This project has proven itself to me, and I have already profited quite a lot. But I was in from the beginning, and there is never any guarantee of future gains. Never invest more than you can afford to lose! I will tweet that phrase right now. I've been tweeting a lot about VIVA and it should be said that projects like this are a risk, as all cryptocurrency are.
Well as an early investor, your probably going to make some money from the chaos that an ICO brings these days. It will overvalue itself quickly in my opinion.
You certainly understand what you are doing. Just want to make sure others have some sense in this space.
VIVA has been selling Crowns for going on 6 months now and the price has never retracted, not even once. This is because the developers never sell one for cheaper than the last sale. Yet the market is open and crown holders are free to sell into it at any time.
I'd be very interested in why you believe it will over value itself. To our mind this is exactly the right way to do price discovery, because coins are sold one at a time at a fixed spread in gradually increasing increments.
If you know a better way to perform price discovery I'd be fascinated to know about it.
Keep in mind, we're trying our best to reduce the chaos an ICO brings, and instead channel that chaotic energy into making markets in other currencies in our exchange. Money is only worth what you can buy with it.
Crowns are not intended to be money, but instead are an indivisible digital asset that confers a certain specific set of rights and responsibilities upon the owner.
Almost no one buying in right now is doing so in hopes of selling on a moonshot. Most crownholders are engaged in drawing up business plans for their mints and this activity builds the ecosystem organically.
You see we try to strike the right balance between fiscal responsibility and social responsibility.
If you want to speculate, you should use VIVA Coin, not VIVA Crowns. VIVA Coin is designed to be a speculative instrument with a fixed range of motion. Like pistons in an engine.
VIVA Crowns on the other hand are designed to be a solid asset, something you hold for a lifetime and give to your children and grandchildren in order to secure their financial future as well.
We've got enough coins that want to go to the moon, so VIVA built a starship instead.
If you want to speculate, you should use VIVA Coin, not VIVA Crowns. VIVA Coin is designed to be a speculative instrument with a fixed range of motion. Like pistons in an engine.
This is a naïve view of cryptoeconomics if you ask me
This is a naïve view of cryptoeconomics if you ask me
It's been my experience that people who use the word naive in reference to other's knowledge of a given topic, are looking in the mirror when they say it.
Naive is one of those words that gets tossed around a lot when people don't know enough to form a solid opinion and they see something that is counter intuitive, but their mind is locked in an old or outmoded way of thinking.
"You're naive!", is the last dying gasp of the uncritically thinking mind before it opens to new concepts.
So instead of the ad hominem, how about we discuss your superior informed point of view.
Because I am in fact, asking you.
Actually read the whitepaper then tell us all about how this fails in your esteemed opinion please.
Or walk away and don't bother with the discussion, if you're refusing to contribute anything of value, because you're just trolling.
I strongly disagree with the VIVA economic parameters. They have created a complex system without a clear understanding of what exactly will happen when game theory is applied. I don't want a lecture on the meaning of naive, I happen to have experience in this area and am familiar with the project.
Each VIVA Crown Holder has one vote (regardless of the number of Crowns she may possess) in all of the important decisions that affect the VIVAconomy. No one has more influence.
This quote is a prime example of the misunderstandings regarding how decenteralized networks function. After my assessment, this project is not bringing anything worthwhile to the table. The ICO serves only to make some early investors some cash.
edit - I could be very wrong about the ICO intentions but looking at the economic parameters, I am not very confidant about the technology and economic theory behind their stable coins. Projects like MakerDAO and StabL offer much more compelling stable token projects.
You say that it's complex and you don't understand it all. That's ok it does take a long time to think it through.
I'm really glad you're taking the anti side on this.
It means you're trying to think it through and I'll be the first to admit that it does "feel complex", but so does every other crypto currency and we're a lot more than a crypto currency; We're a new economy with new goals.
Unlike EVERY OTHER crypto out there. The crypto currency VIVA is not an end unto itself. It is a means to accomplish a certain specific set of goals.
These goals are to reduce economic friction, eliminate government and banker waste, decentralize control of the financial system and provide a stable reliable platform that people can build real businesses on without fear of interference.
