10 days (dont remember wich one a checked) ago posts, he had some 0 posts, but still were able to get around 320,00 on rewards.

The other days he probably still get a pretty good amount, because 10 posts a day with $200,00 seems pretty hard to zero his total daily reward.

That's insane! I think this whale should give money back to the writer! We need a new function on Steemit- to ban for a week or two from posting. So people like that will think twice before to donw vote someone unfairly!

The whale rarely posts. He makes his money from selling votes, and self votes.

Can't hardly flag him. He comments sometimes, and that's an attack vector, but he's actually in a flagwar right now, and it's not stopping him.

I know. He's been flagging me too.

LOL

I don't care. It does me no harm, because I can't spend Steem. I just use it to upvote others.

=D

There is so many shit content. My flags do nothing.(( They are powerless. You are good or you are bad, you won't get problems from one upvote.

I find it hard not to take a downvote personally. In the strictest measure of the term, some is "judging" me and telling me that no only do they disagree with my post (which could easily be done by leaving a comment), but they are taking the extra step to "punish" me.

I have also been the victim of malicious down-voting. There was some poor chap who took offense that I had made derogatory statements toward Bitconnect, and proceeded to downvote all of my posts for an entire week. Fortunately he was less than a minnow so it had no effect, but had he been a dolphin or a whale, he could have made my life on Steem pure misery.

To say someone should not take it personally is easier said than done.

The worst part is seeing them spend most of their limited voting power only on themselves and not even reward commenters that are keeping their blogposts from looking like graveyards with full of cash in them.

Totally agree. I've seen a lot of shitposts from big-big-big fish. No quality, no communication with people that leave some thoughts under the post - just quantity and self votes... This is not the approach that can help Steemit to grow.

I am still newbie who is learning, so I did not know what is this "flag war" all about. Learn a lot from your post. Free market in the end determine the prices, although I believe that posts like "hate speech" should be flagged. Just my 2 cent opinion.

Its a free market so people are free to use the votes however they want to use it. Everything that the system allows is fair.

Just because something is allowed doesn't make it fair.

Here's the author rewards from just before HF19.

authorrewardchart.png

It's allowed, but it's not fair.

What's worse, is that is discourages folks who are not one of the 39 whales from contributing.

2017-11-24-LevelShares-EN.png

Just like the courts, legal =/= just.

@acidyo Hey man, what's been up? Thank you for addressing the current platform issues! I hope this whole flagging thing comes to an end. I mean I do get the concept of flagging and how it should be used to protect the platform and make sure it is being used properly. It certainly belongs to the rules and terms of use, I meant to say I wish all this negativity can just fade away.

I mean it's absolutely healthy to have controversial discussions and different views, but I'm sure we could find a way to sort our differences out in a positive, polite and productive manner.

Concerning SBD, I'm watching its price getting lower but it's still high enough! Do you think this will persist? I made a story about how we can help push Steem to the moon as individual users and I definitely did mention curation ethics from my humble point of view!

Take care!

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

Hello I'm quite new here and haven't grasp the whole concept 100% yet. Reading this post gives me a clear idea that we are facing with dilemmas among members of this community either new members, minnows, senior members, including whales. The FLAG option here seems to be very vulnerable, destructive but can also be a very usefull tool . It will be good idea to regulate the use of this option by all members regardless of the status. For example, if someone wants to flag somebody as he clicks the flag option the system will automatically post up a designated blog where all members can vote on that flag item lets say within 1 month or so. The votes then decide the validity of the flag action. A win vote will be rewarded and a lost vote will be face a penalty. In this way democratization will play its role in ensuring fairness and prevent misuse.

Just sharing an idea, I'm no IT or a computer expert, nontheless if this can be enforced into the system, may resolve some underlying problems.

Thank you for reading this and looking forward for improvement.
Wishing all steemians an abundant, happy and prosperous 2018

We are Many but One

Well said @acidyo! The early adopters that hung in there and believed in the platform truly deserve to have the extra rewards now. I am sure that people will not flag others for no reason and I think this flagging will encourage only quality and filter out all of the junk.

