Is Bitcoin just a quicker path to destruction? Long/medium term destroying angel... Short term possible Saviour... : A Short Thought ExercisesteemCreated with Sketch.

in #bitcoin4 years ago (edited)

I had this wild idea and decided to write it down.

Some say that Bitcoin is the largest wealth transfer in human history, and that it will create more millionaires and billionaires than any other single method alone. However, the largest wealth transfer in human history is still taking place and Bitcoin will only expedite this transfer. That is the wealth transfer from the living/natural world into the dead/material world. The wealth transfer from our living systems to our landfills, clean water to polluted rivers and breathable life sustaining air into lung cancer...

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Irony is, this phrase was meant to convey an image of progress.

When I say Bitcoin' I'm simply referring to the financial too and all crypto-technology that seeks to optimize our current economics system.

To The Moon: Let's all get filthy rich!

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There is a common meme among crytpo-currency enthusiasts. That is to buy a 'lambo' or any other fancy car with said earnings.

Or maybe the 'lambo' meme is a joke (aside from the countless photos of superfluous cars I've seen in the community)... "I'll pay off my student debt, mortgage, bills, etc".... So, what? You'll pay off your home, voting in support of massive inflationary, wealth centralizing, murderous system of 'real estate' and mortgage? Or, you'll pay off your student debt, securing the obscene profits banks make off student indoctrination. I don't mean this to be cynical (those are all nice ideas.) However, If Bitcoin was so revolutionary, why does it merely maintain and expand the status quo (that being of infinite consumption/destruction)?

More people making more money (in our present economic paradigm) only creates more destruction and only continues on the system Bitcoin once purported to overthrow (from my apparently naive understanding).

Sure, we may disrupt some aspects of our financial system. But our entire system has only brought our species closer and closer to destruction. Any system that designs a benefit to destroying our world is a lousy system. Any tool that expedites this process is a lousy tool.

Anything that makes our current economic system more efficient is only pressing the pedal down further on our path to drive off a cliff!

I was waiting for a tool that would topple our economic system and usher in a new paradigm. I fell for the Trojan horse that is Bitcoin and Crypto-currency as a whole (so it seems).

Our present economic system is rapidly taking our natural/living world and transforming it into a material/dead world. Efficiency for the sake of efficiency is not something to strive for.

To evenly distribute our global (material) wealth without drastically changing our global ethics will surely lead to our end. More people with more money, only expedites the transfer from our living world to the dead world. More Lamborghini's and eccentric garages full of cars. More superfluous materials, more mega-mansions, more waste and more shit, fuller landfills and larger dead-zones!

Oh, and I have transfered nearly every bit of my fiat into crypto-currencies! I'm fully invested!

I hate the banks and our corrupt financial system just as much as the next guy...

All of this is to say, it's a very recent realization I am coming to. I don't quite know how I want to move forward. I believe in crypto for its immediate short term benefits of decentralization with a idealized fix of our current problems. However, if it's not paired with a radical cultural paradigm shift it's only going to exacerbate the pains of before.

I'd love to hear some comments towards an ecological defense in the name of crypto! I can't say I'm not searching for a way to reconcile this cognitive dissonance.

I say it's a short term Saviour as it could be a wealth transfer to those who aren't so bought into the capitalistic consumption system. It could potentially empower (with money) those who wish to leave our current system and give us the means to do so.

I'm just going to continue transferring all of my crypto gains into buying and regenerating lands and striving towards building a less greed/destruction driven society.

What do you think? Did I miss the mark, or am I onto something here?

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I think that in your view technological progress is somehow evil. However, consumerism - is not technological progress. This is the result of an evil monetary system of fiat currencies controlled by central banks. The current monetary system is designed to be unfair - this what creates inequality. The system needs to grow the currency supply exponentially - this is why it should create debt by over consuming the existing resources at the expense of unborn generations. Bitcoin is the Great Emancipator. For the first time in the hostory of humankind - people are get access to fair money. This system will replace banks by replacing debt issued with an interest that is re-invested again into debt with a self issued credit without interest.

Thank you, it seems like there is some real knowledge to be gained here. However, I'm not sure I completely understand what you saying. Maybe I can offer a question that can help clarify it for me.

Is Bitcoin less, or more, financially valuable than fiat?

Does Bitcoin gain (presently and is it expected to do so in the future) value over time?

"This system will replace banks by replacing debt issued with an interest that is re-invested again into debt with a self issued credit without interest.

