Time for a little rant maybe?

in #lol5 years ago

Alright so this is getting pretty ridiculous.

One so called "whale" starts downvoting @ocd's posts because he didn't like 2 posts or the users behind them we upvoted that were 100% going to null and promoting Steem and felt that this was the appropriate response to make those upvotes stop, even after I told him that I was in charge of the upvotes and that the @ocd post rewards only go to the curators of our team which do not control the votes of @ocdb so he should downvote me instead. Nope, still keeps at it, after a few weeks we decided to start self-voting to mitigate his weak reason of downvotes and what do you know this other "whale" starts showing up and downvoting them too, the same whale who's held a grudge over our downvotes ever since we started downvoting bid bot votes since HF22, who keeps complaining about our votes day in and day out, mostly on art as if he's a master of art and can judge if some of that content is overrewarded. Now don't get me wrong, feel free to downvote what you think we may have overrewarded but now they're teaming up on downvoting @ocd posts as if their life depended on it.

We've had this discussion a few times, some people don't agree with these curation reports being rewarded at all and that's fine, if enough people feel that way we can change our system. The real hypocrisy is when these same whales are voting for other curation projects who instead automate their posts. In my opinion the border between these posts receiving some rewards are 1. They take a lot of time and effort to find these authors, focusing on newer ones if possible, checking for plagiarism and then writing a unique description of their posts in the compilation post so that the followers of @ocd can quickly see if it's something that would interest them to check the post out and maybe give that new author a follow. So what's the difference you might wonder. Well the difference is that some "devs" could easily automate this, some do by just posting daily reports of the 5 posts they curated that day and copy-paste the first few lines from the original post into the compilation. This means that these posts are automatic, they remove the "effort" it takes into creating a readable compilation post and just give the reader an image and the first few lines which often may not tell you shit about the post. Either way automated posts are pretty frowned upon on Steem to receive rewards in general, ask others and they will agree with you, if there is no effort behind it other than having created a bot that does it for you in the beginning you shouldn't be receiving extra post rewards for doing the work you do anyway and receive curation rewards for.

So today I stumbled upon the @iostkr account, which as you can see yourself is very low effort, has no engagement whatsoever and their main upvoter is the very same korean whale we tried to get to stop voting his circlejerk of low effort content on max 3 authors at the beginning of HF22. He as well of course started retaliating instantly. It's funny when it's the very same people asking for the free downvotes to be removed when they are abusing their own upvotes this way and farming Steem and degrading proof of brain making this coin more or less a worthless proof of stake shitcoin like there are hundreds of others of.

The main problem now is that those doing the downvoting of low effort content are the ones paying the piper in retaliation and other ways, this just scratches the surface of how these butthurt whales who don't want to play according to the rules of proof of brain and content actually requiring some effort to earn rewards. Their next steps could be to go after content we curate, no matter who or what that is - they won't care when their eyes only see red and they want retaliation because we decided to lower the rewards of their click farms.

What's the solution? The solution would be for projects that have a lot of stake and actively look after those who have somewhat justified downvotes and get retaliated on because of that to counter the downvotes. This is of course not easy, cause there's not a lot of inactive stake that would be up for the task and at some point it would get harder and harder to decide what is retaliation and what is just disagreement of rewards, accounts would get exchanged to make retaliation more difficult, etc, etc.

Basically I'm starting to understand why most other curation projects are just putting their heads down and pretending they don't have free downvoting power they could and should be using. It's sad but true. When you see automated reports that don't even go back to the curators be rewarded by the same people that downvote those of ocd which are not fully automated and go to the curators it's pretty funny. Some whales like to think they still have a lot of power here and can tell force others to change their ways of curating by downvoting them, some others think just because they are whales no one should speak up to them when they are being way out of line. Oh well, I am certain that these are just problems that exist right now when the platform is very young and that over time with a healthier distribution, some bigger price swings and cycles and shaking off the distribution even more things would get more balanced and that more countering of retaliation downvotes would occur. We're not there right now though.

Anyway, just needed to get that out, we're not going to change our voting behavior based on downvotes on our accounts. We're not going to stop downvoting low effort garbage content just because of retaliation and over time the rest of users and all new ones joining are going to see the hypocrisy that's going on here where you downvote posts just because you don't like certain users or cause they don't bend over at your will.

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The new balance is worth it in my opinion.

For most users, since they were introduced there is a huge net gain. Posts now that managed 10 cents before the fork are now worth 3 and 5 dollars. I've noticed a steady improvement of quality too because some people will put in the effort for a 3$ reward.