By the way, I have written a small post about Steem and how I think it will go up to a $1000. Did you get a chance to check it out? I mentioned some key facts from the white papers on how the inflation rate will be eventually less than 1% a year and I have also mentioned how the steem blockchain currently has the most activity (over 1 million transactions in 24 hours) than any other blockchain. I am sure it is nothing new to you but for all the newbies it might be useful :)

lol checked it out just now before I saw this comment. :D

You're awesome man! Love ya :)

I read your post, too.

I think it would be important to develop the front end. It works now but Facebook's is completely superior in every way. They've had massive amounts of money to throw at it for a long time, though.

Marketing and reward distribution are other things that deserve a serious look. With a more equitable reward distribution, it could be easier to get more people on board and keep more of the people who join.

Also, developing easy to use basic financial services on top of the blockchain is another important area. Smart contracts? I know of only three people in my city (Lahti, Southern Finland, 118,000 inhabitants) who have ever had a Steem account. At least a third of the population has Facebook accounts. As a way to pay for coffee, forget about Bitcoin and nearly any other cryptocurrency. But STEEM could work perfectly. After a critical threshold of user density in a local area, STEEM could well function as a payment system in stores or between individuals. Would it make practical sense for a large group of users in some densely populated locality to create community like this? If if worked, it could attract media attention.

Yea, those are some good ideas. Steem does have a lot of work to do to. We need to do funding projects so that we can support developers in improving the platform.

I admit i lost interest in steemit until the recent spike in price for steem and sbd

I wish that more curators would look around a bit when casting their votes. Sure most users have deserved them and should make the most out of the insane price of SBD right now, but you don't have to be a genius to realize that someone who's constantly powering down and posting 10x a day while selling all SBD is doing nothing but siphon rewards from the platform. Now if you think of these examples, wouldn't you want some of those users to get flagged so that the rest of the platform receives more rewards?

I want to touch this point, but you seem to have gone too far in a certain direction, that only "giving steem back to the platform" is giving to the platform's growth.

If you make good content, you're also creating value for the system, and more reason for users to spend time on it and engage with others here, and also examples of what good content looks like for them to make.

And then they use the rewards they earned outside the system, and that's fine.

Expecting users to give to the system twice, both in giving it all of their content and not getting payment out of it is, in my opinion, misguided. You can laud those who do that as their values align more closely with your own, but actively casting shade on those who don't is not the right direction.

Now, if you neither create content nor help the economy, that may be another issue, but in the above quote you're specifically talking about people whose content is worthy of curators' love.

Only practice can increase activity.

LOL i have been following your flags and mostly when you meant flag you actually upvote the post of the person where the spammer is.

Nice and good work for helping people out!

By the way there is this one time where i thought he/she is good person named @miti
but when ever i visit someones post 3/10, miti just slams the entire post with anti-spam comments and when i meant slam i meant fills the entire post with spam comments that are supposedly has the purpose to combat spammers.

here check this talk between me and miti
https://steemit.com/steemit/@miti/my-commitment-to-making-steemit-a-place-free-from-spammers-part-3

by the way, Hi @miti sorry but i think you should consider sometimes cause the FAQ of steemit explicitly states that you are not allowed to comment off the topic comments.

such example
if the topic is why is bitcoin so high?
miti: my comment is anti-spam

and miti commented several times at the same post on multiple post and only upvoting the post sometimes, on which he/she ravaged with spam comments that contain anti-spam purposes

I will not put any website's or pics on where miti has done the ravaging cause ill led this comment to be kind of off-topic and ill make it too long if i put pics plus you cant zoom on pictures

but i think you already know about miti and how it works.
by the way i think the anti-spammer program is just a big waste of money and time and i think people just use this to earn money LEGALLY! so they say!

BUT based on his/her recent anti spam comments she has taken things better now!

dont take this as me hating on miti just take this as a past problem

Hope dont hate me miti!

I don't hate you, I only think you told a lot of lias.

by the way, Hi @miti sorry but i think you should consider sometimes cause the FAQ of steemit explicitly states that you are not allowed to comment off the topic comments.

such example
if the topic is why is bitcoin so high?
miti: my comment is anti-spam

you get confused about what is a post and what is a comment.
I don't comment post but i reply to a spam comment.

BUT based on his/her recent anti spam comments she has taken things better now!

I don't think so... I'm moving forwards and growing while you stood by and watched other users growing.

