being left alone is not really doing anything, what do you want to do that you are prevented from doing now besides speeding, not paying taxes, getting high and owning an unregistered machine gun?
I think perhaps we're coming at this from different perspectives.
There are men I'll never meet, thousands of miles away; making dozens of decisions each day about how I should live my life.
There are also men all around me, with guns, who believe I should abide by all of those decisions.
If they catch me doing something in violation of any of them; they will enthusiastically attack me until I'm either compliant or dead.
I can't give you an exhaustive list of the things I want permission for (even if I could, it'd need updating daily)
I don't want different decisions; I want zero policemen.
I have a right to quiet enjoyment of my property. They have no right to trespass on the schoolyard after dark. I don't want to deal with them myself, if they turn out to be violent teenagers I don't want the liability of defending myself from them, it is not even my property, so I put that liability on my public servants, what's the alternative?
If you don't pay your taxes you will get a letter from the IRS, you have to be a real asshole about not paying your fair share before anyone with guns shows up to make you. Probably they will just garnish your wages. No guns needed, they can just take it out of your check.
You pick the schoolyard for the reason that you think you own it also and you have a say, which you don't because no one owns it unless it's private property.
But let's change it in your neighbours yard.
Do you have a right to let some teenagers to be violently removed from the yard of your neighbour because they make noise, and you make assumptions that you have that right because the MIGHT turn out violent?
I pick the school yard because that is a real life scenario. Not a hypothetical.
"no one owns" it is not true, it is the property of the city.
Do you have a right to let some teenagers to be violently removed from the yard of your neighbour because they make noise, and you make assumptions that you have that right because the MIGHT turn out violent?
Looks like you made the same assumption, if they are not violent why would they need to be violently removed? If they leave when the police ask them then there will be no violence. If they don't then the police are responsible for the liability of the violence, not me personally. I don't really want to deal with a lawsuit fro some dead kids family because that kid was a violent asshole.
So you harras them for making noise?
Nope, they are violating my rights and harassing me, in addition to trespassing, I have a right to quiet enjoyment of my property, they have no right to trespass or be loud.
Now here's a conundrum, is the gang violence there because they took the police away or did the police leave because the gang violence was too much for them? What caused what?
no, it's more along the line of, "what are not already free to do"? If you want to drive fast you can go to a race track. If you don't want to pay taxes just be poor. you can get a machine gun with a tax stamp.
Why do I need to ask you for permission to do things?
If you get to decide when I can do things, what hoops I must jump through, what stickers or stamps I must have. That you have a right to my money if I get above an arbitrairy line of wealth which you decide what that is.
If I can tell you what you can and must do, or can and must not do,
that you need to ask permission and sticker and stamps from me. And that if you get money above some abritrary line that you are not poor anymore, according to me, and you must give me that money.
or else I incarcerate you and if you defend yourself from me, I can kill you if you do not obey my myriad of rules.
What makes you think that you are free?
And that your not my slave?
What makes you think that you have an obligation to obey me?
What makes you think I can take your money and you must pay me?.........and say.......If you don't want me to take your money/possessions, then you have the option to stay poor............really?
The better question is: Whats so great about forcibly controlling other peoples lives? Do you think that putting a gun against somebodies head and telling them what they can and can't do is acceptable? Is this an effective approach to making the world a better place? If not then you should be opposed to any form of government. Because that is effectively what you are doing when you support the government, the system is designed so that people can hide from the responsibility of these atrocities behind the curtain of government, despite the fact that anyone who participates in this sham is directly responsible.
At the core, what anarchy is about is taking complete personal responsibility for your own life. As typically the individual has more interest in preserving and bettering ones self than anyone else. Supporting government is the dumping of certain responsibilities off onto "society" as whole, with the claim that we are incapable of sufficiently taking care of them ourselves, which is a complete lie.
So, what anarchists want to do is precisely whatever the fuck we want to. Because it is our god given right to do exactly that. Ideally, without forcibly infringing on anyone elses right to do the same.
I see, specific things. Maybe to be able to help your fellow man without fear of reprisal? Yes, people have been arrested and at least temporarily encarcerated for feeding the homeless.
