BeyondBitcoin Whaletank #222 - 02-09-2017 DECENT transcript
Introduction
I had been talking with the DECENT team over the phone last week to ask if and how curation works on their platform. I couldn't speak myself on the talk since I was traveling to Holland and I wasn't sure if the signal wouldn't break up and I'd be wasting everyone's time. Therefore I asked @AppleCrisp to speak for me since we had virtually met on the Whaletank and sort-of naturally shared our ideas after that on Discord.
I like the Peerity project as well and it is great to virtually meet like-minded people on the Whaletank!
As it turned out the talk was pretty interesting with @AppleCrisp, it was nice to hear his perspective but I wanted also to answer some questions so after I had edited the subtitles and transformed them to this transcript I thought I'd present them here, in-line with the questions.
Whaletank #222 talk with subtitles
Transcript
@OfficialFuzzy: Feel free @Nutela to step up and speak, if you would like to speak.
@AppleCrisp: that would be me @AppleCrisp that's speaking for @Nutela. Yeah, he wasn't able to make it, traveling to Holland today so.
@OfficialFuzzy: No problem okay I'll go ahead and step back and thank you @AppleCrisp for everything that you do. You actually helped us quite a bit as well.
@AppleCrisp: Yeah sure you're welcome. Happy to help out like it definitely like you know what we're sort of when @Nutela was doing initially too was like just help add value in any way that we can. So like you know like @Nutela was looking at initially, like doing last week he was talking about doing transcribing and for like taking like our hangouts or let's say someone that does a video blog and using YouTube and looking at all the other different services like the IBM Watson and the some of this other service that's a San Francisco [company] called Public archive. And so having like the machine ehm the computers do a little bit of the automatic transcription and then see how much work it would need to get done in order to help clean things up. So it's definitely like another way to help add value to the content that's created. So like our hangouts, you know, we thought that having a transcription of them would also be helpful because it's good for if we do post them and also post the transcript, makes it a lot easier to be machine searchable by Google and things like that. So I mean like one of our visions is like when anyone is just doing a blog or or v-log, their content would be more easily searchable and then when they're looking up the best certain subject or something like that.
So to explain the initial problem and ideas: Steemit is great for short to middle length posts and blogs but anything beyond that will not benefit everyone if there is just 7 days for curation. You can read more about it here.
@OfficialFuzzy: So they're trying to make it so it's easier to search content across platforms? Or just on one?
There are two things which might be confusing:
- I was intitially overwhelmed by all the information these new projects were presenting on the Whaletank, which was in audio format only. Therefore I suggested to try to transcribe them. A side effect is that they will be indexable and people will absorb more information when they read along.
- The DECENT project is meant for hosting content other that text files which ties in with my issue of how to monetize other content than blog posts, like music. Any musician will tell you that it woulnd't be feasable to just have 7 days to market and sell an album or even a song. So Steemit wouldn't be good for that. Also anybody can post your song but you wouldn't earn anything because author rewards would go to the poster and not you as the original creator. There is also no digital fingerprinting on Steemit, just text services like @Cheetah and @Steemcleaners.
@AppleCrisp: Sorry yeah actually that was like initially um you @Nutela's idea for what the reason he was doing some of this transcribing of, like transcribing of all the audio contents. His um you know conversation with DECENT was looking and you know he did, you know talk a little bit about with the guy there about the graphene blockchain.
So the one good thing is that they're not unfortunately promoting (being on Graphene) that much right now. But they are very open to having things to be built on top of the platform. Some of the things that they're I think focusing on right now is; they're trying to make it like make a digital like sort of like work on the reputation system as well as like a digital fingerprinting for digital assets.
I actually didn't know DECENT weren't really promoting that their blockchain was based on Graphene and that there are so many developers for it! Good job @AppleCrisp!
@OfficialFuzzy: That's really cool.
@AppleCrisp: Yeah, so they're trying to do that so it makes it easier for like you know through the reputation system you're trusting who the author is and then by also digitally fingerprinting the assets. That's just in case if it does, if it's not just on the Descent blocking its found somewhere else then you would know that it's really from the right source. He did talk about with him like you know one of the things about Steemit is like right now we just have that seven day window for all the rewards. And then you know I guess people like Alex have made like a little like a tapper monkey script that, you know I started using too, It like will tell you if there's still a comment by the author in order for you to be able to upvote in order to still reward the author. But in DECENT is doing it differently.