I wouldn't flag anybody, because if I don't like someone's posts - I just ignore them. There is just a few cases where I would flag and report to whales or other steemians: child abusing stuff, radical racism posts, drastical hate posts...

Thanks man for posting this

This sums up everything that should be said. I am new to this platform and I don't claim that I completely understand how it works. But seeing this made me slowly grasp the concept of flagging, in an objective and proper way. With all those unnecessary drama that were happening, I feel like I was lost in limbo as all are taking their sides without properly explaining why they chose that side.

What I see in this post is the move to put newcomers in their right place. It's a bold move, but properly backed with the right arguments. It only shows that you @acidyo, has been here in the platform long enough that you gained the wisdom on how the platform should be steered towards the right direction.

I have been observing and following the drama that unfolded lately because I want to be equipped with the right knowledge on how to deal things like this in the future. I take it like a case study. But what I observed were all the hates and rants and most of them were coming from less than 60 rep. I am not generalizing that all of them were new; however, if I am to judge, they must be new to the platform. What's worse is that they are so sure about their conviction. This is where the problem arises. When we are so sure about our conviction without proper argument, tend to rely on our emotion. This is a faulty argument - appeal to emotion, I think.

Now that the foundation of the argument has been properly laid, I hope that people (newcomers or not), will take this case as an example of what might happen in the future. This is a democratic platform after all. You have your right, but you should consider the right of others also. I hope mutual respect will be achieved.

Thank you!

The flag things really need to change. Just one person with more voting power than you can make your account DEAD! I strongly condemn this system.

Wow. This flagging thing is serious. I really wouldn't want to feel what it is like.

I have been looking for this post since. Thanks @acidyo. Resteemed!

@acidyo Keep on inspiring minnows like me to succeed on this platform. More power to you!

I would have upvoted you because I fully agree with your point of siphoning the reward pool some people do, but just as of today I decided to only upvote a specific poster once per day.

This is my way to contributing to a more fair and balanced reward payout at the end of the week to all users of the Steemit platform who create quality content, but are buried under the spam of the high-earning whales.

@maticpecovnik! indeed, you are a good man. may be tomorrow will be my turn. Thanks for the liberation

Thanks for such an honest and sensible post. I am a photographer who is new to the platform (two weeks) and don't see the high rewards some people are getting as a negative. I have spent years building up following on other platforms and have 80k people following my work. It takes years to build such a following and moving to a new platform you want to see the early adopters being rewarded as that provides some hope that hard work and loyalty is rewarded. As for the high SBD I think its great for the platform as it has attracted original content providers like myself to the platform in the hope of a new business model. In the end good content will rise to the top; all else being equal. Thanks again. Rob

Which is why witnesses should be double checking if flags and rewards are fair from a moral standpoint. Aka checking if a reward is the cause of autovotes, or a flag is the cause of disagreement rather than breaking the rules.

Thank you for this kind and useful post.

hi @acidyo thanks for sharing i'm also new to here this platform and i hope you will help me how to work on this platform and how to do upvotes to each other so i'm looking forward to your nice response

Thank You best regrads @waqarsabir786

Thanks for your post,personally I believe we all should live and let others live too. I have been on the platform for about 3 weeks and honestly I get inspired when I see you all earn on your post,it just shows me over time efforts has been put in so nothing wrong in reaping the rewards. I believe it is wrong for newbies to have a sense of entitlement without putting in the work. I might be naive though but that's what I think. People have lives outside the platform so it's fool hardy to expect anyone to spend time overhere 24/7.

its kind of funny, alot of the people that liked old diablo, are saying diablo looks like a girl or gay, but from the point of view of someone whos never seen or played diablo before, he looks like the xenomorphs from aliens, and noone has ever said they looked lame. maybe not like old diablo, but still an awesome spikey horror imo. @acidyo

At first I always said I was never going to comment on any post that houses the word flag as it draws too much attention and sometimes begins hate cause of different views but reading your work and your reasons behind it, well I would say flag seems somewhat okay now and been flag does not mean you did anything wrong but rather, from another user perspective it seems wrong and truly the holder of steempower has every right to do with it, whatever he/she sees fit.

