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RE: Losing Patience with Statists

in #anarchism7 years ago (edited)

Well written as usual. I think a really challenging thing for ALL OF US whether it is Statist, Voluntaryist, Anarchist (not the type the news is calling it), or any other label is that we do all have a mind. It is very likely all of us are very defensive of our mind.

So I believe you've had some amazingly compelling pieces. I've shared many of them with people over the years. The most effective ones I find are the ones where you are attacking the idea of statism, and statist acts, and the YOU that you refer to in those pieces is not specifically the person who is reading or watching some of your material.

Now on a more personal basis I think an important thing a lot of people forget is to ask themselves What is my actual goal in talking to this person? Is it to convince them of something different than they currently believe? Is it to vent your own frustration, and you do not care whether you convince anyone or not?

Through observation and you likely have had these same observations I've noticed that once the ad hominem attacks and insults fly it becomes VERY difficult (almost impossible) to convince that person of anything. You may have relieved your pent up frustration with them a bit, and you thus may emotionally feel a little better, but the attempt to convince them of anything is likely gone. So it is really important to know what your goal actually is.

In that battle you will still possibly convert people. It will not be the person you attacked, it will be the spectators that were present to watch the exchange. So another aspect of your goal questions could be, am I willing to sacrifice convincing the actual person I am speaking to if it convinces other people watching the exchange?

It is frustrating for anyone when they spend a lot of time developing their ideas, and learning to try to persuade/convince those who do not agree with it. This is even true of people with ideas I disagree with to a large degree. You are not one of those. I believe you are highly effective for convincing spectators. If you have begun to say you are sorry and think about these things then it is also likely you will become more effective and convincing your actual target. You know as well as I that some people will say "you will never" convince me and crawl back into the logical fallacy of their absolute. Those people you cannot really sway by logic. They've made up their mind, and until they either stumble upon it themselves perhaps as a SPECTATOR, or they learn critical thinking and begin to recognize when they are lashing out with a logical fallacy to protect their mind you will have little you can do.

I've had people tell me "you are wasting your time". I am certain you have been told this far more often than I have. I tell them "you are probably right" but then I explain to them, I went into this knowing the odds of convincing someone are slim. Yet if I even convince one person out of the many people then that makes it not a waste of my time. If I don't see someone convinced when I am talking to them, that does not mean I was not successful in planting a seed. They may over time come back to some of the ideas and eventually they may realize what I was trying to say. The seed, or the crack in the cage that grows over time is also not a WASTE of my time if that is the result.

One thing I do also think is important, and it is a problem I have sometimes too. Good communication seems to be more receptive if people have the perception you are listening as well as speaking. If you simply shout them down then that is not listening. This means you have to listen to stuff you think is moronic drivel. Your response to that can inform them that you are listening, and considering. It can be very difficult to not say "that is so damn stupid". That is very difficult, it is like trying to hold a bull back from a rodeo. We all fail at that from time to time. I think all we can do is recognize we do it, and try to improve in our abilities to reduce such incidents.

You were one of the early people who influenced me. I found Libertarianism by way of Ron Paul, I found Anarchism/Voluntaryism by way of you and a few other people.

There are some challenging things to grasp in Anarchism/Voluntaryism that are very alien to the paradigms we were raised/indoctrinated in. People will defend paradigms with fervor. It is usually only shock that makes them question them. I think seeds, and time can as well. That's just me.

Anyway, well said... you have my support... my respect... my friendship if you want it... etc. I hope you read this and it has some value for you.

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What a great supportive community we find ourselves in and reading your reply comment is a treat to my mind and my heart. Thank you! All for one and one for all! Namaste :)

Thank you. I just hope he sees it and that wasn't simply a fire and forget post. The people that already are well known tend to have a lot going on and I've noticed a lot of fire and forget postings lately.

That's fine though, at least people may come here because of it. I truly hope @larkenrose reads it and the other comments from people.

Thanks for your well thought-out comment. As it happens, you raised several points that will be covered in the seminar thing I'm giving at Anarchapulco at the end of the month, about the psychology of statism. Yeah, people should be "arguing" for the benefit of the OTHER person, not just to "be right." Although, as you mention, sometimes it's for the benefit of quiet spectators, more than for the "opponent." But if the goal is not spreading understanding, then it's not worth doing.

Thanks for the response. I'm glad you saw my comment. A lot of the big name anarchists/voluntaryists like yourself haven't been as active here now that the payout is normalizing at a lower value. I wasn't sure you would see it, I'm glad you did. Keep up the good work, and if you need something from me (other than money) ask. Some day, maybe money... but none to give at the moment. I know you understand that. ;)

Get someone to video that seminar if you can. I'd like to see it.

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