Auto-Upvotes & The Ethical Dilemma of Supporting Posts With Non-Vegan Content

in #vegan6 years ago (edited)

Some days back, one of my vegan friends told me that he is reluctant to use auto-voting services as they may upvote a meat-eater's post too. This is a very logical and ethical question which every vegan faces at some moment on Steem platform.

Vegans can't spare a penny for non-vegan products


Vegans have a clear stand on not supporting any businesses with their money, that promote or are involved in any form of animal cruelty. The simple logic behind this is that our consumption is responsible for the generation of demand in the market. If we pay our money to buy any animal product, we are directly contributing in the violence against innocent beings. Vegans would also not like to promote any content that either glorifies the use of animal products or consider it as normal.

Personally, I’m also a firm believer in this demand-supply principle and would discourage every penny contributing to the demand of animal products. Some years back, when my friend @chetanpadliya turned vegan, he had some of his funds invested in the stock market. So, he asked me if it’s okay to put invested in a footwear company that sells leather shoes. I told him that it contradicts our ethics, as being a share-holder of a footwear company means we co-own the business and we are directly funding its activities. So, he immediately sold out all those stocks.

Steeming is not vegan-friendly



Last year, when I joined Steemit, it was difficult to even surf stuff here. The content here was full of non-vegan recipes and activities. Whether you are reading posts on Steem or chatting on Steemit.chat or Discord, non-vegan stuff was taken as very normal everywhere. At times, it was very depressing to browse such content on a regular basis. There were very few vegans on the platform. No one ever used to voice their opinion against the stuff glorifying non-vegan activities.

The eco-system here was built in such a way that everyone was appreciating everyone else’s stuff to get some easy upvotes. But I couldn’t bear some content and I was fairly straight in expressing my displeasure over those contents. No need to say that I lost many friends here due to my straight forward approach. But with time, I also created many friendly relationships. But whenever they posted some non-vegan stuff, I refused to upvote them and stated my displeasure over that content. Some understanding people weren’t too offended with that and continued the relationship.

Since the beginning, I presumed that I was not going to get any whale votes due to my aggressive stand against non-vegan content. Most whales were and are non-vegan here. So it was easy for me to not to expect any upvotes and hence I was never disappointed with this fact. Whatever upvotes and appreciations I received were very unexpected and always pleased me. But several people join and post here to get fat whale votes. So they don’t have any liberty to upset them.

The dilemma of using auto-upvoting bots


Then, the advent of auto-voting bots spoiled the game a bit more. Many people engaged with these bots to put several content creators on their auto-voting. Once I saw my vegetarian friend’s vote on a non-veg recipe. I asked her, how could she upvote that. She answered that she don’t even read those type of shit posts but had put that author on her auto-upvote bot. So her vote appears on such posts.

With time, it became a trend. I too put several people on auto-upvote list, engaged in vote-exchange bots, delegated my SP to several communities and bots. Thus my votes went everywhere without me being aware of the content being upvoted.

So when my friend @fruitdaddy brought in the question of ethics, I told that upvotes does not imply that I like that content. However I wasn’t sure of what I was saying. Probably, I was just defending my stand here.

Business of upvoting is different than ethics


To clarify, let me put it this way. All my auto-upvotes are actually traded off in return to some upvotes and/or SBD irrespective of the content being upvoted. So in effect, content has nothing to do with my votes. If I had delegated my SP to any bid-bot or was using a vote-selling platform, all my votes were being sold in return of SBDs. In other cases too, whenever I’m upvoting using some auto-upvoter, my votes are actually sold in return for votes because I generally auto-upvote under terms and conditions agreed upon for exchange of upvotes. And I don’t auto-upvote any of my friends or the content creators, I may really like to support. All my non-contractual upvotes are cast manually. So I know whom I'm upvoting when doing it manually.

At the moment, Steeming has reached to such a point where the business of upvoting has hardly anything to do with the content or quality. It's not "Proof of Brain" that motivates me to upvote but "Proof of Short-term Profit". And this applies to majority of the accounts here. The "Proof of Brain" is only true at conceptual level but in practice, it is not applied at individual post level. However many bots are doing their own diligence for upvoting quality content through preparing their own whitelists and blacklists.

Create NSFV Settings like NSFW


To overcome the emotional assault on ethical vegans arriving on Steem platform, I would like to suggest a tag like NSFW (Not Safe For Work). Just like NSFW tag, there should be a NSWV tag i.e. Not Safe For Vegans.

NSFV preference option should be made available in Settings panel. Just like NSFW, there should be an option to hide NSFV content for vegans according to their preference settings. Some bots can choose not to upvote NSWV content just like they do with NSFW content.

This would solve the ethical dilemma of many vegans and would make browsing on Steem comfortable. They will also have a choice of bots to engage with that do not upvote NSFV tag. Wouldn't it be the most practical solution to make this Steem platform more welcoming to vegan community?