I will invest most of it back onto the platform and keep curating for a long time as I have even when I had 100x less SP to curate with.

and thanks for this, the community truly appreciates your effort

You want upvotes if you‘re post is good, so don’t complain if your shitty post gets flagged.
Flags can be good for a right balance if they get not abused.
As much on the Blockchain the people are free to do what they want.
It‘s based on trust.
So the people have to take responsibility and use the opportunity of the freedom which we don’t have on Facebook etc. To develop the platform to the right direction.
So everything is Fine, not bad at all.

I agree but recently, I have seen one owner of a bot (wouldn’t name the bot) flagging a post of an author who wrote some facts about his bot functionality and wrote that this bot isn’t profitable. The owner in return started flagging all the posts of the author and I got frightened too. It means there is no freemdom of speech here!
What’s your thought? I am seeing randowhale flagging a lot of posts and comments, don’t know the reason though!

He states the reason: to return rewards to the pool.

What he doesn't state is that he is one of 39 whales that take almost all rewards from that pool, and he egregiously self-votes and sells votes to get that profit. He posts very little, and self-votes all his posts and comments.

That's why.

life is like this . there is up and down. it feel like people can't accept it when a few people not happy with them. well......the fact is there will always be a few people not happy with you. Take youtube video for example , you will find some video is good but somehow there is a few dislike. Just continue doing what you think is right or people like. as long as mojority of the people like what i do . I am satisfy.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

yes, these measures are reasonable against the exploiter

as a community we need to take this attitude

Thanks for this information, but how does one avoid being flagged? Outside earning too much from the perspective of the user flagging, what other reasons could lead to a post being flagged?

A common reason is 'being a whiny bitch'.

That's the reason he stated he's flagging me.

So, don't be one.

Maybe pandering to his every whim will keep you safe. @skeptic tried that.

Didn't work.

He can just flag you because.

And, according to Stinc, that's the way it should be.

It was a beautiful story. thank you

:))))) awesome reply

What a majestic goat, my friend. Great video, much inspiring.

I'm so sorry my language is not so much english I do not understand much :( sorry if I disrupted you

Hello kind sir, nice post. Thank you for sharing this with us. Could you delegate me 100k, I will pay you $50 per day. :)))))

Yes, it was a nice story @crazy3. Did you read the ending part? It was awesome, right?

I'm so sorry my language is not so much english I do not understand much :(

Folks can be critical of comments that do not relate substantively to the post.

When you make a comment, be sure to discuss the content of the post, and then you will not be treated like a bot, or a spammer.

Since English is not your mother tongue, you may have to use a translate service, but it's a good idea to do so.

Also, there may be communities of folks that speak your language, and that may make engaging with them on their posts more constructive.

Good Luck!

Drama made YouTube cancerous. Hopefully drama can stay as far away from steem as possible

There should be Flags for Flags.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

I just hope you don't let yourself stagnate. Yes, you worked hard back then, that's what brought you to this position as a high earner. Hopefully that will only motivate you to do better in future. You could have a lot of impact. Keep up the good work.

your post is very good, very useful, your post is so inspiration for me and all users of steemit, I am proud of you .I am amazed to you, you are very fantastic in making a post, hopefully triumph in the work .. Thank you

I have seen you commenting in the middle of the flag war today and I have felt a great respect for you as being one of the first whales to state an opinion about it. I also think that you want to be quite polite and not get so much involved in all this thing, but you have stated some powerful reasons of why should people flag and also why should people not be upset of being flaged. Of course it makes you sad when you see your post getting downvoted. At least I know how hard I work to promote some of my best posts and they barely growing over one dollar. Being flaged is sad, but as we accept upvotes, we should accept also flags. I have tried to find solutions about flag war a few days ago, but I don't think they will be implemented ever. People will keep dramatizing until one side gives up...

As a newbie I appreciate and value this post, thanks for sharing your perspective. It is WAY more inviting to see consistent quality content with participation on replies. I agree flagging should be kept to legit concerns, let's leave the drama for elsewhere eh. More power to true STEEMians!