My understanding here is that Bitcoin could 'pay off' the existing debt (which is far greater than existing money supplies, or even bitcoins supposed potential market cap in the coming decades). This seems unlikely. So, are you rather suggesting that this new system will ignore the previous debt and start afresh and ignore the previous imaginary debt. I like this idea in one sense. But, as I argued above all these highly imaginary terms like 'debt' have no bearing on the reality that is our living planet. If there is a financial tool that gains interest (or even increases in value) than this financial tool will take precedence over our natural world which fails to create compound value at such rates (at least as our present culture is concerned).

Which was my point... People getting filthy rich off Bitcoin, are just as eager to add to the destruction of the world as those who are filthy rich in fiat. It may be a revolution, but it's merely a revolution so we can be more effective at destroying ourselves. Maybe Bitcoin plays a role in a culture that needs to replace our own, for that I am still unsure and looking for solid answers. However, Bitcoin alone in our present culture will only expedite the problems we are seeing in our natural (the only thing that I believe truly matters) world.

It's interesting as you say it has a strong duality into consumption/destruction. I share the same view on some points, like the "satisfying ego part". I just hope that some people who have been in the financial need for all their life can benefit from that system and improve their life. I am maybe too much of an idealistic, but I also hope that developping countries can make the best of it. But I totally agree on the fact, that it will mostly satisfy our individualism and egocentrism. It's scary, but I trust us, I know that in all of that, some smart and good souls will make a real positive change. We just need to make our hearts and brains work instead of our ego.

I am still positive. I hope you are still too.
Thanks for your vision though.

And sorry for my english ( I am french.)

Exactly :)

I have full faith in humanity. I have full faith in Crypto being an avenue to possibly save some from our cultures traps as well. But, I also experienced the traps in Crypto as well and am hoping to point some of them out!

"I am maybe too much an idealistic"

No such thing :) It's idealistic dreams, dreamt fervently that transform our world! :) Keep it up!

"some smart and good souls will make a real positive change"

Absolutley agree! I would like to promote the connection between these people as well. So we can amplify our idealistic views into a stronger reality :)

Thank you reiki for replying me.
I am glad you have full faith in humanity as I share the same feeling about it.

I hope the Crypto's traps won't shut down our humanity, making people carefree and remorseless about their actions, impervious to guilt and conscience. I would say, no matter how stone hearted people might become, they can't totally win over their own emotions and feelings. So maybe in this total "material/dead virtual world" as you call it, the thing we need to do to balance all of the darkness, is keeping bringing emotions and empathy. I trust our emotional thinking. I just think maybe our society and education system are unprepared for what's ahead. But these are all issues that we as humans can solve in a smart way - and which at the same time provide more opportunities to engage our uniquely human skills :)

It'a going to be a matter of choice. So let's choose the bright future that's possible and not let complacency lead us to darkness.

Thanks for your input once again. It's great to still meet people who care for our future. ☺️

I would like to promote the connection between those people too. So let's build a positive and conscious community ⭐️☀️

Have a great day.

Absolutely :) :) Your words gave me a smile. Thank you! It's lovely to hear more about creating a positive world. Sometimes I get so trapped in certain circles that I feel like a lunatic when I suggest we could be doing things a bit better.

Welcome to steemit as well! I noticed you're just starting out. I'm following you so I should be able to see any future posts you make! I generally talk about the hows and why of creating a new society. My flavour is called 'Our NeighbourGood' in association with 'The HEART Collaborative' so, I'll mostly be sharing about how these organizations can create a new world for us! It's all open-source and collaborative so If you'd like to take part I wholly welcome you!

Thanks for the wonderful response, I completely agree with you! Have a beautiful day as well :)

Thank you truly for your kind words and for welcoming me on Steemit too :)
It's great to meet people who share the same interests and vision of life here.

Also I have just checked "The Heart Collaborative" group and I am find it very interesting so I am definitely in now! I am following the group so I should be able to read all the new posts coming up. Concerning the "NeighbourGood" I didn't find it yet, is it on the same plateform than" the Heart collaborative "group? Maybe I just haven't seen it yet :)

Thanks a lot for your time and kindness, I can't wait to read more reviews from you and from the community. Let's walk toward a positive path with all those cryptos :)

You're very welcome :)

Concerning ON-TCH I actually have taken down the websites that I was hosting. I'm looking for a new platform to distribute the information and believed Steem to be a good place until I find a more suitable destination. So, I have been releasing information on ON here.

You may have found another group for The HEART Collaborative. My only other platform since I removed the website has been through FB and here. I'll be releasing more info on it as it's further developed. In the meantime, I would love some feedback on ON's simple proposal that I have linked. I will be releasing more steemit friendly additions over time :)

"Let's walk toward a positive path with all those cryptos :)"

Absolutely :)

I'm actually creating an article now discussing a coin for ON and how it would operate :)

The recent technological advances have been deflationary in character. The online retail market has destroyed the traditional brick&mortar shopping centers, resulting in overall shrinking of the retail sector. Similarly, the block-chain technology will be deflationary for the financial sector of our economy.