  • Is there any witness, who will support classifying or categorizing content as NSFV?
    If so, vegan community will love to vote you up as their witness. At least, I can assure my vote for sure 😊.

  • Is there any developer, who can design their platform to include this feature?

  • Can existing platform like Steemit and Busy would be willing to add such a feature?

  • If such a feature is created, would any community bot or plagiarism & spam detection bot like to ensure the compliance of NSFV tag by everyone here?

I would like to hear thoughts from vegans as well as non-vegans on this issue.
Thanks for all your attention!

Footer GIF xyzashu.gif

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You raise some great points. Perhaps you might want to switch to manual curation?
I'm not a vegan but I want us to improve our food supply and treat animals better. I hope vegans can help improve our food supply but so far I have not really noticed it.

Yeah, I've a choice of moving to manual curation but here I'm being forced. So I'm just exploring ways to find an equitable ground.

Why do you get to be more important than anyone else's ethical issues? This is in large part the problem with NSFW too, although at least there are multijurisdictional legal issues with that. Should there be a not-safe-for-childfree tag? A not-safe-for-feminists tag? A not-safe-for-atheists tag, and a not-safe-for-theists tag, and one for every permutation of religion specifically? What happens to the tag limit? What happens to the bandwidth when we're supposed to tag everyone our work isn't safe for?

The autovoters ought to add functionality where you can only vote for entries with whitelist tags, so you can only vote for things with #vegan in them if you want to. But blacklist tags are just completely impractical.

Dear @xyzashu

We all live in a world where we come across things that sometimes offend us. As we grow into adults, we acquire coping mechanisms to deal with these negative feelings.

Expecting the rest of the world to go out of their way, adjust their own normal behaviour, to take into account the sensibilities of others, is just unrealistic.

People are not using animal products at you. They are just going about their life, sharing the things they enjoy doing. The majority of the world uses animal products (even vegans). We are an animal product, part of this interconnected system. To deny this is to deny reality itself.

No offence, but what you're suggesting is as silly as me insisting you go around wearing these:

Sorry, I beg to differ with you. Instead of training yourself to cope with negative elements and offensive things, it's better to try to eliminate the presence of negativie and offensive elements. This is what should be called an adult and mature approach than what you are suggesting is.

They are just going about their life, sharing the things they enjoy doing.

The problem is that you take animal cruelty for granted and think it as a normalized behaviour of our society. But the truth is, it's not.

To deny this is to deny reality itself.

I'd rather say that you have got some twisted sense of reality. Or is it like you ignore if you happen to see any crime taking place before your eyes because it's a reality and shouldn't be denied?

No offence, but what you're suggesting is as silly as me insisting you go around wearing these:

May be, I'm suggesting something silly but what you are suggesting is more silly. If you can give some sensible suggestion, it would be more helpful.

I know you disagree; I read your post and replies here :)

You use the terms 'negative elements' and 'offensive things'. These are subjective opinions. Not everyone thinks using animal products is offensive or negative. I think animal products are great. If you've ever been on an aeroplane, enjoy using your computer to access steemit, or take white sugar in your tea, you're using animal products. They're everywhere.

It's much more realistic to change your own perception than to force the world to change. If others see the change in you, then maybe they'll be inspired to change themselves. If you make demands, like a spoiled princess, that everyone should modify their behaviour to prevent offending you, then you'll just spend your life in conflict and misery.

Animal cruelty: yes, as a thinking ape we notice the suffering of others and it can make us feel sad. It is, however, a stark fact of life and nature. As you have already mentioned in your reply to another here, animals will naturally kill other animals for their subsistence. Humans are generally no different except we have the capacity to empathise with our prey.

Reality: it is normal for us to use animals. Just because you prefer it not to be so doesn't make it so.

Ok, people will always find a way to offend you. It's unavoidable. As for a sensible suggestion:

Deal with it.

For that matter, the words like "rape", "paedophile", "terrorist", "patriotism", "thief", "crime" etc. are all subjective. Everything has got several perspectives and everyone has his or her own perspective to look at things. If from your subjective perspective, you think animal products are great, it doesn't make it true because you may have not looked at it from other perspectives.

Before moving further, I'd like to clarify that I don't intend to force my thinking upon anyone as you said in "to force the world to change". But when I don't agree to force my thinking to anyone, it doesn't mean I agree to or accept their way of thinking. If you tell me that it's more realistic for me to change my own perspective, then I can very well say that you are forcing your thinking upon me.

Reality: it is normal for us to use animals. Just because you prefer it not to be so doesn't make it so.

I don't get your argument here. Just because you prefer to use animal products doesn't make it normal.

Deal with it.