I really appreciate this post! very thoughtful insight! It takes a lot for you to come at it so selflessly! I am very happy that there are people like you that don't get so caught up in the prospects of making a bunch of money, and instead try and look out for other users and the future of the platform. It is people like you that make steemit great, and I hope that we can continue to move towards making steemit and less hostile and more accepting community. Have a great day

I spent so much time trying to market the platform on my own that for a long time I didn't even post and earned that cheap Steem Power at the time to build up my own account. I focused on curation and commenting which were barely rewarded at the time just cause I knew it was the best way I could keep the platform active and make authors feel appreciated for the work they were putting towards a platform that at the time seemed like it was dying.

That's pretty much where I am at. Sure, I can post all day and night and make a nice living. But that's not what's going to attract people to the platform and give it more value.

It saddens me often to see many other authors only take and take while getting voted up by autovoters and posting 5-10x more than they would have when SBD was down to $1. It's even more sad to see them not power any of it up even though it's obvious that the price of Steem is still so undervalued and they'd gain more by buying Steem with the SBD. The worst part is seeing them spend most of their limited voting power only on themselves and not even reward commenters that are keeping their blogposts from looking like graveyards with full of cash in them.

YA

This.

Merry Christmas dude and a prosperous new year!

Thanks for the level headed perspective. #voiceofreason lol.

acidyo my man! how i hope everyone is like you. Thanks for the encouragement

I am enjoying their fight 😂😂😂😂

I have few reason in support of the above line

  1. They are investing heavily in Steem power. Creating Demand for steem & SBD

  2. Curators are earning more on their post as each post is getting average 500$ reward and they are posting within a gap of few hours.

I am still finding my way around this fascinating community but this seems like a fairly well thought out opinion and makes sense to me. Thanks, resteemed.

Right from the bat I say.

17000 Steempower. Earned it all. Keeping it there. Not spending a dime. Been this way since I started. Was it worth it? I think so. I think when new users see what I've been able to accomplish, it gives them hope. Or maybe I'm just frickin crazy.... (This all ties in with what you said about how some of us are doing more behind the scenes, earning, not milking the rewards pool, taking the money and running.)

Nice..nice...nice👌💓

Gokd acount, follow you
Appreciate if you follow me

You're right, I understand a lot of posts, I started a new job again today, once I got flagged, it was wrong to say that it is not a mistake to finish it. It is a good work to do it again. I think it's important to read the work properly. The mistakes have to be corrected steemit tears us out of those mistakes today. Learn more from your post again Thank you. @acidyo

I agree with the use of a flag for spam and someone plagiarizing someone else's content. Even on high rewards from an account that has no content and it looks created up to upvote a certain account or accounts. The thing that is hard for me to get around that many of us work hard on content and take time from something else to post on this platform.

If one person can kill an account just because he does not like that person or someone makes him mad, that is not right at all. It seems there should be a way to prevent that from happening as it will cause people not to post anything against him because he is wrong or they do not agree with him or his 20 or however many accounts he has. If someone posts on a subject that people are interested in and gets a high reward and it gets zeroed out because one person disagrees on the payout, that could stop people from putting out content people want.

The God complex is what I am talking about I guess. It seems some think because they have so much SP they can do what they want and when they want because no one can stop them.

I know you and many other people have put your heart and soul into this platform and many people like me are trying to do the same. With an army of flaggers to fight this one person with the God complex, I think it will not be possible. All I hope is that in the end, it will work out all for the good.

There is a simple solution which won’t be perfect but will be a start. Flagging must be earned. A criteria can be formatted preventing people from overutilizing it. Only someone who has earned enough SP through authorship and curation should be allowed to flag and then only if they have been active on platform for a period of time. This removes a lot of rif raf in many ways. I can’t make this answer too long but I can explain separately why it would be a better system. Down voting for payouts? Well steemit has a model that pays people who have invested time and wealth into the platform. It is akin to earning royalty for work once done. Let it be. What posts deserves what is not how this platform or life for that matter works. A few will always take advantage. A whales girlfriend or a child or a friend is likely to benefit. So be it. A few dollars don’t change anyone’s life. It is a long hard road when you are off the steemit reservation. You will get in life what you deserve ( in most cases).

As a new user coming in during this flagging battle, your post helped clarify so much for me. Thank you @acidyo.