There's no time limitation for authors on boards or the content creator where they put up stuff.
Very good, DECENT does have a reputation system but upvotes won't give you monetary rewards like in Steemit because DECENT doesn't have a rewardspool but this could be build on top.
If developers would want to reach out to me @Nutela or @OfficialFuzzy or @AppleCrisp then please let us know!
@OfficialFuzzy: It would be very interesting to see. Is he trying to build this himself too? Because what I'm thinking right now and I hate to let @precise's project..
Good question. I couldn't do it alone for sure and C++ is not a language I'm very familiar with allthough I did develop on iOS on Objective C, C++ is _very_ different and I think much more messy but also more powerful.
@precise I saw was working with DECENT but I'm not sure if he is aware that there is no rewards pool and that's what I value so much on Steemit. I don't think aspiring artist are going to do well when they set a price on their digital assets like songs, movies and other art. Allthough I do think DECENT could be good for crowdfunding and sales of assets, curation and valuation works really well on Steem.
I will contact precise and others interesting in working together.
@AppleCrisp: Oh yeah he actually, they talked together about this.
@OfficialFuzzy: Really quickly one question that I do want to ask, and I like to fit it in somewhere. Whether it's toward the beginning or toward the end. How would beyond bits help with this?
@AppleCrisp: Actually we didn't have that discussion with @Nutela. I did notice that like @Nutela was using like the beyondbits that he got, to just use them sparingly at first. Look one of the.. I guess we're still in like the development stage of just helping utilize technology in order to help add value to different post, to help to add value to like have this [transcription] ability of like audio in video content. So we're still just using them sparingly and then we do want to help encourage other people that are also working in the same area.
So as far as how Beyondbits will help:
- My 2012 Macbook is aging needs some spare parts like a new battery and fan. The ethernet adapter and charger are falling apart too.
- Since Beyondbits are a form of money they can buy time or can cover costs like travel expenses and development.
- First and foremost we need to raise awareness of the issues and possibilities of monetizing other forms of content.
- Then we have to create a plan and agree how to contect the two blockchains, that is if DECENT is what we'd need to store content and get curation there as well. I see that DECENT can provide technology and Steem the community.
- Getting curation working, the upvotes transferred DECENT or DCT tokens for example and vice versa needs to be thouroughly thought about, evaluated, agreed upon and tested.
- We could read the blockchains and make sure that for example upvotes would get to the original author of the song, some curation awards would go to the poster on Steem for getting the artist into the spotlight and other marketing.
- Some form of standard smart contracts would be needed. Some author curation award splitting.
@OfficialFuzzy: Do you know if if there's an answer or do you have an answer to @CM-Steem's question? He says here: though content is time limited as it costs DECENT fees to host for a long time. I would assume that as more and more content stacks up, and this is kind of where I'm thinking like coming from the standpoint of somebody who I use SoundCloud for instance.
Whenever we use SoundCloud as we build up more and more content. Hosting it will just become more and more expensive.
Almost like an exponential type of thing right?
@AppleCrisp: Yeah.
@OfficialFuzzy: Then I guess it's I'm just kind of curious about the economics of that. It might be interesting to see what the response is? If you know if there's an answer right now?
@AppleCrisp: I don't think he might have asked that question. It's definitely something that's because we were talking about before like doing merged.. let's say we could do like maybe merge hosting and it can maybe be on maybe different block chains. So let's say if someone is looking at some content, maybe or hopefully that'll be dynamically in the future, that will make people to say: okay right now the LBRY is cheaper and so we'll bel hosting the content over there.
There might be some other block chains too. Or another future way for us to build this or dynamically hosts stuff. So like one blockchain doesn't have to get bound by holding everything.
Good point and to be honest I haven't thought about this at all! It could work as Dtube is doing; when nobody watches your video it will be deleted to make space.
I think it would be best to host your files yourself on a NAS you have at home so that they are never deleted. You could earn some tokens by hosting content from others on IPFS or bittorrent was well.
As a side note: It would be great to have automatic captioning services on the gridcoin network as well btw.
@OfficialFuzzy: Yeah yeah, that's kind of what we're looking at too and I'm very interested to explore some of this stuff with you guys.