Normal people who used to do a lot of self-voting and trading stopped that too because they no longer need to join all these schemes to compete with bid buying.

There are those crap posts still getting 10$ from vote-trading or whatever. Glad OCDB is still trying to tackle this. The problem is they are backed by whales, so it scares people like me off (I still downvote clear abuse).

I am not the target of huge downvotes, I get the small ones everyone else gets. However, I am very skeptical of any blockchain solution beyond maybe increasing RC cost of free downvotes.

The people who want to remove free downvotes to stop trolls (they aren't bullies in my opinion) have the wrong idea. Those accounts mostly have < 20 SP and their upvotes are worthless anyway, so they would still use all their resources for 'paid' downvotes. Other accounts like MK are doing what they are doing for a purpose. Losing a fraction of the SBI upvote is worth having important tools like free downvotes. Without this, we may feel good, but we would be back to normal posts getting 10X smaller payouts. Front end solution to hid and ignore trolls is best.

I am not the target of huge downvotes, I get the small ones everyone else gets. However, I am very skeptical of any blockchain solution beyond maybe increasing RC cost of free downvotes.

I don't think it's a good idea to try and solve every single thing at the blockchain level. In fact, it's a terrible idea. The EIP was, in retrospect, a very good idea.

The people who want to remove free downvotes to stop trolls (they aren't bullies in my opinion) have the wrong idea. Those accounts mostly have < 20 SP and their upvotes are worthless anyway, so they would still use all their resources for 'paid' downvotes. Other accounts like MK are doing what they are doing for a purpose. Losing a fraction of the SBI upvote is worth having important tools like free downvotes. Without this, we may feel good, but we would be back to normal posts getting 10X smaller payouts. Front end solution to hid and ignore trolls is best.

The free downvotes are needed to stop all bad actors. Sure, the bad actors have their free downvotes, too. But they can be countered with healing upvotes. I believe if the community delegates sufficient SP to projects like @ocdb or @curangel, the bad actors can be overpowered and forced to become neutral actors (I don't think most who have remained bad actors until now have it in them to become good actors.) or power down and leave the platform. We're at a critical stage. The last vestiges of #oldsteem need to be stamped out with decisive action.

When it comes to SBI, it has one redeeming feature which may cancel out the effect of SBI votes being content agnostic: it incentivizes user retention by spreading out the benefit from the upfront cost of buying SBI shares over a much longer time period.

I don't think it's a good idea to try and solve every single thing at the blockchain level. In fact, it's a terrible idea. The EIP was, in retrospect, a very good idea.

This is also my point. Everyone wants a blockchain level solution. I only suggest adjusting RC requirements since this is one part of Steem that still needs a lot of tweaking. I guess it should wait until SMT and communities are introduced.

The free downvotes are needed to stop all bad actors. Sure, the bad actors have their free downvotes, too. But they can be countered with healing upvotes.

Free downvotes are definitely needed. I don't even care about healing until it becomes excessive. If someone is taking away less than 10% of your rewards, getting healed is pretty strange. The vast majority of downvotes going around aren't even worth 0.05 SBD unless you have huge upvotes from SBI.

I do like your opinion on SBI. I never thought about it retaining users in that way. However, ultimately it functions similar to how Steem Power works. Steem Power still takes 13 weeks to power-down which is pretty long term, especially with some people saying they want this to be 4 weeks...talk about counter-retentive.

Free downvotes are definitely needed. I don't even care about healing until it becomes excessive. If someone is taking away less than 10% of your rewards, getting healed is pretty strange. The vast majority of downvotes going around aren't even worth 0.05 SBD unless you have huge upvotes from SBI.

Agreed. What's all the fuss about 10% getting redistributed by a downvote? It's different if someone gets totally demonetized for weeks or months. I'm glad to have seen such accounts being healed.

SBI is like Steem Power used for self-upvoting with no possibility of powering down. That may be good for user retention. But for me personally that's a reason not to use UBI myself.

It is definitely a double-edged sword because of the social nature of these accounts being attached to a human. I suppose that is the nature of the true value of steem and the riches lie in the people who make up the blockchain.

Ocdb has always been the fairy godmother of the little fish toiling and ceaselessly striving to produce good and unique content.

Keep doing what you are doing because it does so much more for the community than the whale circle jerking.

Every state on this blockchain is temporary because of the forks, people and evolution of the community. This shall pass and the strong advocates can’t be stopped.

I appreciate your perspective, dedication and support for all the little swimmers.