I agree that many people don't do a very thorough job of curating. That is something I have gotten better at over time. I also run @eastcoaststeem for primarily east coast US Steemian curation. It can take hours to curate thoroughly the 70+ people I follow on that account. I can apprecuate your foresight regarding the platforms future and your insight into its past as I have been on here for 6 months, so not nearly as long. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

I think we should flag spammers and plagiarists, so if somebody down vote good original content it's not normal at all!! We need somebody who would punish people like that cos it's not fair at all.

That's what @ranchorelaxo is doing right now.

He's actually working to stop it. @dan did once too, IIRC, but he left.

good post @acidyo
I really like this post
A very interesting story thank you for sharing.

It's all well and good to say that there are many support groups for flagging, but where are these? as a relatively new user I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to find these.

Also, I'm not against the concept of flags per se - but there needs to be a bit more clarity around them. Like how much damage can 1 person with a decent enough voting weight do to someone who is a relative minnow? Can someone just follow another around flagging half of their post to ruin their reputation? this seems to me that it's too much of a power imbalance between minnows and whales - almost creating a class system amongst the users.

What's to stop somebody from flagging my posts because they simply disagree with my point of views, or perspectives, that I offer in my posts? This kind of "censorship" wouldn't lead to a healthy community, as it could well and truly be infiltrated by one political grouping, or something along those lines, that could ruin it for the rest.

It's really sad to see people post much more than they used to because of the high SBD price IF that makes their posts consist of less quality content published for the sake of revenue alone. But that high value also encouraged little plankton like myself to make an harder effort and try to create a quality content even if we know the revenue isn't going to be so great in the SBD count - the USD value is still making it profitable. So - even though it makes stronger people post more contest of low quality - it makes weak users work hard and eventually become stronger visa quality content creation - and if considering the cons and prod- this is actually a favorable situation- flawed, yet favorable.

Hey there. I just followed you. As a new user to steemit, I feel that my original content isn't getting much attention or monetary gain. I imagine if I post actively and keep gaining followers this will pick up. I've read there is some abuse going on with the system. The only way I can fathom circumventing this, is if honest users continue being honest, and bringing the abuse to the attention of the developers. I'm confident the kinks will be worked out. Good job on your earnings, keep up the good work.

Dear @acidyo,
We really need to be carefull with the flags. As you says, we shouldn't flags for rewards disagreement because then a war can explose !
I flagged for the first time a guy few days ago. He has stolen all my content and translated it in english. I was so mad ! But then I made few ennemies in the way and he started to harass me on facebook/steem/discord ... So yes, please steemiens, don't flag yourself even if you have a good reason to do it. Go and find Steemcleaners, or a whale who has a flagging acocunt... but don't do that.
I really lost a day dealing with this. It gaves stress, you lost your VP... Just close your eyes and continue your road and find people who can really deal with that.

Wow very nice your post.thank you shearing your post.

Flags are good if a copied post is rewarded greatly, most times i see posts that were copied outrightly from the internet reaping great rewards, there should be a way to keep that in check. But however it seems that some users are using flags to deal with people they do not get along with, that's unfair, and it there should be a way to stop that.

In my opinion this drama about if someone get flagged is just childish. And as you said you worked hard for your high power on the platform. Would be the same if someone would work for a company for 10 years and someone is working just 6 months for the same company and is getting the same salary, so that is also unfair. People have to understand it that some people her put their ass in this platform and doing it like a job! And as you said you have not to excuse yourself^^ You made your post long again but it is alright :P

AFAIK, @acidyo didn't participate in the flashmine that created most of the Steem that exists.

Those that did get almost all rewards on this platform.

Kinda like the bosses nephew that starts as a VP, rather than works his way up the ranks, don't you think?

Her painting is very good, regards know my friend newcomer in steemik ..

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

I do think flagging should be regarded as a good thing and given the same Curation weighting as upvoting. But the name itself has a certain negative connotation and maybe should be rephrased . If we all want this platform to succeed it seems only right that all the tools in-place to make the reward pool be better dispersed be put to use by the community.

Flagging does not better disperse rewards to the community. It makes it worse.

@haejin was taking a lot of rewards out of the pool, but less than some. He got flagged, and much of the rewards he'd be making are returning to the pool. That's not improving your rewards.

