Stand or Sit for the Anthem?
Regarding the NFL and Standing for the Anthem.
The players took a knee and the Internet freaked out.
I acknowledge there is racism, I have seen it with my own eyes and you likely have seen it also. I also own that I didn't see it until... I did.
I acknowledge there was slavery and it was terrible and left scars that do not clear up in a few generations.
I acknowledge that TV and movies often portray blacks negatively.
I acknowledge our justice system has a lot to do with money and can also reflect the racism I mentioned above.
On the other side most American Families after this many years of war have been directly impacted by losing a vet or having one come home with physical and emotional issues and help is not easy to find, it is slow, the VA offers the cheapest solutions and don't seem to track the results at all.
The protesters feel a strong need to let the Nation know they do not feel like they are being treated fairly. I guess if they were being gentle it wouldn't be getting this much attention.
I can understand both sides, maybe we need to just have a big fight and clear the air. Maybe it will bring more divisiveness.
Maybe we will work it out. There seems to be some assumption we are moving towards a civil war, but how many of us will raise arms against each other. I don't think it would be many when it came down to suiting up and warring.
I'm an optimist, I think people just need to feel like they had a chance to say their piece and that someone has heard them.
Discussion - What are your thoughts?
.
"It's not how you treat a flag (or the anthem), it's how you treat Americans." (Sarah Kendzior)
They want to kneel to peacefully protest racial injustice, for the slain and the suffering. I am totally fine with that. The racial injustice that has been going on in St. Louis for instance is horrid.
By the way, players didn't start standing on the sidelines before the game during the anthem until recently. They do it now because in 2009 the Defense Department starting paying the league for patriotic displays.
It is such a bizarre debate in a country which prides itself on free speech. I thought it was only dictatorships that force the slavish "love" of state.
Surely a free country means, you are free to sit, kneel, stand or lie when the national anthem is being played.
I am all for the recent observations, that patriotism is the ultimate participation medal, you're getting rewarded for something you had absolutely no hand in.
Let them kneel, they have a point to make and are making it adequately, hence we are even discussing it.
Cgee
Personally I am like, don't care... Anyways ^^ I watched a video of Carey Wedler today (youtuber), and she had a pretty good point. It's not about the symbol and what it supposedly stands for, but rather the believes and actions that are undertaken.
The levels of anti white racism being pushed by parts of he left are beyond anything I've seen in any historical period. Leftist academics in universities call openly for whites to be killed whilst across twitter the calling for white women to be raped and white maternity clinics to be bombed is deemed acceptable. In South Africa the government declares they won't punish those who murder white farmers. The leftist media barely blinks. This ridiculous resurrection of slavery is another part of this twisted narrative.
Examples?
Specific evidence?
Cgee
For examples you'll need to step out of the mainstream. This stuff is not 'shown' to normies. From memory Noel Ignatiev was doing this at Harvard since the 70s. Many many more academics have followed. Google 'white genocide' and ignore anything that claims it's a 'white supremacist' conspiracy. Regarding twitter you'll need to find a twitter archive of anti white hate. Again, this won't be 'shown' in the mainstream. For the rape claims you could start with the leftist idea that white women can't be raped because they're oppressors. I'm waiting for someone to say that one to my face.
Regarding South Africa look into the recent parliamentary 'scandal', again ignored by the mainstream. During a minute of silence for murdered white farmers the ANC representatives chanted 'bury them alive', meaning more white farmers.
This stuff isn't hard to find but you do have to look for it. That's the thing about media manipulation. The truth isn't put on a plate for you.
I think you'll be waiting a long time for that one; that is an extremely extremist view and I think you'll find that 99% of left-leaning people would wholly disagree with that statement.
What you say about South Africa is very sad, however it is also understandable, hopefully with time, the further we move away from the brutal apartheid regime people on both sides will learn to forgive and forget.
Cg
The idea that rape against white women is impossible is being taught all across the US in liberal academia. Your opinion that it's an 'extremist view' is meaningless here. Numerous Antifa chapters have already declared they'll attack white couples with their slogan 'when you date a white it's not alright'. One of the biggest dangers is people blandly deciding something isn't happening if they don't personally experience it.
Professor Jose Gutierrez from the university of Texas publicly called for whites to be eliminated. Do you see any MSM outrage over this?
It is not understandable for political representatives to wish to bury white farmers alive, particularly when the indigenous inhabitants of South Africa recently declared independence and solidarity with the Afriakaners due to the violence, aggression and racism of the Bantu based ANC.
Stop trying to sound wise and give smugly overarching opinions on something you know nothing about. If you won't do your homework you're a bigot and part of the problem.
No it's not, I see now that you are simply a right wing extremist yourself, hence you're trying to push these abhorrent views. I know three people who go to or have gone to 'liberal' universities in the states and have asked them if they ever heard such a ridiculous thing, and they just laughed at me. They said I sounded like a 1960s Black Panther.
Yup did so in 1996, however he said "the Gringo must go" in response to the racism Mexicans were suffering at the time at the hands of whites.