I think the fear is that as more and more regulation comes into play we may end up in a similar situation to China under Mao or Russia. How far is too far? Did you watch the video on the Battle of the Beanfield? All that violence because the councils didn't want a festival becoming permanent.
that's funny, I have never been afraid of that. Seems like the people who make that claim are often running an illegal commercial kitchen, which does not seem like a big deal until they give a bunch of homeless people without insurance food poisoning. I think I had a Spanish teacher in high school make me watch that one. There are lots of ways to feed the homeless.
Often the homeless end up feeding themselves from bins. Who's to say that won't give them food poisoning? Things are rarely straight forward and simple, there's always more to stories than meets the eye. That's why I feel every point of view should be heard. It's been informative reading all the comments on here. They are all valid points, even if they do disagree with each other.
when you get involved you become responsible. There was a story of a guy who built a set of stairs in a park on his own. Some were upset the city was going to remove them. But obviously those stairs were not up to code and someone would be injured on them, then who pays for that?
There was outcry because his stairs were only a few hundred dollars and the stairs the city then put in cost 100 times as much, but no one is going to slip down those and die very easily.
No, what you already mentioned is a vastly oversimplified view which has a clear intention of belittling the importance of true freedom. Which is pathetic, by the way. I explained it as concisely as anyone could ever hope to in my last paragraph. It is characterized by it's non specificity, that's the point. If you took a moment to ponder what anarchy IS instead of just making smug dismissive comments you would realize that.
I guess it depends on the country you're in. In Australia we now have anti-assosiation laws that prevent some groups from gathering or wearing club colours.
That is fucked up, if you have any sort of hate speech laws and you don't have freedom of assembly then you are not living in a free country. It's like they are trying to turn it back into a prison colony. Maybe Australia is ready for a Trump or a Brexit?
I want;
Pay voluntary for the services one needs. (and others)
Not doing drugs, but let others do drugs if they want to.
Drive carefully not to hurt anyone, and let others drive the way they want, as long as they don't are an immediate danger to others.
Keeping drunk drivers of the road, by not serving them more than one alcoholic (when they are the one driving) while they are in my house (It's a rule I have now)
If they would drink and wanted to get in the car; steal the key's and give them a place to sleep or find some other solution. But that never happens because most are not stupid.
It's not about the money or having no rules
It's about the rulers.
It's about me wanting to be an grown human being that I am, that is responsible for the things I do and pay for.
And not staying a child whining for daddy and mommy fixing it's problem.
But most of all it's about the violence and tyranny that needs to stop.
well you have to do a lot of drugs, irresponsibly, speed a lot, irresponsibly, and do a shitty job of dodging your taxes to actually be incarcerated for any of those things and none are capital crimes.
Let's say I would do a lot of drugs, how would you get a right to incarcerate me?
Edit ;
Let's say I build a deck on the house I worked for and own, what gives you the right to incarcerate me.
Let's say I don't replace the windshield of my car (for the second time) because there is a minor crack, in the left under corner, that goes nowhere, and is perfectly safe) and that costs over five hundred dollar to replace, (with all the lost hours in time it's dubble that. If not more, If I wouldn't do that, so I would not have that sticker of yours, what gives you the right to incarcerate me?
Let's say I have a tree in my garden that 3.30 m. high you say you may not have a tree larger then 3 m. high, what gives you the right to incarcerate me?
What if I wanted to build a house and you say you can choose between these two stones, what if I picked another stone, what gives you the right to incarcerate me.
If I have a fish swimming in a bowl for a decade and a half and you say you must put that fish in a aquarium that's square, and I don't do that, what gives you the right to incarcerate me.
I was under the same impression, and for some ppl its just that. But for others its a way of thinking, a utopia of sorts.
I dont think people are emotionaly mature enough to live in a society based on mutral respect and working together on our own accord, not yet anyway.
We have evolved to this point slowly, and we will continue to grow as a species, and maybe this is the future our kids, kids to look foward to.
This seems to be an interesting question and I guess it varies depending on the anarchist, just as what every Christian wants is varied, every feminist, every vegan... darn these labels!
We own ourselves, and want to be left alone.
All with the freedom of mind own themselves.
being left alone is not really doing anything, what do you want to do that you are prevented from doing now besides speeding, not paying taxes, getting high and owning an unregistered machine gun?
I think perhaps we're coming at this from different perspectives.
There are men I'll never meet, thousands of miles away; making dozens of decisions each day about how I should live my life.
There are also men all around me, with guns, who believe I should abide by all of those decisions.