It's improving the rewards of the whales. This is from May.

authorrewardchart.png

They get those rewards, not us.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

Sorry if i was wrong but i thought that the amount flagged went back to the reward pool to be dipersed in a different way,. I know it may not effect me personally but that it would in some ways help those with less voting power and rewards. Looks like i need to research more.

It does go back to the rewards pool, taken from whatever minnow flaggots victimize.

authorrewardchart.png

That's where the rewards go. When they don't, that's when they flag them back into the pool, so they can get them.

I dont really look at it as victimisation if the flagging is done for the right reason. If of course there are personal vendettas happening that's another story. At the end of the day it will all be recorded on the blockchain for all to see who is abusing the system.

That doesn't do those who've been flagged just because whales wanted the money for themselves any good.

@haejin at least has some emotional support that comes from having folks back him against the flags.

Most minnows don't.

Minnows don't see much rewards, and getting flagged for it when they do, pretty much calls for a ragequit. At least, for folks that are posting original content, and not spamming or scamming.

I don't exactly understand how the whales benefit directly from giving flags.? Of course we all know that there is major abuse in the voting system from Self voting excessively to Voting bots and circle jerks but excuse my ignorance for not understanding how this is connected to flagging.

Good words my friend. You have spoken well. We are not suppose to be parasites here but have a symbiotic and mutual association with. Steemit is not meant solely to improve you financially, but also mentally and personally. I can say i read more often and faster now because of steem it and i have met wonderful people and communities. Steemit is like a country; its economy will not grow if will loot all her resources and store it outside in another country. Your words are true and wise and i understand now how things should flow here. Thanks for sharing. It will be abided by @acidyo

It's good that there are those who return crabs back to the basket according to White Paper. It's good that there are those who do not allow several individuals to completely empty our pool of rewards. Thanks to them, we, the minnows, can earn at least a few cents under our posts.

We have too many abusers, people who want to get the system (in bad meaning). For example just take a look at @ damarth's comment section, $47-50 bucks for every f...kin comment. Is it normally?
I think flags for disagreeing with the reward is normal and healthy for the systen until they turn into personal revenge.

In a month, all the flags return about 6% of rewards to the pool. All of them together.

How much drama is 6% of your rewards worth to you?

A lot less than the 39 whales who get most of the rewards, I'm sure!

The rewards aren't returned to the pool for us. It has almost no effect on us.

The rewards are returned to the pool for the whales. It's worth ~50k per month to them.

my stance in flagging, I don't flag really but if somebody doing not food and hurt or in any way, I simply make a post about it and tell the steemians if its really need to flag that account or let the that account go!

indeed, to flag is to create a mini drama in steemit, and I am not into that kind of drama,
flagging will hurt so much to my little sp, so I don't feel to it

Hey very interesting blog. Ive had my comments flagged for putting my link to my blog in my comment. Im pretty new to steemit and I'm not spamming and its all my original content why could people flag my comment could you explain that? Is it just because they don't agree with what I'm blogging about?

I know BitConnect isn't a popular subject but I am blogging my experience in it and I made a new post on where I stand on BitConnect today check it out please. Thanks.

https://steemit.com/blog/@californiacrypto/bitconnect-journey-blog-4-update-on-whats-going-on-12-27-17

And would appreciate all the support like resteems and upvotes as I'm new to steemit and looking to build my following and network with others.

I really learn a lot from your posts, your perspectives... As a newbie and an artist with an addiction to authenticity, I have to be REAAAAAALLLLLY patient... I have novels, cartoons, 10 albums, spontaneous quips, and travel stories to go around a fire...

It's nice, when someone with some voting power takes notice of our stuff... I guess I mean my stuff, in this case... But I am powering up with every $0.02 reward I get, you can look at my wallet... I want to see this platform thrive, cuz that means we are all doing well!

imageedit_60_4696598753.gif

I joined this platform in June and I know that how things were in the past. A lot of early Steemit users have invested not only time but also money on this platform.

And thanks to you guys for upvoting our posts and for making this platform valuable for us the newbies.

I've been posting more than usual during the past couple of weeks but I've also been powering up because SBD is now expensive in relation to Steem Power.

