You are viewing a single comment's thread from:
RE: Can Capitalism Exist Without a State?
Funny, I don't feel unsafe or sketchy when I buy from people on Craigslist. Sure there are some sketchballs on there, but you use common sense precautions like meeting at a public place and not allowing them to pay with a cashier's check. That's more what I was referring to when I said "beneath the notice of the modern state", but since you took it to black markets, yes, that exists too. And the reason why they are so dangerous, inefficient, and expensive is because they are illegal. Remove state prohibition and black markets are no longer "black".
So you have somehow missed the news about all the murders, rapes and robberies facilitated by craigslist? And the warnings that Craigslist itself provides? Craigslist does not provide those warnings for no reason.
Sure that helps, why are you doing any of those things if you don't feel unsafe or sketchy? do you ever have to worry about Walmart raping and robbing you? Have you ever tried to return something that you bought on craigslist?
Craigslist is a great example of the dangers and inefficiencies that exist in the absence of regulation, and it does not exist in the absence of regulation! All of the rules still apply to craigslist, you still have the police protecting you, because of that there are fewer rapes, robberies and murders from craigslist than their would be without them. And you still enjoy the protections of the court and state, you can sue someone who rips you off on craigslist. Without that there would be even more rip offs.
Without the protection of the state every market would be like the illegal methamphetamine market. And of course some sort of dominant protection agency would arise to fill the vacuum of power. We see this in black markets with drug cartels, when the state abdicates its regulatory responsibility another protection agency will take over, except they don't usually fine people who violate their regulations, they do this:
I was thinking about craigslist last night and I made a decision to no longer use it because it has caused me nothing but headaches over the last year, it's more trouble than it is worth.
Same reason I lock my car when I go into Walmart. Not because I feel unsafe, but just out of a common sense habit of reducing opportunities for others to do me harm.
So people never get ripped off by businesses in regulated industries? Healthcare is one of the most regulated industries in existence, and yet there are tons of stories about people being lied to, overcharged, or even abused at the hands of medical professionals. Regulation does not stop assholes from being assholes. As a consumer, you have to take measures to protect yourself regardless of whether you are purchasing goods and services from licensed, regulated providers or from some guy at the flea market.
The police have nothing to do with the rate of Craigslist transactions that end in rape or murder (which is extremely low, by the way.) In the vast majority of cases, there is nothing the police can do to stop a crime in progress. All they can do is come around after the fact and tag the body. Again, whether there are police around or not, it is incumbent upon the individual to protect him or herself from criminals. 95% of protecting yourself is common sense precautions, 4% is knowing some self defense, and 1% is chance. The ability of the police to intervene on your behalf falls into that last 1%.
There is no reason why court arbitration services and security services such as are currently provided (badly) by the state couldn't also be provided by a competitive market.
The methamphetamine market is the way it is because the state has regulated it. Black markets are the most regulated markets in existence, not the least. They have been regulated to the extent that no one is allowed to participate in them. For those who choose to ignore that regulation, there are high profits to be had because of the risk involved. If recreational methamphetamines were not made illegal by the state, they would be manufactured in state of the art labs, sold in brick and mortar stores. Prohibition creates danger and criminality in a market, not the other way around. Think of alcohol prohibition in the U.S. as a perfect example.
in general regulations are aimed at "reducing opportunities for others to do me harm." and also providing non violent forms of recourse when they do.
Do you really have to take the same measures in both cases? Do you worry about meeting in public and bad checks when you do business with regulated sellers?
I'm sure I never made that claim. When they do regulations provide you recourse, you hear all those stories because people get busted and/or sued breaking the regulations. The American health industry provides a great example of how government subsidies lead to all sorts of market failures, that's a whole different discussion.
"The police have nothing to do with the rate of Craigslist transactions that end in rape or murder "
I disagree, when they bust a serial craigslist murderer or rapist they prevent those people from raping and murdering more craigslist users. That reduces the rate of craigslist rapes and murders. Without the police those people would continue to rape and murder craigslist users. The police also warn people about craigslist rapists murderers, robbers and scammers who are still on the loose which has to help as well. I am sure I never said that the main benefit of the police would be stopping crimes in progress. You really think there is zero deterrent effect from police and courts? I sure would hurt a lot more people without the threat of legal sanctions. I sure would have been ripped off more without the threat of taking people to court. Without courts what recourse is there?
"There is no reason why court arbitration services and security services such as are currently provided (badly) by the state couldn't also be provided by a competitive market."
There is and this is where anarchists often go into denial, the only reason anyone ever agrees to arbitration is because otherwise they would have to go to court and there are costs associated with that. Without the threat of court why would anyone agree to participate in your arbitration?
As far as competing security services we have many real life examples of that. We can see how that goes in real life anywhere the state has failed in its role as dominant protection agency. These "security services" are called cartels, street gangs and the mafia depending where you are at. That is the reality of life without a properly functioning dominant protection agency.
Prohibition is the abdication of regulation.