Posted using Partiko iOS

At the risk of catching backlash from the downvote club for speaking my opinion here, I am going to do it anyways.
I have only been on Steem for 2 months. I am one of those new users who is here because of the transparency and the good content. I have benefited from upvotes that are given to me because of my content. I am here for all of the reasons that I understand Steem to be in existence, and it is because of those reasons that I am here as a participant (no matter how small) in this global community/cryptocurrency creation.
I will be the first to admit I am not experienced, nor very educated, in this new digital realm.
And yet, I am already experiencing this political "shitstorm" that you speak of, @acidyo. It's not something that might happen, it's already happening. Just last week I was excited to get a decent whale vote on a post, validating my time and effort in creating my original content.
And then, the downvoting happened.
I am smart enough to chase around Steem and see who has which accounts, or who does what with their accounts. What I found was that I had been downvoted by a "blacklister" who was angry at some whales and had come and downvoted me just because a whale he didn't like had upvoted me.
A real downvote on original content might come with some constructive criticism (in case any of you downvoters want someone to improve from your actions).
I made my first political post about it, for fun of course.
(https://steempeak.com/steem/@freemotherearth/steem-politics-otherwise-known-as-more-stupid-human-tricks if you get bored and want to read it)
The reason I am posting a comment here is because I want it to be known that new users are paying attention, and one of the things we are paying attention to is how the whales and other "movers and shakers" are treating each other, and all of us. If you are going to be one of the "big guys" on Steem, please don't act like an ass! There are plenty of other platforms you can go be an asshole with. That's not why Steem exists, nor is it what people here want...
unless I just missed what Steem is about completely.
Thanks to those who are supporting real people and substantive content. Thanks to those who are working diligently and putting their money and their time into creating a global community that includes some integrity. Keep it up @ocd and @ocdb and all of you who actually give a shit about someone other than yourself.
And @acidyo, thanks for making this post.

I am in your boat. So much politics. I followed some of my downvotes and maybe I am naive but I cant respect a downvoter of my content who does not have the balls to list a reason. Critique my work downvoters. But whatever.

I keep things simple. This is another community, one that I still dont understand. I dont think I am going to put too much thought into it though, I am going to post as I would on any platform.

There are some really cool elements to Steem but also other elements that they could adopt from other social media giants to really make Steem steemable.

Posted using Partiko Android

Anyway, just needed to get that out, we're not going to change our voting behavior based on downvotes on our accounts. We're not going to stop downvoting low effort garbage content just because of retaliation and over time the rest of users and all new ones joining are going to see the hypocrisy that's going on here where you downvote posts just because you don't like certain users or cause they don't bend over at your will.

You absolutely shouldn't. Down with the garbage used in stealing from all of us. And the retaliatory downvotes are to be dealt with healing upvotes. It all boils down to a balance of power between the community spirited constructive guys and the maximizing selfish scumbags. Double down on your delegations to @ocdb and @curangel.

Only the ignorant or those suffering from bad memory think we were better off before HF 21. It was a shit show in full public view.

The struggle against abuse is eternal. The content reward pool is a common. There will always be a dynamic balance between the selfish maximizers and the good guys.

Keep up the good work @acidyo I remain a strong supporter of both @ocd and @curangel, and have no plans to change that anytime soon. I am very thankful for the work you are doing on this blockchain.

To be blunt here @acidyo whether whale or plankton (or anything in between) some folks are just assholes. I occasionally get curated by @ocdb and for the last many weeks I see that my own (and some other users) content gets downvoted after an obcd curation has occurred.

The accounts doing the downvoting tend to have the same amount of SP and downvote at the same percent. While this sort of 'juvenile' (obviously retaliatory) behavior does not phase me much on a personal level I cannot help but feel like myself (and others) are getting hit by the shrapnel of things that have absolutely nothing to do with us.

Sure not all my content is top-notch especially since I use low grade phone cameras that are within my budget but hey I do give each post (as other such folks working with low-end gear do) my best effort. As far as quality of content goes we are not all master writers, master editors, master image editors, master photographers or what the fuck ever but for the most part we give it (as stated) Effort! It is often a bit 'stomach turning' to see some shit-post given absolutely no effort get high rewards.

I had a point in all that somewhere but mostly I think that I just wanted to get it out of my system. Cheers and Happy Steeming!

@acidyo, It's unfortunate aspect for sure. In my opinion when people are putting right effort to appreciate authors who are coming up with Meaningful work, specially newbies then it spreads the encouragement and we have to appreciate this work. But sometimes Reality hurts because we face negativity on the path.

Hope that these Downvotes will stop soon. Good wishes from my side and stay blessed.

Posted using Partiko Android

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