Also, a word of advice to those who wish to increase their future revenue while also building the platform. It pays to network. Make meaningful comments on other people's posts. It's ok to be constructively critical. In fact, it's great because it shows that you care. If your comments are found to be of interest and use by other users, you will gain followers and more followers mean more upvotes.

but you don't have to be a genius to realize that someone who's constantly powering down and posting 10x a day while selling all SBD is doing nothing but siphon rewards from the platform.

This is really bad. But looking at it some other way, some people do see it as a trading farm. I mean they can earn sbd and steem (power), sell the sbd and power down, so they can have liquid steem to trade on exchange. It can also be argued that they may power up, after making crazy gains from trading on exchanges.
Personally, i havenot power down. I see it as an investment that will make me sooner or later. Although my sp is not high.

nice

Truth be told am still new on steemit (signed up this month) i have being taking time to followup some posts like yours on the whole reward poll rape and flagging saga. Personally if flagging means other authors get to share part of the reward being flagged by all means flag some more. yes if the content is improving the community, yes may the author get his deserved reward, but honestly i think there should be a CAP! (personally i would suggest a flag that stops more additional earnings after a certain payout limit) if no cap for now please whales flag flag flag down so others like myself feel encouraged!! but really no need for some people to go all vocal and edgy about being down-voted/flagged. the flaggers are just trying to share the limited wealth/steem so everyone gets a portion no matter how small. that ain't so bad to ask from the rapists is it? they should take a chill pill and spread the love sometimes...;-D

As a relative newcomer that currently makes a few cents with my posts, I would really like to see whales actually curating valuable content, I don't see this happening. A lot of them have their SP sitting in their accounts and are being inactive. Others are upvoting their own comments or a particular account without regards to the value of the content. I don't think that by flagging some posts that get unreasonable high rewards we can better the system. I believe it lies in the nature of humans to be driven by greed.As sad as it is.

Hi man, thanks for stating your opinion, it's a nice input :) I really enjoy the platform, but mostly for the purpose of sharing ideas and knowledge. I would however like to learn how to better help other users. I spent a large amount of the money i make on steemit to buy new steem. I also use a little bit to invest in other types of currencies that i find interesting, such as powerledger or Golem though.

Right now my steempower is sitting at around 250 steem. This is enough to make a new user see that i upvoted them, but it doesn't do a great deal. This will however get better as i invest more into the platform, and buy more steem power.

If i do get properly into curating, i would like to find the "missing" posts. A ton of very great posts disappearin a sea of content, and it would be awesome to reward these people.

So what would you say was the greatest way of becoming a curator?

Hope you had an awesome Christmas, cheers man!

I commented on this topic just today.

I’m one of those who see the value in flagging blatant stealing or those purely operating in lust for SBD (like how it happened on this very post here).

When it comes to disagreement on reward or on topic? Well. I don’t feel I’m one to judge. I can disagree but that usually results in me skipping onto a piece I do want to read about or simply bypassing upvote. It’s helped in part by keeping a nice follow list too.

The example I cited was how Steemit recently acquired a YouTube personality that I have only tended to see showcasing rants about “SJW”. Now, I usually take that as a big red warning sign to start with. That entire debacle is currently playing out over on twitter and it’s ugly, toxic, fosters a culture of daily pointscoring (as if any one user has got the successful final word in that wins the war). So yeah, I find it adds little value and actually adds a negative value to a community. Yet there are those who value it, and the work has obviously taken time to bring to the table. A significant such, I just pass it by.

I’ve not got the weight to police things but I don’t think I should. It’s a terrific grey area and I don’t doubt I’d get it hideously wrong as we’re all prone to subjectivity.

But all the noise, the desperate three minute grabs for attention and that upvote button, all clogging and obscuring the good work done on here, happy to have an effect on that.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

Oh well... Topic about flags never dies!))
But I can't disagree, you're correct in everything you've said.
In the end, the community will decide what to flag and what to upvote!)

You have done a lot for this platform, and now it starts to refund you. Thanks for the article, I hope it will help beginners. And they will understand how important an aspect is commenting. Good luck to you and good.

Вы сделали очень много для этой платформы, и теперь она начинает это вам возмещать. Спасибо за статью, надеюсь, она поможет новичкам. И они поймут, насколько важным аспектом является комментирование. Удачи Вам и добра.