The reason why I want to know about how the beyondbits will be used is because that's one of the things that we're focusing on a lot right now: enabling many block chains to kind of compete for the users from one place. And to enable community leaders and people who like to build communities and their helpers to establish their own kind of their own little fiefdom. I guess you might call them that, I don't know what you'd call them but their democracies o whatever they want to choose really. But enable them to have those platforms where they can kind of plug and play with the other blockchains that's somewhere else. So I'm very interested in working with you guys on that. I don't really take the angle of competing with Steem or DECENT or any of that like you were kind of saying.
[More] like leveraging all these blockchains is a value proposition. You really can't lose on if you're helping your community with. To provide what they need with the blockchains.
@AppleCrisp: Yeah and I think it definitely it's all about to work collaboratively together.
And you know like all of us all of the different blockchains are gonna have different ways that they want to allocate the resources and computing power. And so like it turns out that you know right now there's like a little bit of a downtime on one hopefully that means the price will be cheaper so that it will be for someone who does want to use. And with IPFS storage space that will be able to utilize the cheapest option. And that'll help keep that blockchain moving as well. Or you know like keep it in use. So I think it just benefits all of us.
I very much agree!
@OfficialFuzzy: So are you guys helping them @AppleCrisp? So like I'm just helping @Nutela right now and we were just investigating other things. One of his ideas was to talk to the DECENT team to see what the progress is. And like [test] sort of how open they are to working jointly with other blockchains.
Or just what the type of things that they're building on top of their blockchain [are]. And so I guess right now they seem to be very open to allowing developers to build on top of their blockchain. And then hopefully, I guess you know, because it is a new graphene that some Steemit or Peerplays or Bitshares developers will be able to more easily build on top of theirs.
@OfficialFuzzy: You know I will say just for their benefit to get the developers from our ecosystem interested in working on it, would be very worth it for them to promote that they use Graphene.
Just something to relay to them because it's almost like asking can you build on our platform when we don't acknowledge that you guys were some of the first people, that were the first ones to make it possible. Right? You just don't do that.
I don't know if that's their intent but I want to make sure that they are aware that it can come across that way. So if they want developers, and I want developers to work with that stuff too - you know these projects too - then that might be something to look into. And another thing I'd be interested in: I don't know exactly what you're doing as far as helping? I might actually want you to answer that too! Actually why don't you answer that first and then I'll go into my next question if you don't mind?
@AppleCrisp: I think we were just like investigating what the different blockchains we're doing.
We're just like doing the investigation process right now. I'm not a programmer myself. I just do have ideas and like you know I do like to look at the broad spectrum of things and stuff like that. And so and then like you know like you this instant like sort of narrowing down to see exactly if they can let's say sort of do some of the things that sort of the Steemit blockchain is sort of limited to. You know can we help expand out because it is luckily a Graphene project.
Their author rewards are slightly different. So perhaps utilizing a way easier way to collaborate with that blockchain. Because it's similar to our blockchain.
@OfficialFuzzy: Yeah I think that using these different blockchains, whenever they're based on the same consensus, it can make it easier. I'm not sure as far as all the details with the languages they use and all that stuff, but I would be very interested.
Maybe you'd be interested in if I put a bounty on bringing the DECENT devs on to discuss some of these things with you guys in the next hangout. And maybe even they would be willing to give out some tokens to the people who are here in this hangout? I'm very interested though in seeing you guys move forward and what you're planning on doing and where you're going with it. I would definitely want to know a little bit more in terms of like the numbers that you guys are asking? Like how you would use beyondbits if beyond bits are necessary, you know? The whale tank isn't necessarily just to get the beyondbits but it's a heck of a value proposition if you're trying to build something right? That would be another thing that I would love you guys to consider as you're working forward with this. But I would love if you could bring the Descent devs on too. Or somebody as a community representative from them. There's a lot of places where maybe we can work together. I think that if they come on and they they talk a little bit about it too, with the community. They might be able to give a little bit more of an idea as in terms of costs and things like that. And maybe answer some community questions. And get some insight from the people who are here, who kind of live and breathe into the Graphene space.
I will make sure the DECENT team gets this information and I hope they'll be talking on the Whaletank ASAP if they have time.
@AppleCrisp: Yeah.
@OfficialFuzzy: Before DECENT existed.