I wasn't, but thank you for saying so :-)
You sound like you're in your 20s or just plain ignorant on the history of South Africa, I simply do not know where to begin so I'll just leave you thinking you're right on that one.
You sound like a very angry man; I would just chill out if I were you, stop looking for non-white racism everywhere you go, it's eating you up inside.
Good luck in your life and endeavours X
Cg
There's plenty of evidence that the 'white women can't be raped' is moving into the mainstream within liberal universities. Your anecdotal evidence means nothing. I'm not a right wing extremist but a normal person appalled at the levels of anti white hate I'm finding below the surface of mainstream academia.
Yes and he said other things too and faced no backlash. What about academics wanting to destroy 'whiteness'? To 'bash white men and women' Did you bother to check properly? Are you using snopes to check this?
You're not fooling anyone.
Look up the declaration of independence made by the khoisan two days ago. It confirms what I'm saying. It's a pity I'm having to spoon feed this to you.
After your previous failure to even BOTHER to check, I'll take your apology as read here. How many women and children did Mandela and his wife murder? Ah, but he was a great man and only a right wing extremist would say otherwise.
You're surprised I'm angry at numerous academics calling for white people to be killed? Leftist pundits (Tim Wise) saying there won't be any white people left in 40 years? My son will be 42 in 40 years. How is Tim Wise going to get rid of him? Stop being a smug new age passive aggressive drone. Your 'everything will be alright and I'm enlightened' attitude is what allowed past genocides to happen.
Remember that this conversation started about a debate whether someone has the right to kneel when the American anthem is playing, and somehow you turned it into white genocide.
Let's just agree to disagree shall we?
Also I'll try not to let my apathy trigger another holocaust . .
Peace out.
Cg
It's a good question, I think that as a patriot of my country, I have to get up at the sound of the hymn and raise the flag and it's not just some kind of habit or obligation, it's a tribute to the ancestors who made my country and protected it as a whole. Thank you @whatsup
Saying your peace or speaking whats on your mind is fine it's our right, however no one should disrespect this country, you may no agree with it, but there are other ways than disrespecting the flag, the men and women who fought, and some gave their lives so you have the right to disagree and speak your mind. All i am saying is you can protest but don't be disrespectful to this country or anyone who defends it.
Well exactly, you have the right to disagree and speak your mind, unless you are saying that America is a dictatorship, then sitting during the national anthem is perfectly fine.
That is not a good example of disrespecting the flag; I would say burning or urinating on it would be disrespectful. Whereas not standing is exercising the rights that you yourself pointed out, these people have.
Cgee
Cgee
I think the point of protesting is to get attention, so I guess they felt like if the poked America in the eye... maybe they would get a response.
@whatsup - Oh my goodness, ma'm, if anthem play we need to stand up. Never sit or on kneel. We need to respect the anthem ma'm. Love what you said & nice you decided to share your view about it <3 :*
+W+ [UpVoted & ReSteemed]
We all came to this world as a human being and we did not choose to born to a parents who are black, white, Asians, Africans, Americans, christian,Muslims, Hindu.. etc.
So all of this is created by us for our own benefits and safety. Life will be so much beautiful if we think otherwise.
Cheers!
@whatsup,
Actually no idea what's happening out there! Personally I hate to say, he is white, he is black, he is an European and he is an African or Asian! Likewise, we are all humans that's how I feel! But some people don't know it well, so terrorism and such kind of mental disorder situations could arise in any where on earth!
When national anthem plays I prefer stand up! If someone kneel I don't know what he is trying to tell by kneeling for the anthem! I prefer stand up and I think that's the best way to respect it as a nation!
Cheers~
I think they have every right to protest as they wish, it's called freedom, but teams, the league or someone should see to it that they do not lack respect for the country in that way. They can do what they want at home, it is a free country, but in public spaces certain rules must be followed.
Well, to be fair protesting at home doesn't do a whole lot. However, I do agree there could be work consequences as far as their employment contracts.
haha, I do not talk about protesting in the house, I just say that in public spaces there should be some kind of rules established by the state, that is, you can not be naked or obstructing public places. Just as the constitution and laws are a social contract, the state should stipulate that things are appropriate to do in that space that does not belong to a single person.
So @vieira, are you saying there should be a law that forces you to stand to the anthem in a public place?
Laws like this exist in places such as Saudi Arabia and North Korea, is that really what you want?
Cgee
Of course not, the responsibility for these acts should be in the hands of the teams and not the people, I said everyone can do what he wants, but in public spaces there should be some respect for the nation. In this case they are in a stadium and no law should restrict that, but in public spaces there are certain things like those that should at least have a call for attention.
This is where we differ, because freedom applies to public spaces as well, and somebody kneeling down for the national anthem cannot really be classed as disrespectful, it is a quite and dignified protest. The team has no more right to impose behavioural rules in this matter, than the government does.
Cg
Interesting. There are rules about how we act in Public, they are called laws. There are places we can't bring guns, we can't yell fire in a crowded theater. We aren't allowed in most places to run around naked. etc. etc.
Personally, especially with our current system. I am not a fan of more laws and rules on how people can behave.
I get your point though, and I thank you for sharing it.