With the blockchain ledger serving as verification and transactional medium, the social need for centralized banking system will decrease each day, until the banking sector will no longer be necessary for the functioning of an economy. With limits on the maximum availability of crypto-coins, and their destruction upon use (transfer, verification, application) or acts of God (solar flairs, for instance) our modern economy will likely need to shift to deflationary/sustainability model.

The financiers do not intend, of course, for a deflationary market, but the technology and realities of our current life necessitates adjustments. Japan (among other countries) already is instituting negative interest rates, further propelling the country's economic deflation. The era of overconsumption and debt-based money system is imploding on its own weight; thankfully, we have an alternative vehicle that may ease the transition into a deflationary/sustainable economic model.

"With limits on the maximum availability of crypto-coins, and their destruction upon use (transfer, verification, application) or acts of God (solar flairs, for instance) our modern economy will likely need to shift to deflationary/sustainability model."

Although I agree with the premise, I fail to see how it applies. Bitcoin may not be inflationary in coins, but it is definitely inflationary in value. At the core, it is no different. There is no economic motivation for someone to prefer sustainable harvesting a forest for moderate gains than it would be to clear-cut for maximum gains and invest in crypto. In fact, all 'rational' actors in this Bitcoin club would most certainly advise the latter as Bitcoin is poised to provide some substantial returns (and if it is adopted globally as you suggest, then it would be extremely massive returns). Thus making Bitcoin more valuable than fiat. The problem in our natural world is that fiat was more valuable than it, thus people constantly chose money over nature. So, if Bitcoin is poised to be more valuable, this will seem to only compound that core issue.

" Japan (among other countries) already is instituting negative interest rates, further propelling the country's economic deflation"

This is also why there are such high adoption rates for crypto in Japan, to avoid these deflationary policies.

"The era of overconsumption and debt-based money system is imploding on its own weight;"

Absolutely agree!!!

"thankfully, we have an alternative vehicle that may ease the transition into a deflationary/sustainable economic model."

This is what I fail to see. As evidence by Japan avoiding deflation by transitioning to crypto. Article that is fearing Canada may move to deflationary policies and advocates crypto as a safe haven If the U.S. were to implement deflationary policies, we would see a massive expansion into the value increasing crypto. How much more difficult would it be to implement a negative interest model on Bitcoin? I don't see that ever happening without wise central planning.

I once thought Bitcoin to be this tool. But now I am beginning to question. I'm thinking the role it may play in the future is a coin I would like to create for inter-physical-community exchanges that bear negative interest that comes back to its users as a form of UBI. This would make the currency less valuable than our natural world and would encourage circulation, without the fear/need to hoard in order to meet future needs.

I say this fairly confidently: Any currency as a store of value is unsustainable! A currency needs be a medium of exchange and nothing more, else it promotes stagnant economies, recessions, depression, and places a higher value on it than the rest of the natural world.

So, with all that. I do believe the technology can play a role in currencies of the future. I'm presently designing such a coin that would be applicalbe to Our NeighbourGood. That is a negative interest, UBI coin. That holds a greater negative interest (tax) to exchange to other more universally accepted currency for spending outside the system. This promotes in systems value growth. The tax would be stored by a decentralized bank and money would be allocated by projects put forth and approved by the community of users. This way the negative interest and taxes are all in the immediate best interest of users, so as to not be a barrier to adoption.

This system, in my opinion, will create far greater wealth (all forms of capital) for its users than any present crypto-currency I see which only promises financial wealth.

With all that. I now am going to write a full write up on this new coin for Our NeighbourGood! Something I have been wanting to do and now feel fully inspired to do so. Thank you :)

You may want to look into "Ithaca hours" or "Mountain hours" for currency use in NeighborGood. Each business or service provider generates currency based on the availability of resources (man "hours") that gets traded. I think similar concept can be utilized for NeighborGood, using block-chain with either expiration date upon which the coin self-destructs, or time-decay program imbedded.

I think we will need a store of value currency as well as time-decay currency. If the store of value currency is tied to or backed by undeveloped resources (forests, un-mined metals, untapped aquifers, etc.) then the store of value currency will truly represent the cost of deleting these "goods" for commodities.

Sure, by why have another mechanism (backed by) what could just as easily be the real store of value? A house is a store a value, a highly productive food forest is a store of value, deep relationships are a store a value, knowledge, and experience are stores of value, tools and materials are stores of value. With so many available options for storing value, why have a liquid version as a store? A highly-liquid store of value will always trump (economically) less-liquid stores of value, thus creating an artificial demand for it... So, why go through the effort to create a currency backed by real stores of value, when it's merely a counterfeit?