If they catch me doing something in violation of any of them; they will enthusiastically attack me until I'm either compliant or dead.
I can't give you an exhaustive list of the things I want permission for (even if I could, it'd need updating daily)
I don't want different decisions; I want zero policemen.
then who do you call when their noisy teenagers across the street?
What's wrong with noisy teenagers? 😉
I have a right to quiet enjoyment of my property. They have no right to trespass on the schoolyard after dark. I don't want to deal with them myself, if they turn out to be violent teenagers I don't want the liability of defending myself from them, it is not even my property, so I put that liability on my public servants, what's the alternative?
How do you get the idea that you have a right to send "your public servants" to my house with guns to force me to pay for "your public " ""servants"".
If you don't pay your taxes you will get a letter from the IRS, you have to be a real asshole about not paying your fair share before anyone with guns shows up to make you. Probably they will just garnish your wages. No guns needed, they can just take it out of your check.
You pick the schoolyard for the reason that you think you own it also and you have a say, which you don't because no one owns it unless it's private property.
But let's change it in your neighbours yard.
Do you have a right to let some teenagers to be violently removed from the yard of your neighbour because they make noise, and you make assumptions that you have that right because the MIGHT turn out violent?
So you harras them for making noise?
I pick the school yard because that is a real life scenario. Not a hypothetical.
"no one owns" it is not true, it is the property of the city.
Looks like you made the same assumption, if they are not violent why would they need to be violently removed? If they leave when the police ask them then there will be no violence. If they don't then the police are responsible for the liability of the violence, not me personally. I don't really want to deal with a lawsuit fro some dead kids family because that kid was a violent asshole.
So you harras them for making noise?
Nope, they are violating my rights and harassing me, in addition to trespassing, I have a right to quiet enjoyment of my property, they have no right to trespass or be loud.
If there is no policing you end up like Chicago. Rampant violence and high murder rates.
Does Chicago not have any police?
yeah, and 100,000 gang members.
Not in most areas, hence the excessive gang violence and highest murder rate in the US.
Now here's a conundrum, is the gang violence there because they took the police away or did the police leave because the gang violence was too much for them? What caused what?
the gang violence is there because we choose to prohibit drugs.
Is your question really; What do you need freedom for? ........Well guess what ....non of your business you don't get to decide : P
no, it's more along the line of, "what are not already free to do"? If you want to drive fast you can go to a race track. If you don't want to pay taxes just be poor. you can get a machine gun with a tax stamp.
Why do I need to ask you for permission to do things?
If you get to decide when I can do things, what hoops I must jump through, what stickers or stamps I must have. That you have a right to my money if I get above an arbitrairy line of wealth which you decide what that is.
If I can tell you what you can and must do, or can and must not do,
that you need to ask permission and sticker and stamps from me. And that if you get money above some abritrary line that you are not poor anymore, according to me, and you must give me that money.
or else I incarcerate you and if you defend yourself from me, I can kill you if you do not obey my myriad of rules.
What makes you think that you are free?
And that your not my slave?
What makes you think that you have an obligation to obey me?
What makes you think I can take your money and you must pay me?.........and say.......If you don't want me to take your money/possessions, then you have the option to stay poor............really?
The better question is: Whats so great about forcibly controlling other peoples lives? Do you think that putting a gun against somebodies head and telling them what they can and can't do is acceptable? Is this an effective approach to making the world a better place? If not then you should be opposed to any form of government. Because that is effectively what you are doing when you support the government, the system is designed so that people can hide from the responsibility of these atrocities behind the curtain of government, despite the fact that anyone who participates in this sham is directly responsible.
At the core, what anarchy is about is taking complete personal responsibility for your own life. As typically the individual has more interest in preserving and bettering ones self than anyone else. Supporting government is the dumping of certain responsibilities off onto "society" as whole, with the claim that we are incapable of sufficiently taking care of them ourselves, which is a complete lie.
So, what anarchists want to do is precisely whatever the fuck we want to. Because it is our god given right to do exactly that. Ideally, without forcibly infringing on anyone elses right to do the same.
so pretty much the three I mentioned? I am just curious if there are any specific things.
I see, specific things. Maybe to be able to help your fellow man without fear of reprisal? Yes, people have been arrested and at least temporarily encarcerated for feeding the homeless.
