What comes first? Open borders vs. ending the welfare state

in #anarchy7 years ago

Disclaimer: This article is an overview of a political debate. Views and opinions presented in this article are not necessarily mine.

Before ending the welfare state, should national borders be open or closed?

One of the things that many libertarians and anarchists disagree on is the question whether a country's borders should be opened or closed before ending the welfare state. Both sides of the debate have valid concerns about the issue. On the one hand, obstructing of a person's freedom of movement is a violation of the Non-Aggression Principle, since we all more or less agree that the state is illegitimate and, therefore, so are its borders. On the other hand, while theft (taxation) is happening, it is immoral to let other people partake in various state programs without contributing to it themselves.

So, it seems that, according to the Non-Aggression Principle, both sides of the argument are correct. However, a choice has to be made in order to move forward.

Close the borders first?

There are a number of reasons why closing the borders would be better before ending the welfare state. First of all, the economic argument is that the people who contribute to the welfare state should only be able to benefit from said welfare. It is one thing that the government steals money through taxation, but it's even worse when other people are free to take that money if they wish. Second, the political argument is that most (economic) immigrants tend to vote for the left, which will only increase government power and involvement in the socioeconomic sphere. Third, the cultural argument would be that Western civilization gave birth to the welfare state. Therefore, it is uncertain whether many people with other cultural backgrounds entering the West at once will be sustainable for the welfare system.

All together, this side of the debate has some very solid arguments. Now, let's take a look at the other side of the debate.

Keep the borders open?

On the other hand, one might argue that keeping the borders open will help us end the welfare state. The economic argument for this view is that, eventually, the welfare state will not be sustainable anymore, because more people will want to benefit from it rather than contribute to it. Therefore, the state will have to end its social programs all together. Secondly, the political argument for this view is that, as I pointed out earlier, the state's borders are illegitimate from an anarchist perspective and this people should be free to move wherever they please, except through private property of others. Thirdly, the cultural argument is that it doesn't matter what culture a person has, as long as he/she adheres to the Non-Aggression Principle.

So, we have seen that both sides of the argument have very valid points.

The only way to move forward is to end the state all together

So, what do we do? There are two possibilities now. Either we can keep debating about this forever without achieving anything, or we can actually take action to end the state. The most probable way to see some change is when we stop arguing all the time and take action on the fronts we all agree on: that is ending the state all together. This means decreasing its power and influence in any way possible. Decentralization is one way to stop this, which would mean transferring power from the federal level to state level (and from EU to all separate nation states in Europe). Another way to achieve this is through agorism: exchanging goods and services on the grey market, so that the state can't take a cut from the transactions that happen.

There are plenty more ways to achieve this. For example check out the @corbettreport, who has a whole series of solutions documented on his website. This is just one example. Please let us know in the comments below if you have some more!

884x295 Steemit banner @rvanstel.png

--> Click here if you want me to make a cool banner for YOUR profile!

--> Previous post: Why you should trade on the Steemit internal market

--> Thumbnail source: cnsnews.com

Sort:  

No restrictions of movement or theft of property through taxes can be considered in a voluntary society.

Definitely.

I like hard borders. But you know every community should decide for themselves how they handle integration. Everybody should be able to find a new home, but that does not mean there is nothing expected from them when they join a new community.

Imo "closed borders" and "open borders" are extremes that were never realized. Even in the time of the iron curtain there were people legally migrating and our open borders don't mean that there is no paperwork that I at least have to take of when I move to another EU country. It reminds me of the "free market" in America even though most anarchists would claim that there has never been such a thing like a truly free market in modern America.

I agree with you. In the case of the EU, the borders have just been expanded. So once you're in, you can move wherever you want within the Schengen area, but it's kinda hard to enter at first.

yeah and it's not like there is no border patrol when you come back from the netherlands ;).