I have known of ithica hours for some time! Unfamiliar with mountain hours. I like the concept, I would like to expand on a bit more it though because I don't want to delineate 'time' as a currency. I still like how the market dictates price and if time is involved that tends to get distorted as it's difficult to factor in other forms of capital, such as knowledge and experience. I.e. a highly skilled tradesman's 1 hour is more valuable than a non-skilled tradesman given the same task... So, currencies backed merely by hours are a bit difficult... I realize Ithica hours has implemented some strategies to circumvent this problem, but I would like to avoid if from the start.

Haha, I am reminded of the proverbial desert nomad who considers two kontars of water jugs worth more than a lake.

Hahaha, exactly :)

Hahaha! Your comments are the actual best things I read! I'm going to co-opt this sentence. I feel it belongs in more general conversations :)

It is an idea from Frank Herbert, though I don't recall the exact quote.

Blow of mind, keep up the good job ;)

I hope it was able to provide some more perspective :) Thank you!

Good move putting all your fiat in crypto, I'm currently doing the same.

They're all part of the same system. Trading from fiat to crypto is like trading out on an obnoxious abusive driver for a faster-focused driver on my taxi ride to a place I don't want to go! :) It makes for a better ride no doubt. But, I have begun to question the destination.

That's true at least we have an alternative to fiat :P

I agree with your solution! Cryptocurrency cannot solve human problems, but they might solve some money problems.

Only by us investing our time and energies in building the new world can we put tools like cryptocurrencies to good use.

There are a few giants left to slay in the global financial sector, my tomato plants can't stop them. But I'll enjoy sharing my tomatos while bitcoin goes a few rounds with them!

"There are a few giants left to slay in the global financial sector, my tomato plants can't stop them."

But of course they can :)

Growing your own food, will rid you of the need to use the money system to buy food. Telling your friends and family about it and helping them grow food will take them away from the system as well. Following this thought and collaborating with others to start to provide all your basic needs outside the money system will further starve the 'giants'.

As we see with banks and other massive corporations is a wholesale adoption of crypto technology. This is not the way to 'slay' them. In many instances, it's going to make them much more effective at what they presently do.

That is my point. The 'revolutionary' promise of Bitcoin is a false promise. As far as any revolution that will truly bring health and happiness. It sold people on grand ideas of paradise, but it is not bringing about anything new.

This conversation inspired me to take another look at the problems with our system. Here's my new article:
https://steemit.com/politics/@ecoinstant/the-pros-and-cons-of-capitalism-and-how-to-move-forward

Beautiful! Thank you for creating and sharing :)

you are definitely onto something ! i completely agree with your opinion. i think we have to reinvent society, without money, bartering and a system of contribution, where every body does what he/she likes to do or knows how to do well, wich would be their contribution to the community. if everything is produced locally, in a healthy and eco friendly way and themes like permaculture come to mind. Starting off the grid communities i s the way i would like to move forward in the future, i would like to engage myself in trying to create microcommunities that can do very well without being slaves to a system, to be governded. I believe that money or 'currency' was brought into the minds and hands of mankind to create a system thats debt based, and thats designed to create scarcity in your mind. Money leads to all things evil in the world, greed, jealousy, envy, the list goes on but you get the point. Money is the one and olnly thing preventing mankind from progressing towards abundance, sustainability, and ultimately it will lead to our destruction, unless we choose to recognise the fact that before money was born, that our ancestors were perfectely capable of living and feeding themselves and their spouses, of that im sure. lets create abundance and a system without greed, without money. Money has no intristic value, it provides no shelter, and you can not eat it. its an illusion that does NOT contribute to your wellbeing, health or spiritual enlightenment.... Just my 2 cents :) peace

Thank you so much for sharing :)

I completely agree we can build a world with more abundance where everything is voluntary and decouple ourselves from the debt-based scarcity creating money system of today. However, I belive we can still use some more positive abundance bringing aspects of money. I wrote an article on how such a money would work! I have called it Our NeighbourGood Coin :)

Challenging the Old Money Gods (Including Bitcoin)! A New Crypto-Currency for a New Society!

Also, it sounds like you and I may have very similar visions for the future. With off grid micro-communities implementing the designs of permaculture to live a more joyous life!! I have actually designed such a community and am sharing its development on Steemit. This is actually my whole aim here :)

Introducing Our NeighbourGood: Intentionally creating societies designed for the 21st century and beyond!

Brother! Thank you for sharing! It sounds like we both want to build a better society! So, lets do it :)

lets do it :) we wil be in touch