I think the fear is that as more and more regulation comes into play we may end up in a similar situation to China under Mao or Russia. How far is too far? Did you watch the video on the Battle of the Beanfield? All that violence because the councils didn't want a festival becoming permanent.
that's funny, I have never been afraid of that. Seems like the people who make that claim are often running an illegal commercial kitchen, which does not seem like a big deal until they give a bunch of homeless people without insurance food poisoning. I think I had a Spanish teacher in high school make me watch that one. There are lots of ways to feed the homeless.
Often the homeless end up feeding themselves from bins. Who's to say that won't give them food poisoning? Things are rarely straight forward and simple, there's always more to stories than meets the eye. That's why I feel every point of view should be heard. It's been informative reading all the comments on here. They are all valid points, even if they do disagree with each other.
when you get involved you become responsible. There was a story of a guy who built a set of stairs in a park on his own. Some were upset the city was going to remove them. But obviously those stairs were not up to code and someone would be injured on them, then who pays for that?
There was outcry because his stairs were only a few hundred dollars and the stairs the city then put in cost 100 times as much, but no one is going to slip down those and die very easily.
No, what you already mentioned is a vastly oversimplified view which has a clear intention of belittling the importance of true freedom. Which is pathetic, by the way. I explained it as concisely as anyone could ever hope to in my last paragraph. It is characterized by it's non specificity, that's the point. If you took a moment to ponder what anarchy IS instead of just making smug dismissive comments you would realize that.
I personally have trouble thinking of anything I am not free to do now.
I guess it depends on the country you're in. In Australia we now have anti-assosiation laws that prevent some groups from gathering or wearing club colours.
That is fucked up, if you have any sort of hate speech laws and you don't have freedom of assembly then you are not living in a free country. It's like they are trying to turn it back into a prison colony. Maybe Australia is ready for a Trump or a Brexit?
I want;
Pay voluntary for the services one needs. (and others)
Not doing drugs, but let others do drugs if they want to.
Drive carefully not to hurt anyone, and let others drive the way they want, as long as they don't are an immediate danger to others.
Keeping drunk drivers of the road, by not serving them more than one alcoholic (when they are the one driving) while they are in my house (It's a rule I have now)
If they would drink and wanted to get in the car; steal the key's and give them a place to sleep or find some other solution. But that never happens because most are not stupid.
It's not about the money or having no rules
It's about the rulers.
It's about me wanting to be an grown human being that I am, that is responsible for the things I do and pay for.
And not staying a child whining for daddy and mommy fixing it's problem.
But most of all it's about the violence and tyranny that needs to stop.
Or as @mattclarcke said so beautifully short
I edited some mistakes out and added a sentence
so drugs, speeding and not paying taxes?
End slavery.
well you have to do a lot of drugs, irresponsibly, speed a lot, irresponsibly, and do a shitty job of dodging your taxes to actually be incarcerated for any of those things and none are capital crimes.
Let's say I would do a lot of drugs, how would you get a right to incarcerate me?
Edit ;
Let's say I build a deck on the house I worked for and own, what gives you the right to incarcerate me.
Let's say I don't replace the windshield of my car (for the second time) because there is a minor crack, in the left under corner, that goes nowhere, and is perfectly safe) and that costs over five hundred dollar to replace, (with all the lost hours in time it's dubble that. If not more, If I wouldn't do that, so I would not have that sticker of yours, what gives you the right to incarcerate me?
Let's say I have a tree in my garden that 3.30 m. high you say you may not have a tree larger then 3 m. high, what gives you the right to incarcerate me?
What if I wanted to build a house and you say you can choose between these two stones, what if I picked another stone, what gives you the right to incarcerate me.
If I have a fish swimming in a bowl for a decade and a half and you say you must put that fish in a aquarium that's square, and I don't do that, what gives you the right to incarcerate me.
I could go on and on.
I was under the same impression, and for some ppl its just that. But for others its a way of thinking, a utopia of sorts.
I dont think people are emotionaly mature enough to live in a society based on mutral respect and working together on our own accord, not yet anyway.
We have evolved to this point slowly, and we will continue to grow as a species, and maybe this is the future our kids, kids to look foward to.
The trend in America in most things is towards increased recognition of civil rights, look at the advances in gun rights in the last 20 years.
This seems to be an interesting question and I guess it varies depending on the anarchist, just as what every Christian wants is varied, every feminist, every vegan... darn these labels!
-isms are schisms.