I feel like closed borders always sounds like "build a wall", "nobody in, nobody out" and that is definitely not what I want. I want to get rid of todays borders that are mostly the remains of empires, but that does not mean I dont want borders in general. You know your own room in your house is the smallest "border" you have. And we all want to have this actual "safe space" where we can just close the door and be alone or only with selected people, if we so desire.

In the end I want mostly cities and families to be the government of the people, there just have to be a few global/widereaching contracts so the cities and communities can better interact with each other.

More and more people realize that you can't govern the day to day life of millions and billions of people from a central entity. There definitely is something like a anti-globalist movement and that is a good thing :)

Yeah. absolutely. There is nothing wrong with hierarchy if the subjects consent to it. That's not the case with today's governments though. A very good initiative I recently read about is the idea of Free Private Cities. Imagine a city where you voluntarily adhere to the rules without a central body enforcing random rules they choose to implement without having to ask everyone to agree with them first :D

But without government, there will be lawless chaos!!

Nope, anarchy doesn't mean a lack of hierarchy. Anarchy is order ;-)

Well I think anarchy often comes down to the interpretation of the word authority.

I actually wrote a German article about why I hate Latin words and how their common usage in English is actually hurting the intellectual debate.

Sure we Germans have the word "Autorität" as well and the exact translate meaning is "always right/corrrect" if I remember correctly.

A real German word for the phenomenon would be leadership, but the word "Führer" somehow got a bad rep xD. A leader is nothing without followers. Ron Paul would be a great example for a leader and I think he is often annoyed that nobody within the libertarian community is having a more controversial debate with him, many see him as an authority and not just a leader.

But without government, there will be lawless chaos!!

Wait are you just putting words into my mouth or did you reply to the wrong person? :D

Haha those are not your words!! Sorry for the misunderstanding. What I meant is that a lot of people say that ;-)

I actually understood it that way at first, but then I was like wait, maybe he is just talking about something very similar with another person and got us mixed up :D.

Free Private Cities sounds a little like "owned by a private person" but apart from that (leftist) biased association it is pretty much exactly what I am advocating for. In a city or district your voice actually matters, so this should be the main decision making entity or maybe even a little smaller, but cities are a very good start, imo.

I agree that decentralization is a very good way to move power back to the individual, but I also think that individual rights aren't subject to a public vote of some sort. Living in a (small) society is very often necessary, but that doesn't mean that people have to listen to decision makers if they haven't agreed to do so.

Private cities will turn off a lot of people because of the name, but it's nothing more than a person owning a big plot of land and letting people inhabit it according to his/her rule. It's that person's property after all.

Congratulations! This post has been upvoted from the communal account, @minnowsupport, by shamima948 from the Minnow Support Project. It's a witness project run by aggroed, ausbitbank, teamsteem, theprophet0, and someguy123. The goal is to help Steemit grow by supporting Minnows and creating a social network. Please find us in the Peace, Abundance, and Liberty Network (PALnet) Discord Channel. It's a completely public and open space to all members of the Steemit community who voluntarily choose to be there.

If you like what we're doing please upvote this comment so we can continue to build the community account that's supporting all members.

"The only way to move forward is to end the state all together"
AMEN

I'm glad you agree! Cheers

Congratulations @rvanstel! You have completed some achievement on Steemit and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

Award for the number of comments

Click on any badge to view your own Board of Honor on SteemitBoard.
For more information about SteemitBoard, click here

If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP

By upvoting this notification, you can help all Steemit users. Learn how here!

Good post. Two options; "close boarders and say bugger off" = racist. Or "come on in. Be my guest. Oh? Do you want free money? Sorry brah, we don't give that to anyone. We don't really have a government you see" = no racist.

You win and the commoners don't have to feel "racist" about it. Win-win.

I agree, open borders without a welfare state would be the best way to go. However, it's going to be a challenge to convince normies that people can still help those in need without the government wanting to take the initiative for it all the time. Charity is hugely underestimated in that regard, I think.

Coin Marketplace

STEEM 0.20
TRX 0.13
JST 0.030
BTC 64081.52
ETH 3398.85
USDT 1.00
SBD 2.62