At the same time we counter balance that by acknowledging that jobs are going away, compute and network resources are being commoditized and yet people still need to eat. So we take half the energy of the system and use it to feed the greater economic good of those who really do need it most. We seek to provide a living wage for anyone who wants to be part of this and they don't need to buy a single damned thing to begin.
Just like they don't need to buy anything to start making money by posting on steemit. We have a system to reward content creators and half of the fees generated by the network go specifically into that system. The biggest difference in that regard is really that all votes are worth the same amount and each vote goes to a person's long term fund called the VIP or VIVA Investment Pool.
Balancing all of this out, is complex. We're trying to balance financial responsibility with social responsibility and in most cases, these are at odds with one another. It can be done, but it needs a reassesment of why things are they way they are in your so called "cryptoeconomics". I mean have you ever considered what really happens in every other crypto when you get bad actors?
You mention high minded concepts like "game theory" but don't provide any actual analysis. I did though, my off the cuff post comparing the theory aspects of various consensus models is one of the most viewed and shared articles in my entire posting history and even ended up on several crypto news sites. So yes I've applied "game theory", as well as economic theory. But I will be more than happy to debate this with you. It's literally my favorite thing to do on the internet.
I know you're better than this. But your comments read like you don't actually understand what you're talking about. You sound like you are rejecting the ideas based on the fact you don't understand rather than providing any actual analysis.
I would LOVE to read an actual analysis from you. You have the time to comment you don't like it. I would hope you have the time to explain what exactly bothers you other than the fact you're feeling like the complexity it too much to understand and you don't like the parameters. For instance what parameters? There's about a hundred of them and they're all configurable. Can you call some out that you think are misconfigured at least?
I know I come off as harsh, but it's only because I'm exhausted right now.
I look forward to your responses.
You are just thoughing around lots of assumptions and statements and no arguments. Once you have written a single argument I 'll consider reading more of what you have to say. Otherwise this is just a big opinion blurp.
"There will only be a maximum of 42,000 VIVA Crowns in circulation after the ICO, and this target will take hundreds of years to reach since only one Crown is created each week"
This FOMO attitude to an unproven project is dangerous, be careful.
https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@kyle.anderson/crypto-markets-are-exploding-can-the-market-keep-up-revisiting-a-note-of-consensus-in-this-time-of-cryptocurrency-chaos
I gave your post an UP vote.
This project has proven itself to me, and I have already profited quite a lot. But I was in from the beginning, and there is never any guarantee of future gains. Never invest more than you can afford to lose! I will tweet that phrase right now. I've been tweeting a lot about VIVA and it should be said that projects like this are a risk, as all cryptocurrency are.
EDIT: Done! https://twitter.com/KennyCrane/status/858003528840863744
Well as an early investor, your probably going to make some money from the chaos that an ICO brings these days. It will overvalue itself quickly in my opinion.
You certainly understand what you are doing. Just want to make sure others have some sense in this space.
VIVA has been selling Crowns for going on 6 months now and the price has never retracted, not even once. This is because the developers never sell one for cheaper than the last sale. Yet the market is open and crown holders are free to sell into it at any time.
I'd be very interested in why you believe it will over value itself. To our mind this is exactly the right way to do price discovery, because coins are sold one at a time at a fixed spread in gradually increasing increments.
If you know a better way to perform price discovery I'd be fascinated to know about it.
Keep in mind, we're trying our best to reduce the chaos an ICO brings, and instead channel that chaotic energy into making markets in other currencies in our exchange. Money is only worth what you can buy with it.
Crowns are not intended to be money, but instead are an indivisible digital asset that confers a certain specific set of rights and responsibilities upon the owner.
Almost no one buying in right now is doing so in hopes of selling on a moonshot. Most crownholders are engaged in drawing up business plans for their mints and this activity builds the ecosystem organically.
You see we try to strike the right balance between fiscal responsibility and social responsibility.
If you want to speculate, you should use VIVA Coin, not VIVA Crowns. VIVA Coin is designed to be a speculative instrument with a fixed range of motion. Like pistons in an engine.
VIVA Crowns on the other hand are designed to be a solid asset, something you hold for a lifetime and give to your children and grandchildren in order to secure their financial future as well.