@AppleCrisp: Yeah, I'm sure would be awesome to have that channel communication open. Because you know I think they don't even realize that this humongous community of active graphene developers are here. Or you know people that are interested in it. And so, you know. And the other thing about that was really I think they still have that humongous war-chest ICO that they did a little while ago. And you know I think they're just spending conservatively. And so they definitely have the ability o like at least the funding to be able to keep on building things. And so if we just help maybe focus them and see what they're doing. I think we can probably work well together.
I didn't know there was a huge Graphene community!
@OfficialFuzzy: Well we can go as far as to also say that Steem can distribute large amounts of funding per year.
Bitshares has well over a hundred million dollars worth of reserve pool funds that can be used toward development of things. If DECENT also has an ICO that you know has a lot of funds that they earned from their ICO that they can use, and they can all benefit. All these graphene chains can benefit by building common infrastructure that they all need, you know? Like maybe for instance there's a documentation effort between all Graphene chains. Wouldn't that be amazing? So these are just things that.. I would love if you can help get this together and maybe reach out to them and keep me up to date.
I would definitely reward anybody who pushes forward and helps us talk to them about some potential working together.
This is really terrific news! I'm really glad that @OfficialFuzzy and @AppleCrisp had this conversation! If I were speaking I think this wouln't have come up. I'm so grateful guys!
@AppleCrisp: Yeah I think Nutella wasn't able to do it immediately but they did offer to have a meeting with him in person because I think they're pretty close geographically. So that'll be cool.
And so like he did take the opportunity though to do the telephone call which was really great of them. So yeah I think he'll has that open invitation to go visit them at the offices. And I'm sure we could approach them, you know even before that point about coming on here.
It'll be sure cool to meet in person but until that happens I think we can discuss a lot. I think it will be great to have the DECENT team on Mumble first to speak together on the Whaletank. I and @AppleCrisp can moderate and everybody can ask questions. I'll be sure to create some UIA so that we can extend the 15 minutes limit.
@OfficialFuzzy: Yeah I'd like to see because when @CM-Steem is bringing this stuff up to my knowledge and maybe @CM-Steem can say whether I'm right or wrong but grid coin I believe rewards you grid coins for storing stuff. So you might actually be able to partner up with them in some way in shape or form too. I don't know but it'd be something that these are the types of things that we can explore.
@AppleCrisp: Yeah that'll be great.
I'd love to work with customminer / @CM-Steemas well.
@OfficialFuzzy: All right guys well we are at about 11 seconds so I'm gonna just stop it before the ring-aling is on us. And I would just say if there's any way that people can reach out to you @AppleCrisp? If they want to help you with your endeavor that I'm trying to get you to bring that some of somebody from the DECENT team on. Or any of the other things that you're doing.
How would they reach you?
@AppleCrisp: Actually so I guess mostly probably discord would be best or on here. So @Nutela and I'm just @AppleCrisp it's like that standard spelling of like the dessert "A p p l e crisp" and then @Nutela is "n u t e l a" so just like one L and he's also Discord and on Steemit.
@OfficalFuzzy: Thank you for joining up and I'm gonna go ahead and I'm just gonna say: thank you to everybody who joins up to these hangouts and promotes them. If you do promote them, if you are doing things that benefit our ecosystem make sure to reach out to me and show me links on it along with you bitshares address. And I will consider giving out tokens to those people who are supporting things. I am powering down a little bit to reach the 300k level. And we will be moving those over into something called EOS bits at some point in time. But until then we are going to continue the Whaletank here completely on Steem. And I'm also always going to try to continue supporting Steem as much as we possibly can because it's one of the places that started it. And you know it was launched here. So it's one of ou historical little chains. But if we can create synergy between other chains that exist out there that is something that we should be definitely considering. And if you have connections with these chains please consider reaching out to them. I'll also say one final thing: make sure to please consider upvoting and receiving our RSVP posts, sharing them on social media and to friends. Because the sharing is how we spread the word of what we're doing in an organic way that actually has persisted quite well through a lot of storms, and is continually growing as you see. So I really appreciate everybody joining up.
Please share this content organically.
And please help us wherever you can. And leverage what we have to help you! Because that's just as important is that you help yourself. So with that said thank you everybody and we will see you next Saturday for the Whaletank. And we will go ahead and we'll start the after party.