Why european countries don't have referendums or initiatives like us states do?
This is something that I find very curious. Why doesn't france have referendums or initiatives like us states do? Why is it so unthinkable for french people to have the same rights as american citizens?
Why shall all decisions only be made by politicians? Why can't french people in regions have initiatives, referendums of vote on things that concern them the most?
Why are those concept so foreign to all european countries? What is the problem to have discussion, consensus building and approval or rejection by the citizens (who will ultimately and surely pay for what ever is decided by the representatives)?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiatives_and_referendums_in_the_United_States
In the politics of the United States, the process of initiatives and referendums allow citizens of many U.S. states[1] to place new legislation on a popular ballot, or to place legislation that has recently been passed by a legislature on a ballot for a popular vote.
All europeans "leaders" speak about values and co, but deny the citizens any say. why? Aren't they citizens too?
Hi, there is always a good and a bad side with referendums.
Pro:
People who are affected should be asked what they think about. These people should vote to help to find democratic decisons.
Contra:
We have democratic elected representatives in all regions. These people are experts or should at least have access to experts to find the best for their representated people. Referendums often end up in total mess of populism and campaigns which drive the opinion of the masses based on faces and stories.
I am not sure if I prefer to rely on somebody I possibly don't trust who represents me or if I prefer to see my neighbours thinking heavyly effected by private television and populisitc newspapers. I think it requires a case to case decision ...
WRONG !!!! THEY PAY !!!
IT is called the shareholder model!!!! And contrary to weightening with share size, it is one vote per live.
The advantage is that at least 50% of the voters are happy with the decisions. Then if you cumulate those votations it means that more and more are happy even if they lose some.
Do you want a swimming pool in the town? Yes it is super important to have experts, where, how much, which... but it doesn't answer the question. yes or no. they can inform but not decide.
Then you will admit that it easier to have one man to corrupt (the prefet, like the mayor but for a region) than the entire local population. Furthermore discussion brings social cohesion. experts give expert advice on the situation but you will see there is quickly contradiction... just ask yourself where to put a swimming pool... between soil expert, transport expert, land expert, water expert, economic expert etc etc... you will see that at one point a decision must be taken.
then the people want this swimming pool or not. maybe another one? the project was too small, costly, big? who knows but those who will pay for it...
btw finally they decided for an artificial lake with a dam :).
I don't understand why representative and experts can't be played even more easily that the local population? you know targeted advertising + bribes... hard to bribe the french people from an outisde power...
Exactly, politicians are payed to make decisions. I don't want to say there is no chance for corruption and / or other crimes, but to start a referendum for all and everything makes the system much more sluggish or even stops processes at all. There are good reasons to do referendums in special cases, but I still think it should not be the standard for many small decisions. I also claim that often after some time 50% of the voters are not happy with the decision, but complain about bad or incomplete upfront information or they were just not able to see mid and long term effects. So the bad guys are no longer the decision maker, which is wonderful for politicians, but other institution like press, populists etc. or just your neighbor.
i didnt toook notes, but heres some referendum every a bit. its even annoying in a way.
most popular are those about independence, or joining or leaving EU or NATO, but theres a bunch of other ones. my country had one last year, and it was about deciding about Day of the republic.
detail i remembered is that Swiss had near 200 referendums in the last 20 yrs, 8 or 9 this year only.
exactly! so frustrating to see switzerland from france... those guys can vote on anything they wish. in france, nothing slitch, not even where to build an airport. Always have to go confrontational like the airport near nantes. same in usa they can vote on almost what ever they want... legalize or not, water management, roads etc.
in france and in europe (excluding switzerland) the political crony and crooks do everything they can to tell the people that they are the only one wise and educated enough to decide and that their orders must be followed and that all opposition to their orders is treasonous and seditious and must be banned from the internet! f them!
they want serf or subject, not citizens.
France suffers from many things, and one of them is
colonial disease.While other colonial empires pulled back, France kept exploiting theirs. Even today.
As a result of doing it decade after decade, France became destination for people from their squeezed out countries.
Now if they let people do referendum, im afraid majority could decide about termination of some long term practices of government. Like CFA, or administering any overseas territory, with such problems in administering their own country.
So you mean that france is too corrupt to be able to add more direct democracy like US states?