We've got enough coins that want to go to the moon, so VIVA built a starship instead.
This is a naïve view of cryptoeconomics if you ask me
It's been my experience that people who use the word naive in reference to other's knowledge of a given topic, are looking in the mirror when they say it.
Naive is one of those words that gets tossed around a lot when people don't know enough to form a solid opinion and they see something that is counter intuitive, but their mind is locked in an old or outmoded way of thinking.
"You're naive!", is the last dying gasp of the uncritically thinking mind before it opens to new concepts.
So instead of the ad hominem, how about we discuss your superior informed point of view.
Because I am in fact, asking you.
Actually read the whitepaper then tell us all about how this fails in your esteemed opinion please.
Or walk away and don't bother with the discussion, if you're refusing to contribute anything of value, because you're just trolling.
I strongly disagree with the VIVA economic parameters. They have created a complex system without a clear understanding of what exactly will happen when game theory is applied. I don't want a lecture on the meaning of naive, I happen to have experience in this area and am familiar with the project.
This quote is a prime example of the misunderstandings regarding how decenteralized networks function. After my assessment, this project is not bringing anything worthwhile to the table. The ICO serves only to make some early investors some cash.
edit - I could be very wrong about the ICO intentions but looking at the economic parameters, I am not very confidant about the technology and economic theory behind their stable coins. Projects like MakerDAO and StabL offer much more compelling stable token projects.
It's interesting you feel this way.
You say that it's complex and you don't understand it all. That's ok it does take a long time to think it through.
I'm really glad you're taking the anti side on this.
It means you're trying to think it through and I'll be the first to admit that it does "feel complex", but so does every other crypto currency and we're a lot more than a crypto currency; We're a new economy with new goals.
Unlike EVERY OTHER crypto out there. The crypto currency VIVA is not an end unto itself. It is a means to accomplish a certain specific set of goals.
These goals are to reduce economic friction, eliminate government and banker waste, decentralize control of the financial system and provide a stable reliable platform that people can build real businesses on without fear of interference.
At the same time we counter balance that by acknowledging that jobs are going away, compute and network resources are being commoditized and yet people still need to eat. So we take half the energy of the system and use it to feed the greater economic good of those who really do need it most. We seek to provide a living wage for anyone who wants to be part of this and they don't need to buy a single damned thing to begin.
Just like they don't need to buy anything to start making money by posting on steemit. We have a system to reward content creators and half of the fees generated by the network go specifically into that system. The biggest difference in that regard is really that all votes are worth the same amount and each vote goes to a person's long term fund called the VIP or VIVA Investment Pool.
Balancing all of this out, is complex. We're trying to balance financial responsibility with social responsibility and in most cases, these are at odds with one another. It can be done, but it needs a reassesment of why things are they way they are in your so called "cryptoeconomics". I mean have you ever considered what really happens in every other crypto when you get bad actors?
You mention high minded concepts like "game theory" but don't provide any actual analysis. I did though, my off the cuff post comparing the theory aspects of various consensus models is one of the most viewed and shared articles in my entire posting history and even ended up on several crypto news sites. So yes I've applied "game theory", as well as economic theory. But I will be more than happy to debate this with you. It's literally my favorite thing to do on the internet.
I know you're better than this. But your comments read like you don't actually understand what you're talking about. You sound like you are rejecting the ideas based on the fact you don't understand rather than providing any actual analysis.
I would LOVE to read an actual analysis from you. You have the time to comment you don't like it. I would hope you have the time to explain what exactly bothers you other than the fact you're feeling like the complexity it too much to understand and you don't like the parameters. For instance what parameters? There's about a hundred of them and they're all configurable. Can you call some out that you think are misconfigured at least?
I know I come off as harsh, but it's only because I'm exhausted right now.
I look forward to your responses.
You are just thoughing around lots of assumptions and statements and no arguments. Once you have written a single argument I 'll consider reading more of what you have to say. Otherwise this is just a big opinion blurp.
Disclaimer: I am just a bot trying to be helpful.
Hi @kyle.anderson - there IS a FOMO attitude because there will only be 6500 VIVA Crown available at ICO. Whitepapers page 41