Yeah, this is one of my ways to deal with it. Thanks for your advice!

If you look at the list of terms you used, like 'paedo', 'terrorist', etc., you will link those with actual crimes against other humans. There is a difference.

Generally, as a society, we work on consensus. The majority of humans think it's not a crime to use animal products. It's a natural part of life and the majority of us need the nutrients that can only be sourced from animal stuff.

I have been on the other side of the perspective. I was vegetarian for 17 years and spent two extended periods during that time as a vegan. I know where you're coming from.

I disagree when you say you're not trying to force things. You want a NSFV tag. Anyone forgetting to use that tag is gonna be open to flagging. This is the soft, backdoor entry into censorship.

censorship is totalitarian and it's wrong

(IMO)

Normal = the majority do this.

You're welcome for my advice. It really is the best way to go. It helps shift your mind in a more positive direction and stops you from being triggered by everyday NORMAL things. You can then spend your energy on things that actually matter. You'll be much happier. You're welcome :)

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i didn't know you are ssg!! :)
you are getting nice upvotes too ... excellent!!!
my friend @anjkara will be very interested in this one ... maybe! thank you for the post. :)

He he he! You finally caught me! I remember, I didn't tell you that despite you asked me twice. I thought you will check it from members' list anyway.
All thanks to wonderful Steemians like you for upvoting my posts so much! 😊.
And thanks a ton for tagging @anjkara here. I'm really happy for that.

oh no you dinintttt !! lolzxxx

Apoyo honestamente a los veganos aunque estoy en desacuerdo en que haya discordia entre todos, deberian apoyarse uno al otro ya que forman parte de la misma comunidad, saludos desde VENEZUELA @xyzashu.

नमस्ते @crisber04! आपके समर्थन के लिए बहुत बहुत धन्यवाद! मैं आपकी बात से पूर्णतः सहमत हूँ कि हम सभी को आपसी सहयोग करना चाहिए। वैसे भी हम लोग यहाँ पर गिने-चुने ही हैं।

i support vegans, but we all gotta get along and not judge each other too harshly... that creates division

True, we can get along fine on all other matters.
Here it's not the question of judging anyone but to safeguard our own ethics and sentiments which gets offended. That's why I suggested a separate NSFV tag.

as they may upvote a meat-eater's post too

Do I understand that correctly, no conscious upvotes of posts from meat-eaters, no matter the content, even when it is for example a vegan dish?

Is it according to you as a vegan unethical to have meat-eating friends?

I understand that the sentence is a little unfortunately worded, but it made me think of how the society would evolve if being vegan would mean to socialize only with vegans.

Could it happen on steemit or over the internet? Is technology vegan? Where does veganism start and where does it end?

Even your straight forward aproach is not so straight forward considering that space is curved according to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity because of the presence of mass, so you have to do compromises all the time.

It is impossible to live in a strict black or white world, so it is already contradictory to live in this world and be a true vegan, only being sympathetic with a vegan lifestyle is possible.

And because the transitions are fluent, it is paradoxically even possible to be a non dietary ethical vegan or a dietary non ethical vegan. For example if a group eating locust in an infested area saves the habitat of a specific species, are they vegan then? Or are they vegan if they eat what the locust eat and help speed up the destruction of the habitat of that species?

as they may upvote a meat-eater's post too

Do I understand that correctly, no conscious upvotes of posts from meat-eaters, no matter the content, even when it is for example a vegan dish?

Well, I quoted my friend's words here though I understood what he wanted to convey. If you read the post further, I've used several times the word "content", that is objectionable to vegans.

Is it according to you as a vegan unethical to have meat-eating friends?

how the society would evolve if being vegan would mean to socialize only with vegans.

I didn't mean to abstain from socializing with anyone. In fact, it's mostly non-vegans who would unfollow me because they may not see my content as friendly to them.

Where does veganism start and where does it end?

It starts from the obvious violations of the fundamental rights of survival of non-human animals that is practicable to stop by making right choices in favour of them.

Even your straight forward aproach is not so straight forward considering that space is curved according to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity

"straightforward" as meant in "easy to understand or simple, uncomplicated, honest and not likely to hide their opinions".

For example if a group eating locust in an infested area saves the habitat of a specific species, are they vegan then? Or are they vegan if they eat what the locust eat and help speed up the destruction of the habitat of that species?

Principally, vegans should not interfere in natural systems. If your farms are at a risk of being infected, it's best to use some natural repellents or some defensive net if possible.

it's a knowledgeable post it will be learn many things to everyone.go on.people will be benefited on this.keep it up

Thank you for your support and encouragement!

To your last point, I can say that someone like Steemcleaners would not police a NSFV tag as it would fall outside of their scope.

Thanks for your input!

You are always posting good content. Thanks for sharing this post.

Thanks a lot for your sincere appreciations!

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